181: Billy Law

On Episode 181, I'm joined by singer-songwriter Billy Law. Law--who also plays bass for Dallas garage country-punk outfit Ottoman Turks--releases his debut solo album Alone Somewhere on State Fair Records on August 20. In addition, his latest single "I Don't Care If She Ever Comes Home" is out this coming Friday, July 2. During this episode, we talk about the thematic & conceptual elements of Alone Somewhere, recording albums during the past year, playing with Ottoman Turks, growing up in Dallas, and some of our favorite television shows of the 2000s.

This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:01

everyone welcome back to New slang. music journalist Thomas Mooney. We're kicking the week off being joined by Billy long. You may know Billy from the Dallas garage country outfit, Ottoman Turks, but Billy is also a solo artist and singer songwriter in his own right. He's releasing his debut album, alone somewhere on stage for records and a couple of months. August 20, to be exact, he's already shared a handful of preview singles from alone somewhere. Boy smell is just pure all country gold, while it's not right has this really gorgeous slow build, and rise that really harkens back to when Americana was really influenced from indie rock. And it also really makes sense that that song specifically opens the record, you really have that that build up in that tension. And Matter of fact, a new single is going to be out at the end of this week. It's called I don't care if she ever comes home this one it to also has that roller coaster build rise and fall throughout alone together, he really taps into some of that same territory that David Ramirez has, or as I mentioned just a minute ago, like the Americana leaning indie rock stuff from like the early to mid 2000s. Maybe in that like mid Wilco years in war, Josh redder to Dawes to like when fleet foxes was really huge, that era of any rock Americana thing. You can hear that throughout a loan somewhere as well. We talked about some of that music, and we talk about some of the larger themes and the conceptual aspects of the album. And then we eventually drift into a host of pop culture topics as well. It was really enjoyable getting into some of that with Billy. Today's presenting partner is our pals over at Desert door Texas Soto. If you've been listening to new slang for really any amount of time, you'll know that desert door is one of my all time favorite premium, high quality spirits. If you haven't or aren't sure what exactly a sotol is. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that's going to up the game on your liquor cabinet. For starters, the best reference point that I can point you to is to think about tequila or Moscow. Do you feel that Western desert that text is ruggedness? Okay, Soto is like that, but a little bit more refined, smooth and fragrant. It intrigues the palate and offers these hints of vanilla and citrus. There's an earthiness that often sends me right back to my transpac isn't far west Texas roots. There's plenty to love about desert door. For me, it all starts right there. a close second is just how versatile desert door really is. You can go full highbrow and experiment with concocting a variety of cocktails that call for muddling fresh fruit sprigs of time sticks of cinnamon, it's perfect for that world. If you're a little bit more down home, if you've just rolled up the sleeves of your denim Wrangler button up, it's perfect for that as well. If you're just designing something that's short and sweet, it hits the mark every time does adore is genuine and authentically West Texan. It's inherently West Texan. They harvest Soto plants out in the wild and are knowledgeable conservationists at heart. That's obviously something incredibly important to me. They shine a light on what makes West Texas special and unique and worth preserving and keeping it safe from exploitation. Right now, you can find desert door all over Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, and there's budding numbers in places like New Mexico, Arizona, California and Georgia. Best thing you can do is to check out desert door.com to find where desert door is locally. Again, that's desert door.com. If this is your first time listening to new slang, be sure to hit that subscribe button. New slang is available virtually everywhere you can listen to podcasts. If you're listening to it on Apple podcasts. Be sure to leave one of those five star reviews. Be sure to follow us on all your favorite social media platforms. That'd be Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all that kind of stuff. All those links, they will be in the show notes. Go and check out the merch store while you're at it. That is new slang podcast dot big cartel.com over there we have T shirts, shot glasses, stickers, coffee mugs, and a lot more available. And like I said just two seconds ago, all those links they will be in the show notes. Anyway, let's get on into it. Here is Billy law.

Yeah, well, I guess like we're kind of we'll start off with is just the obvious you know, you have this new record that's going to be coming out in August, your solo debut album, and obviously like you've done well. work with other bands, obviously notice, notably Ottoman Turks, you guys have had some, some buzz and some notoriety. What's it say though, as far as you know, putting out your own solo album? I'm sure like you've you've been writing songs, and being been a solo, quote unquote solo artist this whole time as well. What made it right for like, right now as far as getting that ready and releasing it this year?

Billy Law 5:33

Yeah, well, I mean, I've had this specifically this set of songs and this like idea for this record. for a really long time, actually. It's kind of a concept album, about really my kind of getting out of the house the first time and growing up and facing adult situations for the first time, all wrapped around, kind of this story of me on and off again with my now wife. But so this song has really been picked for for a while. And it's a project that we've kind of started and wiped clean stop, start over, I think on three separate occasions at this point. And we actually finished tracking everything for the record, the day before all the lockdown started. So the plan was originally to release in 2020, or that was the goal. But obviously, things kind of went all over the place. And so we just kind of spent our time took our time mixing and mastering back and forth. Marshall Pruett, the guy that engineered and mixed, it just would send me mixes, I'd be like, yeah, let's change this, change that. So we got to kind of take our time with it. And as soon as, as soon as COVID started to dissipate a little bit, his plan was to start releasing stuff I really didn't want to do. You know, as a debut, you don't want to do it, release something. During something like COVID, I think Josh might be made in search, Joshua Walker was able to release something during COVID. But he already kind of had some steam going for him releasing a debut and not being able to play shows or whatnot. I just felt like it was gonna kind of fall flat. So we waited until till afterwards.

Thomas Mooney 7:31

Right? Like, it's so weird. Obviously, we've not had anything ever like this, as far as, you know, this big giant break. And I find it so fascinating as far as how it's affected the industry and songwriters. Because of that, because of the, well, I can't necessarily put this out now or I could but like, you know, you're really gambling, I guess, like you're not setting yourself up as, as like, I guess, like, the best way possible, as you mentioned, like having shows and, you know, being able to, like interact with people, that's what really kind of can push a record. And if you take that away, like you're just kind of not necessarily setting yourself up for failure, but you're setting yourself up for maybe not getting the proper attention. And I don't know, this SIL entire thing has been just really fascinating, in my opinion, as far as like, how artists have approached it. Because, as you know, like, you just mentioned there, the the stops and starts on this record a few times. And then of course, this whole year, anything like making a record is always typically takes longer than most people realize. But then you add in this like, monkey wrench of a sword of, of a situation, and it can just make something where you have all these mixed emotions about it. How did you I guess this? Like? I guess, like my question here is like, how did you stay like true to the two on the path? Because I'm sure like, there's moments of being unsure about, you know, the project as a whole because of the situations at hand.

Billy Law 9:19

Yeah. So I mean, I think I like many artists are pretty wild in their emotions about the projects that they're working on. You go from low to high pretty quickly. I mean, I think most artists, like on a weekly basis go from like, Man, this project can't be stopped like next step, Red Rocks, and then at the same time, like the next day, they're like, why am I even playing music? It makes no sense. Nobody listens to it. Nobody cares. Woe is me. So yeah, when you can compile that in compounded over like four or five years of working on some See here, probably, you don't know how to feel about it anymore. But I was like, you know, the songs are important to me. It's, it's telling a story. And it's a piece of me and time also working on the project. And so, you know, there was really no, I always knew it was gonna be finished, it just was a matter of when really, you know,

Thomas Mooney 10:25

right? What, what about that as far as like, you know, staying attached to the songs, I'm sure like, you're able to do that. But within passes it your I guess your emotions can shift and morph over time? or? Yeah, perception of what, what? what you were who you were at that time?

Billy Law 10:45

Yeah, well, artists, I think also are always ready to move on to the next project too. And that's something that I've struggled with. Because, you know, when you play in a live setting, especially when you're mainly You know, you're playing DFW, a lot goes forward, you're playing, you don't want to play the same songs over and over again, for three years. So you know, a lot of people in Dallas and whatnot, know, a lot of songs that are probably on my second, my second record, because I didn't want to keep beating them over the head with the first albums worth of songs. But like I said, The songs are important. So I knew I was gonna have to kind of stick stick with it. And I'm still excited about working on the second project. But you know, the songs are important to me. And so I just tried to stay on them. And also there's like, this aspect of wanting to like continually mold them and, and craft those songs. And it's like, I really had to just let them be, you know, when you when you see a song, you know, they always say songs are never really finished. And always wanting to like keep working on it and change the arrangement or whatever. But it's like this album, you know, we wanted to just keep it the way that it was at that point in time.

Thomas Mooney 12:02

Yeah, like the knowing when to stop, because like, people will stop at some point. Like, it'll just be forever. Yeah. And we'll just have like, an army of didgeridoos on there, you know? Yeah, like just putting them on stripping it back, putting it back on and strip it. Like, that's just like, probably the process. You just keep on nitpicking is adding stuff on and then subtracting it and then just doing it again. Yeah. lost in the woods, as I think, you know, with any kind of art, I feel like that's what the the biggest, I guess, like, villain in it, in the process, if you will, is, is where it's all stuck in your head, and you don't know exactly where to where it needs to get where it needs to finish.

Billy Law 12:56

Yeah, like you can't assess it, like from the correct point of view, because you're so biased one way or the other.

Thomas Mooney 13:07

Yeah, well, and also, like, you mentioned how, like, obviously, this record, has a conceptual feel the story of that, of you and your wife going back and forth. And I feel like there's like that early, early. 20s feeling, as you mentioned, like the early adult, yes, that was weird. Yeah, like where it is? I don't know, like, maybe I feel like we're all like, we're around the same age as far as the ideas of like, what we were told adulthood was gonna be and versus what it actually is, or like, what our ideas of what our parents thought adulthood was, or like, what their version of adulthood was versus what it is now. I feel like you very much tap into a lot of those uneasy, restless feelings. Yeah, I mean,

Billy Law 14:00

I think I appreciate you saying that. noticing that. I mean, it's definitely like, this is an angsty early 20s. album for sure. I think it's probably, you know, when I was when we were putting it together, I was always, you know, no matter what this record does, I really hope. I feel like it'll connect to some lonely college kid that's like, Oh, I found this guy. Never heard of him. It's Billy wall. There's this one album that he has that I can really connect to. And I'm like, I just feel like it is for those kind of early 20s. Thanks to kids that are trying to put it all together when themselves learn the world around them.

Yeah, was there any was there a touchstone record for you? Obviously, there had to be like, for you as far as that inxi right out of college or in college. I mean, it's that specific field. I don't know if there's one I can point to, I will say, I'm a huge fan of Jimmy world. And clarity, which is one of their earlier records that they put out before they had put out like, the middle and sweetness and whatnot. on Glee. American clarity is an album that I kind of came to in college. And it's it's very like I think it would be considered email, you'd have to ask Paul gemora and Turks is kind of the arbiter of what is email and is not email. But that's definitely one. Actually, Paul and I listen to it every Valentine's Day We hang out on Valentine's Day, we were roommates in college. And we used to spin that record on Valentine's Day because we didn't have girlfriends or anything. So we just drink Miller Lite and listen to that on vinyl. And so we've made a tradition of it. We've done it every year since so we bring wives and girlfriends along now they have to hang out with us on Valentine's Day and listen to clarity by Jimmy world while we all drink beer. So yeah, that's probably the record that I'm trying to get the feeling of Valentine's Day. Clarity Jimmy world. Yeah, I also love the, you know, everyone has like a friend who draws the line of where a certain genre is.

Well, yes, I learned a long time ago. Don't ever, ever, ever try to mess with anyone that knows what they're talking about when it comes to classifying email and pop punk because you will never be you will never be correct.

Thomas Mooney 16:41

Right? Yeah, it's the you'll hear a lot of people and I feel like Weezer is very much like early 80s or 90s. Weezer is Yeah, in the kitchen. Yeah, sure. And then like other people were like, they I guess maybe they have the perception of Weezer always just being like, I don't know, like, make believe and forward or like, maybe forward. So they're like, just what the fuck are you talking about? It's like, No, no, these

Billy Law 17:06

guys are like, yeah, people that are into they're really into like, traditional bluegrass. And I'm doing quotes with my fingers now real country think you think those people are strict? You should just talk to someone about what they you know, is Good Charlotte emo or not? Yeah, it really makes somebody explode.

Thomas Mooney 17:29

Yeah, well, it's it's always like the, the funny thing too about when they, I guess like this, it goes into the whole, like, quote, unquote, did someone sell out or they had just like, corporate kind of plants. When, when the mainstream buys into something that's very indie. And of course, like, emo was one of those genres that had a moment in the sun. I think like, just like General, indie rock, did as well back in like the Oh, five, Garden State era kind of shit. But yeah, that's, that's another argument right there for people as far as like, if they're real and genuine, or if this is just like a, you know, an industry plant of sorts.

Billy Law 18:15

Yeah. And, you know, I used to have a lot of opinions about that kind of stuff. And in the last like, few years, I'm just like, I'm too tired. I know, it, is what it is, and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna stop saying, like, that's bad music or whatever. It's just like, I don't prefer that. I don't like that. I do like this. And it's just an easier way to live than trying to keep everything within its correct classification, and whether it's good or not, you know?

Thomas Mooney 18:46

Yeah, this is gonna be like one of those, like, super nerdy admissions for myself, and that is like, back in, like, around High School. first couple years of college, I tried to, like, always have the, what my perception of the right genre label for all my music and iTunes. And that was, like, always just like, the most exhausting thing ever trying to like create these very specific genre labels. And yeah, in the last, like, I don't know, I don't know, at what point but like, I just turned everything to just say in music. It's made like life a whole lot easier. But as you can imagine, like, you know, I'm very, I think, like, It's weird. It's like, I don't have any less passion, talking about that stuff. But like, it's just like, Where are you putting your energy for it?

Billy Law 19:40

Oh, for sure. I mean, yeah, it's like, you know, it's, it helps to classify things. That's why we have genres in the first place, but when you when it becomes like, I don't know something that you're beating people over the head with. It's a different story, but it is fun to discuss the nuances of john And what makes something something? Yeah, the the gatekeeping aspects of it is yes. I think we learned a lot about opinions. You know, last year in 2020 there are a lot of opinions all over the place. So we've all learned, you know, have your opinions, but they are just opinions. They're yours.

Thomas Mooney 20:23

I'm on the the side of like, let's have like, you don't necessarily have to be like jack Black's character in high fidelity. But like, you know, that's, you can still have like those record store conversations about records that are which is fun. Yeah. This episode of new slang is brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Blue Light has long been the heart and soul of the Lubbock singer songwriter scene, and has been a home away from home for some of Texas Americana, country and rock and roll's finest over the years. Talk with 99.9% of the Songwriters who have come out of Lubbock and the panhandle at large over the past 20 years. And they'll point to just how integral and necessary the blue light is, with live music and touring slowly but surely coming back spots like the blue light or getting back to their usual ways as well. That means music every night of the week. Do you want to see that schedule? Well, I've got a few options for you. One, go to their socials and give them a follow that is at blue light live on Twitter, at the blue light live on Instagram. And of course, by just searching the blue light live on Facebook, they're consistently posting that week's lineup of shows, as well as those heavy hitters that ought to be on your calendar that are coming up on the horizon. To check out blue light lubbock.com as well. There they have the full schedule, the cover charges time, any of those specials that may be happening while they're go check out their merch page. They have a wide range of hats, koozies, hoodies, sweaters, beanies, jackets, and so much more. You can of course get all of your merchant age, when you go see your favorite band, take the stage at blue light, just ask the bartender and they will get you all set. Speaking of which, that's another great way of seeing who's playing there. Just go to the blue light. It's at 1806 Buddy Holly Avenue here in Lubbock, Texas. And of course, again, that is blue light lubbock.com I'll throw a link into the show notes to maybe I'll see you there. Okay, let's get back to the show.

Going back to like when I asked you the question about that record that's kind of like the the Jimmy world answer that you get Yeah, for me. I'm the the record boxer by the National was Oh God. It made me feel like that existential like growing up dread. Yeah, we're like, you got to feel like oh shit. Like I'm not like at the same trajectory as like other people that I graduated with what's wrong with me? And then, you know, later you're like, Oh my god, it doesn't fucking matter. For sure. That is 100% the way it goes. Yeah, that's just like, I don't know for me like it was one of those things where I'd put that record on, like driving around at night. And just completely dissociate. Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, like that. And then like the first two Interpol records were just always on for me back around. I don't know what your Oh, 70508 something like that feels like forever ago.

Billy Law 23:53

Yeah, I rest and rest in peace that, you know, Heartbreaker by Ryan Adams is also kind of that for me. And, yeah, it's like, when you listen to it, though. And then as you get older, you're like, I can still enjoy this, but also realize that I was like really leaning in, trying to feel all of those, like sad. Woe is me feelings, you know? Yeah, it's like we're using those as like, feeling boosters.

Thomas Mooney 24:25

Right? Yeah. Well, I've had a couple of conversations with one of my friends who were we talk about this specifically? More so like literature, when if you're going to read like Catcher in the Rye or like into the wild, it has like a expiration date. Like at some point you're too old to read it to, to quote unquote, get it? Yes. Like, I think like those two like Fight Club, like these are like all like these are, you know, in a lot of ways, still my favorites, but I don't relate to them in a way it the same way. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And we got a buddy who had never read those books. And like now he's like, 40 and it's like, Don't Don't go do that because you're gonna think like, we were fucking idiots. Because we I don't know, like you had like there's an expiration date on a lot of stuff.

Billy Law 25:19

Yeah. Or worse. You're the old guy that's that still thinks that it's exactly groundbreaking. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 25:29

Yeah, that's the there for a while, like, I was reading like Catcher in the Rye, like once a year kind of thing. Or every couple years. back around the teenage years, and at some point, like I read it, I was like, Oh, my God. Like, this guy is like the he's not the anti hero. He's just like the whiny little turd, basically.

Billy Law 25:51

Yeah. Yeah, I, I specifically remember that. That Fight Club is the best example. Because I remember the first time watching that being like, I can't believe that this movie is as incredible as it is like, I mean, wow, how heavy and deep. And I remember the time I watched it when I got older, and I was like, Oh, okay. So they were specifically trying to get people my age to say exactly what I was saying, you know, like it was specifically crafted for people in their, I don't know, late teenagers early 20s to like, Wow, that's really, really something.

Thomas Mooney 26:30

Yeah, like the it's just so profound for for that I do still think that there is something tapping into the the late stage capitalism aspects of the late 90s. Like, oh, yeah, technically, technically, like, I guess that's before like, the.com, boom, or bust or bubble, whatever. But like, it's obviously talking a lot about that about corporate America in so many ways, I guess. Like, there's still some relevancy there. But yeah, it's the it's all the like the anarchie aspects the even just like the language, I still love, like Chuck Chuck Palahniuk as a writer, but like, I've not read any of this stuff in probably like a decade, because it's a different point in your life. Right? Yeah. Did you? Did you ever read any of his stuff? And no, I didn't I yeah, I've only seen that. So. Yeah, well, don't go now. Like this is okay. No, but I'll steer clear. The, I think like, he has like a lot of really interesting stories for his novels. Like he had like this one called choke and like, survivor and it was what I love so much about him was like, the way he used language and like, the pacing of his of his novels, but yeah, it's a different world. I was thinking though, like right now, maybe like, the new version of Fight Club was probably Mr. Robot. I don't know if you've ever watched that TV show.

Billy Law 28:04

No, we I can't even begin to do how much TV I watched last year. Like a really, truly insane mount. And that was on the list, but we never ended up getting to it.

Thomas Mooney 28:18

What, uh, what was on your list as far as like, what you guys well,

Billy Law 28:21

so it was my wife wanted me I kind of missed out I guess on some 90s culture and just some culture in general, I guess. I was raised like church Christ. And so I guess I just admit, my, we weren't allowed to watch sitcoms, because they were, they were stupid. And I just missed out on some, some culture. So my wife had me kind of took me through and we watched, like, all A Boy Meets World. So we watched a lot of stuff like that, like I had never seen last. I know, that's not 90s. But it's still like a piece of culture that I had never, never watched. Me and we finished, we started and finished a bunch of shows. But we focused a lot on stuff like that, that I just missed out on. And now I feel a little bit more culturally relevant.

Thomas Mooney 29:17

It's funny how, like, last at one time, was like, the most important thing on TV.

Billy Law 29:23

Yeah, and you know what, it was a good, it was good. Um, but I TV just worked differently back then. You know, it doesn't work the same way as it does now. You know, because people would, you know, they had to wait for the next episode. And so everyone was just talking about it. And, and that was, I guess, kind of around the streaming era to kind of just like kind of started I think, right.

Thomas Mooney 29:49

It was around. I know like one of the major pivot pivoting points, I guess would be early streaming. And then like there was the writer strike at one point. between seasons, so like, I guess like those first three seasons, maybe two or three seasons. It's also like super long, like all those there's, like 24 episode seasons. Yeah, people don't really do that now unless you're like that just like the sitcom kind of thing. Whatever the whatever is like today's friends maybe, I don't know what show that would be but yeah, like everything's like so much smaller and compact where it's like that 10 to 12 episode thing. And I think like, they're like, those final seasons are like in the the 14 to 16 range, where it's like more of an emphasis on Let's, uh, let's make these a type pact and add in an A event. And I don't like that what's so funny about that show was like, there's so many fucking theories and there is so much to like, unpack. And that's like, the the little part that you missed was like, just go into like, last forums and trying to figure out, yeah, monster.

Billy Law 31:00

Yeah, I think so. And it was like, a little bit more like, David Lynch's is like, my favorite, like Twin Peaks is, if I get to choose one piece of art, like forever, it would just be like, the Twin Peaks series. And, you know, I like definitely, there was a lot of like, kind of surreal stuff in loss. But it was all a little bit, it was easier to explain, I think, you know, or at least have theories that actually explain it, not just like, have random thoughts, like stuff with the Lynch's stuff is just kind of like, you can kind of have any theory and it will fit maybe. So I can imagine, just like, forums were huge at that time, I could imagine them just running like improving totally wild.

Thomas Mooney 31:44

Yeah, we would have, like watch parties, where we just like, binge the entire season before the next season started. Just to have like that, you know, that refresher. And we would like, it's so weird, like, having that feeling of like, we would have like these conversations about a fucking TV show for like, an hour, hour and a half after every episode tried to like what we talked about as far as what we picked up and like, yeah, like, there's some really, really great high drama in there as well. But I don't know, like, I don't know if like loss works. it like this, the general story obviously would, but the data is a little different.

Billy Law 32:27

For sure, they'd have to make, make some changes. And then everything that came out in the 2000s, like, early 2000s is so early 2000s, it's hard to explain, like, I can't be the music, like just everything around that time period fashion. Like it's just, it can only be in that time period, there's something very specific about it. Right, it's

Thomas Mooney 32:55

the like, I know, like with loss, specifically with Grey's Anatomy, like the soundtracks are very important. As far as again going to that like just generic indie rock, feel. The clothing the the fashion, as you mentioned, I it's weird because like, I think, thinking back I think of it like more is like almost 90 stuff, but it's definitely not 90s people would feel like that if

Billy Law 33:20

they were not right. And, and I always think I always say, and I'm sure I'm wrong. I know nothing about fashion, but you know, all of the decades, come back at some point in time, but I don't know if they're, like, it's really kind of like an amalgamation of all of the worst things from the 90s they got to survive and then we added on some more stuff like nothing fit. It was Yeah, bad.

Thomas Mooney 33:46

Yeah, like the fit thing. The like, I know, like, I mean, I I was wearing American Eagle, like, Hollister

Billy Law 33:54

literally literally from like, head to toe. Like even my underwear would like match my polo shirt and stuff like it was. It was just a different time.

Thomas Mooney 34:03

It's really weird as far as these like American Eagle Hollister, like these big companies. I think like everyone was informed by the people, how people dressed on like, Laguna Beach in TV. And they were just in the middle of fucking Texas. For me in the middle of West Texas, and everyone's wearing like the two polo shirts together or like a lot of jell o in the hair, the puka shells and it's like nothing is like Yeah,

Billy Law 34:35

really make any sense. And you know, at that time, it was like man if you didn't have like an animal on your on your polo shirt, like representing what brand it was like, it was embarrassing and now I'm like, man, I don't want don't put your branding on anything that I own. Like, right? The

Thomas Mooney 34:51

the advertising aspect I remember pretty early on being like, I This feels like I'm just advertising. I'm just like the walking billboard for you guys.

Billy Law 35:01

I don't know, I guess I wasn't as smart as you were. I was like, man, if I could just get a cost shirt that I own a Lacoste shirt, man, that would really be cool.

Thomas Mooney 35:11

Yeah, well, I don't know. It's probably also because like, my parents were just, no, you're not gonna enjoy this in five years and just kind of beat me over the head with that kind of stuff. Yeah, I don't know. The I'm just thinking back about like that whole. That era as far as TV shows that I didn't watch until later. And that would probably be like the wire, which feels so different than that feels like more like late 90s or 90s. Yeah, it does. It's weird how those things bleed over. Yeah, like that. Just I don't know. It's probably more because of the I don't know, like, it was an adult show. I guess maybe. I don't know.

Billy Law 35:55

That's, that's a good theory. Because it was kind of like out of bounds as growing up now. It's like no, that's just the best show.

Thomas Mooney 36:03

Yeah, that's a that's probably like my all time favorite is the wire and I always end up like, it's always on social media where I'll that's like my go to show as far as analogies go. Like oh, yeah, parachute to the wire or like, this is like this scene from the wire. Now that we've you brought it back last? Maybe I'll transition to just making last analogies though. Yeah, it's time it's time to go back to tear roots. Yeah. You mentioned obviously growing up in Dallas. Yeah. And then obviously you've been in a Ottoman Turks and all these bands as far as like State Fair records. That I feel like all this stuff right now is really really cool coming out of Dallas as far as the sound and like this indie rock to singer songwriter to all country Americana feel. This, I guess, like to to describe, it would be a scene if you will. What's it been, like, I guess seeing this kind of grow from in this like really organic, you know, grassroots kind of way.

Billy Law 37:17

I mean, it's been cool when I was growing up. is when like, country was really like taking over. And that was definitely the hip thing to be making is like if you don't sound like I don't know. Wilco or vocal vocal, Tupelo, then you know, I don't want to listen to it. And there was a lot of rockabilly and stuff like that going on. And I just feel like in the past 10 years or so, it's it's diversified a ton. And it's just been cool to watch honestly. And I don't think you know, a lot of the venues that used to be like well, this is you know, the type of music that we have at that venue or this venue or this venue don't like hold true to those same genres anymore like they're willing to have like eight singer songwriter nights tonight and tomorrow we've got a laser show and psychedelic indie pop you know

Thomas Mooney 38:19

yeah, I think like that's that's happening in general especially like I obviously like you guys aren't in the you guys wouldn't ever be described as the quote unquote, Texas country stuff. But you've seen a lot of like, bands change over there as far as what is being considered or like, what I will long story short, what I'm saying is like 30 years ago, a lot of these bands they wouldn't be playing these Texas country venues because they didn't sound like Texas country at that time. And I think like what's happening just across genre across the at least here in Texas I don't know.

Billy Law 38:59

Yeah, no, it is I still I still think country country artists have some work to do as far as letting people in I think that that can still get pretty cliquish. Yeah, the bigger the bigger the hat The more you know about them. But um, but yeah, overall I mean, I think that a lot of people are like, Hey, I'm friends with that person won't be playing shows even if the genre is that they know exactly on point.

Thomas Mooney 39:36

I want to break one more time to talk about our pals over at Desert door and offer up a quick Thomas Mooney, cocktail minute, as I've said probably 100 times by now, by no means am I a seasoned mixologist or bartender but these have been some of my desert door go twos. For starters, let's just go with the tried and true range water, pop the top off at topo Chico, take a good swig. Now pour in some desert door and top it off by throwing it if you lime wedges never fails. This one. It's so simple, it probably doesn't even count. But again, pretty foolproof. do the exact same thing, but get you a Mexican Coca Cola. I guess you can go with a regular one, but you're really cutting yourself short if you don't opt for the Mexican import variety. Alright, here's the change up you've been waiting for desert door sangria. This one is prime for when you have company coming over and you aren't wanting to just be over there making six different drinks at a time. What you'll need is some desert door. Obviously, a bottle of red wine, honey, boiling water, apple cider, apple cider vinegar, some cinnamon sticks, a couple of apples in some time sprigs. I know that may sound intimidating, but trust me it's worth the prep. And honestly, it's pretty easy. For starters, get you a Punchbowl, add that honey, those cinnamon sticks and the boiling water together. Now you're going to want to stir that all up and let it cool down for about an hour. So remember, patience is a virtue. Once that's done, add some desert door and stir vigorously. Now add the one the cider and the vinegar and continue stirring until it's equally mixed. Now slice those apples up and toss them in. Put in those time sprigs as well. Now you can pour that over some eyes and you have a modified sangria chef's kiss. Anyway, those have been some of my favorite go twos as of light. And remember, desert door is as versatile as vodka and more refined, smooth, complex and intriguing than tequila. It's rich and balanced. And whether you decide to keep it simple or want to experiment. Desert door is that perfect Texas spirit. There's plenty more recipes over at Desert door.com as well check out the show notes for a link. All right, let's get back to the episode. Yeah, you're right on the the diversity as far as the inclusion. I boos you'd probably like put an asterisk there and say, as long as you're like a white guy, right? That's what's been happening right now. But yeah, like, there's still plenty of work as far as that's and that's been like a really interesting conversation that you've I've seen at least on on a lot of social media as far as you know, what, what is country music? And like, why is it only these people being allowed to participate and a lot of work to be done still on that. But I think like there's that a long time, there was no dialogue, there was no,

Billy Law 42:52

yeah, well, you know, these, this is this brain of country and this is that this is, you know, these Texas country guys are going to be different than US National country guys. And it's just, it's getting, it's getting better. But I think, you know, maybe it's just me, I feel like I don't want to say that I play an extremely diverse type of music. But you know, if you listen to the record, there's not really one genre that you can pin it down as and I'm always kind of struggling to figure out like you know, which came to my head it's because it's like, you know, Americana with, with some maybe some indie rap sensibilities or whatnot, but it's like, do I know which circle do I fit into? You know?

Thomas Mooney 43:40

Yeah, that whole thing where it's so weird, like, the more we use Americana, the the more or the less I know what it means, right? Yeah, I

Billy Law 43:48

have no idea at this point. What Americana really even means except for like, maybe it's got some singer songwriter folk. Adjacent. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's

Thomas Mooney 44:01

like the the safety net label. Like if you can't think of like what exactly it is, it's like, well, just let's just call it Americana.

Billy Law 44:10

Yeah, it's like I all I think all it really means is that person has listened to at least one one country record in their life. Right. Like, like, the only only thing that you can nail down?

Thomas Mooney 44:22

Yeah, I think it's so like, that's what was happening. As far as I don't know, maybe it's always been this way. As far as there's some artists who you just don't know, like the major labels back in the 80s or 70s that know where to put them. As far as like, you know, like Lyle Lovett or Robert Roy Keane back in the 80s Yeah, you know, like, Oh, they got like these little bit of like, being signed on to labels in Nashville, but like, That didn't sound they didn't sound like you know, top 40 country. Right, but like, did they They also fit on like the I don't know, the the singer songwriter circuit at the time, like the more like the the folk kind of Laurel Canyon thing that happened in back in the 70s. Like out of there. I don't know, it's such a weird thing as far as what how you are like pitch to an audience? Because that's

Billy Law 45:23

Yeah, it's like a big deal. And it's not a big deal at the same time. You know, I think when we don't allow ourselves to think too much about it, we go into it like, Oh, well, that's a, that's like a pretty straightforward, country guy. And he's playing in front of them. So we can't put someone that's a little different than that after him. But I mean, if you ask anyone, like, what type of music do you listen to? Their answer is always like, everything. whether that's true or not, like they still have, like somebody that listens to country music listens to other stuff. So like, they can't appreciate that, you know,

Thomas Mooney 45:59

right. I always looked back at being here in Lubbock. since high school, basically, where it always felt like with, with bills, for shows, there would be a lot of diversity just because of necessity, because like, there wasn't a whole lot of bands. So like, there would always be just shows of where maybe if this was like, in a bigger city, you would have more options to throw on three all country bands, but like, Oh, well, there's only like this one all country band, and we need like a, you know, if we're just doing a three person bill, a three band bill, it'd be like, well, this guy, these band, this band is more of like that REM version of like Southern rock. And then this band is like, punk band. And this band is like doing like calponin kind of stuff. And like he just kind of it was more out of necessity, and and that whole thing of what we're all buddies, so let's get it's, I don't know, I always I feel like again, like, as he's mentioned, right there, it's not as big of a deal. We don't, you never have to explain this to other musicians. But like, try to explain it to, you know, Johnny who works at so and so. Trying to give the elevator pitch of what you sound like, can go forever. You mentioned like how, obviously this record kind of being informed by the some country stuff being informed by indie rock, singer songwriter, I always kind of go when listening to this record, as far as the melodies go, there is a lushness on a lot of the songs, especially like on like the album closer, slowly, it feels like a big build up for that song. Yeah, and I guess like talk, can you talk a little bit about like, finding those melodies, finding that the right Sonic palette, for the record, as far as it being a little bit more on the last slide and the that build up? And, you know, using some different I guess sounds then the quote unquote, country world? Yeah, well, I mean,

Billy Law 48:16

I, it was never my intention, or desire for that matter to, to play like, straight country music. And I think you know, when you play as under the name of Billy wall, that's always people's assumption automatically is like, Alright, but to get someone four or five country, and I love country music, I always have. I grew up with it. It's a big part of my musical background, but it's one I don't think that I write consistently great country songs in I just do don't have any desire to be pigeonholed as just country music. And I know I wanted the album to feel I want it to be very moody, that was kind of the thing. The theme that we were always talking about is like, I want this to rise and fall. I want I want to do things with the songs that aren't just super straightforward. And so yeah, I mean, right. But also, like, we got to have some pedal still on it, you know, have upright bass on some of these songs. And so yeah, it's really just kind of like mixing all those things together and seeing what comes out. Yeah, you know, like,

Yeah, well,

Thomas Mooney 49:41

how informed are you? As far as, like, we were talking about like a lot of these throughout this conversation about the, the, I guess, like that top layer of culture and how that can like, inspire and influence a sound. What about like as far as like your your peers? What what what how is like, you know, playing with Ottoman Turks or like Josh, his solo stuff influenced or affected the way you approach music? Um,

Billy Law 50:13

well in a huge way, I mean, I wouldn't be writing music if I, if I hadn't known Nathan. I mean, I joined Turks in high school. And I had Josh, who wasn't interested at the time had just tried to get me into playing bass so that I can play with him in a band at some point. But I started playing bass with Nathan. And, you know, I didn't play guitar. And I didn't really think about writing music, though. My mom was a was like a professional jazz singer when I was growing up. So music was always a part of my life. But writing was never really that much. It was never really a thought in my mind. And, you know, Nathan is just such a good songwriter, and he was even in high school. And he kind of pushed me and helped me kind of develop that. And in Josh, too, I mean, I probably wouldn't. I mean, he kind of taught me how to play guitar, taught me my first few chords and whatnot, and always invited me out to play when he was hosting open mics and whatnot. And so they've been huge influences. For me, and I mean, we know with Joshua, we know with Nathan, they're not really trying to write straight country music either Josh, maybe more so than Nathan. But he's definitely putting a twist on it whenever he can.

Thomas Mooney 51:37

Yeah, like, that's a it's always like, it feels like country but like, it's always feels like it's out of left field. You know, and it's like, obviously, a good thing. There's like a little bit of, there's something that's different.

Billy Law 51:51

Yeah, it's just not always so like, straightforward, I think is kind of the main thing is there's no, I don't wanna say that country's not deep and layered because it absolutely is maybe more so than most other music, but I think there's always just a lot to divide into with. with Josh.

Thomas Mooney 52:11

Yeah, the the the thing that I feel like he gets every time as far as what what country music is, is like that high and lonesome. Yes. He gets that right. every damn time. Yeah, but like as far as the way he will get that into a song always feels a little different. And there's a little bit of like that. You know, I guess like we always romanticize like what a Honky Tonk was, I don't know if there's any like, honky tonks the way like we think of it as far as the the 70s version of a Honky Tonk, or the 80s version there. I don't know if that's still around. But like, it feels like that's where it comes from. He's tapping into that, but like, also, you know, through maybe some lenses of like, a dive bar, and like, the actual people you would find in, in these places. Sure. So, yeah. What's it been like, as far as, you know, seeing that rise of Ottoman Turks and seeing like, you know, you guys being a band for a while a local band being obviously you can include this with Josh, as far as getting that notoriety outside of you know it cuz like, obviously, obviously, you guys have been grinding for a while. But now you're seeing the names and like the Rolling Stones, and the Texas monthlies, and, and whatnot.

Billy Law 53:36

It's amazing. It's been, it's been incredible. I mean, I'm, I mean, if the whole church thing, like I was in Houston, I moved to Houston after I graduated college and worked in construction for a while, and, and then in like, 2017, I came back with the idea that hey, Turks is gonna find me, like, give this a go. And I was like, cool. And I've been working on some solo stuff. So like, I'll just hit music full time, and that would be great. And I came back. And we basically it looks almost broke. It's like going out and do the thing. So I was like, Well, I guess, I guess it's time to do some solo stuff or whatnot. And then we got one gig offered to us at one of the theaters Granada theater in Dallas. And it was like, Oh, that was really fun. And then record label happened to be there. And then we got a record deal. And then you know, Josh had gotten a record deal and just it. It really, I don't know. It's weird going back and thinking through all of the things that happened. It was just one uncommon l after the other that was falling and it just, I don't know, like, I can't believe it. It's been really cool to watch happen. And I've had some some weird stuff happen with my solo stuff too. It's just completely out of the blue. Like, in 2019. I still I obviously I hadn't released anything. And I hadn't really announced that we were working on anything either. I just got like a random email and they were like, it was Verizon theater, which is, which is a big theater in Grand Prairie. And they were like, Hey, are you available on Friday? I was like, Yeah, what's up? Like, do you want to open for America? Who? I mean, I literally thought it was a joke. But I mean, I didn't think it was a joke. But I didn't get a ton of information as an opener. I didn't really matter all that much. But I was like, I think I'm opening for America. I like didn't promote it or anything, cuz it's like, it might be like an America cover band, or a tribute band, like in the parking lot of resin theater. So um, but I think that that's happening. And then I ended up you know, opening for America. It's just like, weird things like that happen all the time. I feel like in the music industry, and you're lucky if you get if you get them consecutively instead of just one, you know, right?

Thomas Mooney 56:11

Yeah. The that whole thing of the maybe the the perception on the outside looking in. I think a lot of times we think of like bands just blowing up or artists blowing up. And, oh, where do they come from? And it's like, well, they've been working there yet, under the serve under the surface, totally. And then all of a sudden they catch that wave. And I think like you can, I think like this is probably going to happen, maybe some would Vincent no Emerson with this new record. Yeah. You know, I can't remember what that records called. But the very first record that he put out that I guess it's not on any wear anymore, I remember was like Road Runner on it. Yeah, I can't remember which one it was. It's, it's, it's not like is the last record the one with a even women in country? Oh, yeah. Fried chicken. Even one? Yeah, it's not that one. Like he had one before that that someone had sent me. And I guess like, my entire point is like, these people have been around? And you know, yes, it's for sure. It's a, it's like the, again, like I always talk about like it being you know, that there's a little bit of talent that goes, everyone has like to make it has to have a little bit of talent. And I don't think like anyone who's even like people you don't even like, there's still like a little bit of talent in there. It's that and then it's like, it's the hard work and like, it's the all those things that you would obviously think sometimes it's just a little bit of luck to like being in the right place. Yeah, absolutely. The the consistency, so yeah, it's, uh,

Billy Law 57:48

I'm right at the same time, like people are. I mean, like, people that are in the scene, like, we've all just been waiting for events at Neil Anderson to really pop off. Like, I mean, I guess in my mind, I'm like, he's been doing well, for sure. A few years now. But yeah, like most people probably never heard of him. Even though he's got like Jason momoa. Talking him up all the time. You know, like, Jason mo is big fan of Coulter wall. And it's like Neil Anderson, it's like, yeah, you really know, they've been working forever. I know that that was I'm pretty sure. I was listening to podcast with Margo price. And she was I mean, I was playing for, like, 10 years before anything really happened. And I think people on the outside oftentimes are like, they don't realize that that's how, that's how that works.

Thomas Mooney 58:34

Yeah, what and this goes to like, I think sometimes we, you always think of like the, I guess artists who blow up in the way of, oh, they're 1819. And all of a sudden, they got a record deal, all that kind of stuff. I think we always kind of point to them as thinking like, that's the standard. That's like the norm. And it's not really at all like, you know, all the there's plenty of people that you can point to that go. Like, I'm looking at like a redheaded stranger on my wall right now by Willie Nelson. That was like his first record that actually it was like, made him a massive name. And he was like, 42 or something like that.

Billy Law 59:19

Yeah, I mean, cuz he's been in Nash. I mean, he was he'd been on TV and all that kind of stuff before that. It just hadn't like, I don't know, he hadn't hit it just right. I guess yet. He was still clean cut and whatnot. And yeah, it is weird how that works. It's like even if someone's been around and honestly been successful for a while. They might not be successful on the public side. might take longer for that.

Thomas Mooney 59:45

Yeah, it's the what I was calling about, like, as far as growing up, thinking that if you were a household name, if you're a musician, like you're a millionaire, like it didn't matter. Just like Some guy, everyone was like the Alan Jackson of whatever that world it was, you know? And it's like, yeah, like, there's a lot of middle ground there's like, and that's, it's really okay to be in the middle ground. Not everyone's gonna be, you know Elvis Presley. So plenty of like space out there. Yeah, it's like, and that's not even like limiting the goalposts or like pulling the goalposts and it's just like, the, that's just how it is like, that's, that's fine. So, not all of us are gonna be like, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna have like a massive book deal.

Billy Law 1:00:38

I mean, we might one day, I hope, but only after you worked for 20 years and had a successful podcast, then, you know, it's like, but people might not get to know you until the book thing happens. And then you become that to them. Yeah, the aisle. Whenever I write my Fight Club, that's once you write your Fight Club. Yes, absolutely, then that's when it's really going to come off for you. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 1:01:08

But, uh, yeah, anyways. Yeah. I've been really enjoying this conversation. I really, I have to, like this new record that you're putting out things like your, again, like you're tapping into a lot of these emotions that I think a lot of us deal in the 20s in your 20s that maybe we don't talk about it.

Billy Law 1:01:31

Oh, man, thank you so much for saying that. That's, that's high praise. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Well, that's good. Yeah. Well,

it's been great talking to you, too. Man. I enjoyed listening to the podcast for a while now. And hopefully, I'll get on over to the blue light at some point.

Thomas Mooney 1:01:49

Yeah, that's what I think like that would be a great idea. As far as I guess, like the one of those. I'm sure like, you guys have done this plenty of times. But the the Joshua Ray Walker, Ottoman Turks, Billy law,

Billy Law 1:02:01

triple. Doesn't happen as much as you think. But man, we could. We've been talking about how like, it would be the most efficient tour of all time. Yeah. And the projects are so wildly different. I think that people wouldn't be like, Alright, I got it. This is the third version of the same day and I get it. But it's perhaps the efficiency of it would be you know, we all we all get along great too, but

Thomas Mooney 1:02:38

alright, that is it. For this one. Be sure to check out alone somewhere out August 20. by Billy law, check out. I don't care if she ever comes home out this Friday. Be sure to stop on over and visit our pals over at Desert door and the blue light live. Give us a follow and like and all that kind of stuff on social media stuff. And yeah, I'll see y'all later this week for another episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai