082: Hailey Whitters
On Episode 82, I'm joined by singer-songwriter Hailey Whitters. She called me last week to discuss her second full-length album, the sonically charming The Dream. While sitting in her Nashville backyard, we spoke about how growing up in rural Iowa has had an impact on her songwriting style, working with the likes of Lori McKenna and Brandy Clark, her first official co-writing session with Kacey Musgraves, the honest hardships of her song "Ten Year Town," The Dixie Chicks, and where many of the songs of The Dream came.
This episode's presenting partner is The Blue Light Live and Wicker's Mesquite Smoked Jalapeno Jelly.
Interview Transcript
Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.
Thomas Mooney 0:02
everyone welcome to new slang. I'm Thomas Mooney, and you're listening to episode number 82, where I am joined by singer songwriter Hailey Whitters, we spoke on the phone for about an hour last week while she was enjoying the pleasant weather in her backyard in Nashville, Hailey released her second full length album, this past February. It's called the dream. And I know this probably doesn't sound like the compliment that I wanted percent mean it to be but for this entire, I guess part of this new year, it's kind of been my go to album that I put on when I'm just not really sure what else to listen to. It's been this and Katie Pruitt's expectations. I just have really loved both of these records. The dream is just this incredible showcase of Hailey's talents as a performer, artist and songwriter. While there's definitely this diverse blend of songs on here, she maintains the pull that connective string throughout and both style mood and in general theme, are these incredibly intimate ballads on air, like the Faker, Janice at the hotel bar and living for the dream. They're incredibly revealing. She lets her guard down in a lot of ways. And these moments, you just feel the vulnerability in her voice. And then on like the other side, there are these like super huge powerhouse country pop numbers like dream girl, heartland and all the cool girls. People always kind of think of pop as a quote unquote dirty word, but no one really should think about it that way. You know, having pop sensibility is an incredibly important thing as an artist, and Hailey just knows her strengths really well. And just the songs have just the soup, sugary, sweet kind of courses that just become pleasant earworms, I found myself just humming along to them even though they're not on. One of the things I really like about Hailey's writing is that she's really gifted at finding these clever hooks. And he's like, new takes on familiar phrases. Just even like getting this in the title, you can tell there's a dream girl in heartland that really do that. But what I really love about Hailey's writing on this record is just how realistic and honest it really is, we come up all these moments in our lives, where we can just easily become jaded, because things aren't working out the way that we kind of originally envisioned them going. Hailey is undoubtedly gone through her fair share of let downs, you know, just listened to the song 10 year town. It's about those hardships of trying to make it into the music business, specifically in Nashville. But you know, in life, I feel, you're always gonna end up hitting these roadblocks. And it's a, it's you trying to figure out how to get around them. So there is that universal appeal and that song, it just kind of applies to anything in life. What I think is really important, and kind of just essential to 10 year town is how she's optimistic. Despite the struggles, there's always a little bit of this light at the end of the tunnel, you kind of get the sense that Hailey's even trying to remind herself to not give up on her dreams, that it's okay to have dreams. And it's okay to let those dreams morph and shift over time. You know, because like Hailey's not turned into this giant country music star. Since moving to the natural place, she has carved out her own spot. And that's something she's turned into this rising songwriter with just a growing catalogue of songs and co writes with a bunch of veteran songwriters. And she's obviously a budding artist in her own right. The dream is really about that journey of that hard work those ups and downs, the setbacks and the breaks. And yeah, like the luck, that's all involved. What she does on this record is kind of give us a little bit of insight on all of those aspects. She balances it by having the youthful optimism and experience realist. You know, there's, there's a lot of both sides of that coin on on the dream, I highly encourage you to go check out the dream. If you haven't already, go buy it. Go buy some t shirts, you know, everyone's obviously not touring at the moment. So go buy merch from your favorite songwriters in general, but if you haven't checked out the dream by Hailey Whitters, obviously go do so listen to the rest of this podcast as well. Okay, so something happened the other day that's really relevant for the times. My friend Charlie stout, he called me up and he had this idea. I guess I should backtrack. If you don't know Charlie, he's a Lubbock songwriter, and photographer. You've probably seen some of his work. And you probably have heard some of the songs over the years.
Obviously, this pandemic has affected just about every person in the world by now. In our world, it's meant all of these musicians and artists just stomping on the brakes and just putting a pause on live music. bars and venues have shut down and tours and shows have just stopped writing their voice canceled, postponed, all that kind of stuff. And as you've probably seen, people have just adapted to living like this songwriters have been playing their shows in their living rooms on Instagram and on Facebook for nearly two months now. they've survived on these virtual shows with Venmo and PayPal tips. But there is this group of people who haven't had the same ability to do the same thing as the songwriters, even though they've been just as affected. And that's bar staff, you know, bartenders and bar backs and door guys and sound engineers and everyone involved within the the music business when it comes to the live performance aspects. They have all been halted as well, you know, they're not able to virtually get you a beer. So Charlie called me and he had this idea about how can we do something for our friends who work at our beloved blue light here in Lubbock. They've taken care of us all. Over the years, you know, they've undoubtedly taken care of every songwriter and band who have graced that stage and walk through those doors on a nightly basis Monday through Saturday, often sometimes on Sundays. So we brainstormed and threw out a few ideas. And the one that made the most sense was a compilation of songs recorded by 50 songwriters with blue light, in love it ties 50 artists who kind of paid their dues on that stage. So much of the cultural significance when it comes to blue light. It revolves around Monday nights, that songwriter night. It's songwriters breaking in original material with just their acoustic guitar and vocals. And that stage really has been a testing ground for so many songwriters that you know, in love. So with that in mind, Charlie and I, we contacted 50 songwriters are technically 49 since Charlie does contribute a song here himself, and we saw if they wanted to send in a song that was in a, quote, unquote, demo, or workstyle type of cut, you know, I can't really take like 5050 credit with this one or anything like that. Charlie has undoubtably done a whole lot of the heavy lifting. But you know, I've helped out in my own way of helping contact people and getting things organized and whatnot, just having that blank whiteboard of ideas. So after a week or so of organizing all this, we present Monday night lights, a 50 song compilation featuring 50, blue light songwriters, for convenient price of $50. Just think of it as like a, a weekend bar tab that you haven't paid in a minute. I'll post the tracklist link as well here with this episode since you know, it's just not really probably good podcasting for me to just read 50 names here, but I'll say that it's a really nice mix of old school Lubbock blue light guys like Josh Abbott and Wade Bowen and William Clark green and there's like that middle ground of artists like Ross Cooper and cleddau Cordero, flatland Calgary dawn Domino, you have your mix of blue light singer songwriter competition winners like Juliet McConkey and Isaac Hoskins, Zach Wilkerson and Kenneth O'Meara, the first blue light songwriter winner. And then of course, there's a good dose of young up and comers who are still cutting their teeth on Monday nights. People like Slade Coulter and Morgan Radford, Darby Sparkman and pick his earlier papers in the rooftops. And of course, there's a lot of the usual suspects mixed in. So all the proceeds of this record, they go straight to the blue light staff, those bartenders who serve you those barbacks who pick up after you the door guys and greet you up at the front of the sound guys to make sure your favorite bands are sounding right. Those basically, who make the wheels go round at blue light. Monday night lights will go live this Friday, May 1, I'll be throwing a link on all social media platforms once things are finalized, but I wanted you all to get ready for this as soon as possible so you'd have it in mind. As always, follow me Thomas Mooney on twitter at underscore new slang. do so on Instagram as well. If you want you can go give us a like on Facebook at New slang. Of course, subscribe on it tunes give a five star rating. It really does help.
Okay, I think that just about wraps it up here is the interview with Hailey Whitters. Yeah, so I guess like, we have to start with just the the obvious, you know, you release this record, right before a pandemic, you know, you had all these tour dates and everything lined up to support this record. All of a sudden, this happens, like, what was like the initial thing that kind of went through your mind as far as how this record was going to be affected by the lack of touring in the pandemic, and etc.
Hailey Whitters 10:45
Um, probably, you know, worry, I wouldn't say I went into, like, full blown panic mode, because I know, like, you know, at the end of the day, this is not a major problem compared to what a lot of other people are facing. But it is still very scary to like, you know, I felt like we had built up to this place where, you know, we have this amazing year and rollout kind of plan for this record, and then it all got kind of either cancelled or postponed. And so it does feel a little scary just to, you know, you wonder, like, Am I gonna lose momentum? Are people gonna stop talking about it? And I do feel lucky, because I feel like, you know, we were able to get it out. Before all of this started. And, you know, people, it seems people are still listening, and, you know, maybe even listening more if, you know, because everyone has some downtime. So, I think, you know, I tried to remain optimistic, and, you know, it's out of my control. But I do think, you know, I think that, you know, I am lucky in the way that, you know, people are still listening, it appears and, you know, we just got to keep moving forward. So, um, yeah. It is a little scary, though.
Thomas Mooney 12:11
Yeah, it, I can imagine, it's one of those things to where you feel like you, in a lot of ways, push your chips in, and then all of a sudden, it's like, everyone tells you Oh, we have to pause for a period of time.
Hailey Whitters 12:25
Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is a pretty scary thing. And, you know, I'm glad that we were able to get this out before and it could be a lot worse. I think so, you know, I'm glad that it's out there. And people are able to kind of dive in and people, some people are making it their quarantine record, which has been kind of nice, but I'm just doing the best you can I guess, you know?
Thomas Mooney 12:47
Yeah. So obviously, you know, social distancing, staying inside and all this stuff. Is that like, in a in a way, does that make you focus a little bit more on songwriting? Is it? Is this even like a climate for songwriting? And or, I guess, like, what's your kind of your, how is that affected on that front?
Hailey Whitters 13:09
Yeah, I'm actually I feel like, I'm writing more during quarantine than when I'm not in quarantine, the Music Row, kind of just approach everyone's doing right now is they're using zoom or FaceTime, Skype to go, right. And it was a little weird at first, and it's still kind of weird if you're like riding with somebody new, but, you know, now everyone's just, it's kind of the new norm. And so I log on to zoom like, I don't know, four or five times a week, and co write with people. And so it's been really fruitful. And we're getting a lot of songs. And, you know, I kind of, I can tend to be like very much an introvert and a homebody. So, for me, once I kind of got over and I still have, like, you know, my moments of like anxiety or stress or whatever, but once I can kind of like quiet that and just accept the situation like I really get into, I really kind of thrive, I feel like at home, you know, just downtime to you know, read or be writing songs. I've been listening to so many records right now. Starting to dabble and like painting and, you know, going full Midwest mom over here with the arts and crafts. But, um, you know, it's just like, trying to use this time to really get creative and kind of, you know, indulge in all of those, you know, outlets that I don't really have a lot of time to do when I'm touring full time or, you know, working record. So. I mean, it's been it's been kind of nice, you know, like, I feel Lucky that I'm safe, and everyone I know is safe and healthy so far, and like, you know, I'm just trying to use this time to kind of shut the world out, I guess and like, go to the well and try and find some inspiration and be creating. Right?
Thomas Mooney 15:16
Yeah, I tend to be an introvert as well. Yeah, you know, I have like one little brother, but he's 14 years younger than me. So I kind of jokingly said, that, you know, being a single child, most of my life has just like, shaped me and made me perfect for the situation, because I'm just like, fine at home. But, you know, I think the eye opening aspect has been realizing just how many of my friends are the exact opposite. And they need that interaction. And it's just, I guess, it's so easy to fall into not doing anything, though, you know what I mean? It's, that's what I've had to figure out is like, obviously, just, I don't just like going into more, I guess, ideas and focusing in on Yeah, stuff. You know, you mentioned painting, I've always been interested in how, I guess, like, one of the things about songwriters is, you know, deep down is it's an artistic outlet. And I guess the, those other channels of where that creativity goes, have you always kind of been a painter? Have you always kind of done stuff like that in the the outside of songwriting?
Hailey Whitters 16:33
No, so I am not a great painter, like my grandma used to paint a lot. And so I think that's where I've gotten this, like, you know, interest for curiosity for it. And now that I have the time, I've been like, sitting down and going for it. And it's like, I mean, it could be rough, but it's fun. And it's nice to see yourself, like, get better at something, you know, I'm creative. I took like a painting class last year, actually. And it's really interesting, because I was a total beginner. And like, there were eight of us in the class, and everyone else was really good. And so it was the first time like, I had felt that creatively vulnerable in a long time. And it's so easy, like, my mind instantly was like, How the fuck do I get out of this class? Get out of here, I started sweating. I was like, I don't want people to see my work. Like, I was just totally panicking. And it's just because I felt so exposed. Because here I am, like picking up this new creative, you know, outlet and I've just had no business being here. But, you know, I pushed through, and it was just like a good reminder that you're not going to be great. And, you know, you should do it anyways. And so it's a process, you know, but I wish I were great. I admire people. And, you know, maybe someday I'll have something that I'm proud enough to put on my wall or something.
Thomas Mooney 18:18
Yeah, well, I mean, I imagine it, you know, it scratches a different part of your brain makes you have you. I mean, I'm not I don't even know if this is really a thing, but have you like been inspired to write anything at while you've been painting or like what you've painted? Has that sparked an idea or anything like that?
Hailey Whitters 18:36
So it's interesting. I am like, I'm really fascinated with Grant Wood right now. Um, he's, he actually so he was he's, the people probably know who he is. But for anyone who doesn't he? He's like, he was a huge regionalist painter and, you know, 30s 40s all that. And he painted the American Gothic painting, you know, the pitchfork painting, very popular. But he grew up in my hometown, he grew up in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. And so I've become very fascinated with him, especially lately, like I remember being a kid and everything in our town was like Grant Wood, Grant Wood, and I was like, it was Grant Wood. But now I've just kind of become fascinated with him and his painting and especially like being from there and being from the Heartland. Like he painted a bunch of, you know, Midwest, his paintings were very, like Midwestern. And he would paint farms and just all these things. So he's, he's inspired a lot of writing for me and honest, like, maybe a record concept somewhere down the line. Oh, yeah. There's just so much about him. And you know, what he did and how he was perceived and you know, what he what he was painting and Painting about that has inspired a lot of songs for me. So, I've been painting things, um, you know, the magnetically that fit in with what he did and how I'm feeling I'm not describing as well, but like just painting things that are inspired by him, or trying to recreate paintings that he did and just like putting them on this wall in my house, that's kind of turning into like my American Gothic wall, you know. And it's just like, also, I'm very fascinated with the heartland and where I come from. So it is this weird thing where like painting and writing music is like colliding, you know, I'm just really fascinated by him and what he was painting about. And so yeah, it's kind of become like my little American Gothic space, I guess.
Thomas Mooney 20:57
Yeah, that's really cool. I've always been fascinated by the, I think, like, with everyone really, if you wherever you kind of grew up, if you stayed there for a long time, you never fully appreciate it as a kid. And it takes a while getting far away, to realize, you know who these important people were in your hometown or in your region, or what was so special about it, and then you end up like, just appreciating it so much more and then kind of like digging back through and kind of go getting obsessive about it. Because I feel the same way about like, where I come from, you know,
Hailey Whitters 21:33
where are you from?
Thomas Mooney 21:34
I'm from Fort Stockton, Texas, which is okay, in the middle of nowhere in West Texas, like, kind of, like north of the Big Bend area. So like, the small town on the interstate, but like, nothing really out there. But you know, growing up there, I never really probably appreciated the the beauty of the landscape and just like the just like no one being out there. You know, it's a lot of ways still really untouched.
Hailey Whitters 22:02
Yeah, yeah, that is so interesting. And I don't I don't, I guess we just exactly what you said. Like, we just kind of appreciate where we come from a little more as we as we get older. And, you know, I feel like, especially for me, like I probably tend to romanticize it a lot. Because I'm not there anymore. You know, but it is such a fond place for me and like, I'm very inspired by it and the way of life back there. You know, both the positive and negative. Um, but yeah, that is that is an interesting thing. I don't know why we we do that. Yeah. But
Thomas Mooney 22:38
yeah, you can hear that, obviously, on this record of yours right here of the
Hailey Whitters 22:42
Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 22:43
It's interesting, you say romanticized because like, I feel if there's anything with nostalgia, it's just the romanticizing of, of old things. Right, the rose colored glasses aspects, because it's like I would never like move back to Fort Stockton, but I love talking about fort Stockton, you know? Yeah. So Oh, yeah. So like this record, one of my favorite things about it has been, I guess what I've kind of described as is like this balance of a record, you know, at times you you're very jaded and broken by the the quote unquote, system of Nashville and, and kind of like, you know, that the dreams being crushed, you know, but there's also like that optimism in there and it feels like you're always still betting on yourself. How I guess, like, obviously, 10 year town, is the epitome of all that. How many people came up after that song was released that we're in the same position as you that you didn't realize? Or, like, I guess, like, as far as like the Songwriters of Nashville and the artists. What do you was there a lot of people who came up to you and just kind of was like, wow, that's, you know, I felt that.
Hailey Whitters 24:09
Yeah, I think especially the artists and writers and industry folk came forward with that song just because I think it was very, you know, when I was writing, when I was throwing that idea out to co writers, a lot of people were like, you know, either I already have a song, that's that, or that's just so specific to Nashville, you know, so I think it just really, it was very much like kind of the Nashville story and just the journey of like, you know, an artist trying to make it. You know, one person in particular that reached out was john Osborne, from brothers Osborne. And I had never met john but he he messaged me, I think Lucy his wife had played him the song and he messaged me on Instagram. and was like, Hailey, like, I've been in the that spot, I know exactly how you feel like, you know, I had to sell the cars, I was selling weed for a while just anything I could to pay the bills and keep, keep it going. And you know, just keep going, you know, good things are coming your way don't ever give up. And I thought that was really cool and really sweet. And, you know, it's cool to see people who have gone on to have success, you know, acknowledge and share their stories of being in that same place, you know, right. Um, I just think it is such like a shared experience. And, you know, surprisingly, like even people outside of the industry, like I had a florist reach out to me and be like, I sell flowers, you know, but that song seriously resonates with me. And I think that's really cool. Because I think we've all had that moment in our lives, where we're like, what am I doing with my life? You know, and I think that that's, you know, on a broader sense, what that song is really about?
Thomas Mooney 26:12
Yeah, it feels like that, like, that's the kind of song that we, we need, like, every 15 years or something like that, you know, the, the, just as like a reminder of sorts, you know, at least or at least, like maybe like that song for every half generation or something, you know? Yeah. Because you do feel, you know, if you haven't felt this, I'm sure. You know, it's one of those things where, you know, you have a trust fund or something, you know, but uh huh. Yeah, I feel like everyone, when they leave, high school has that. I'm going to tackle the world. Right? And then you realize there's so many different levels of success. Has, I guess, like the definition of success changed for you over the years? actually.
Hailey Whitters 27:03
Yeah, I think that like 10 year town was like the turning of that page a little bit. For me, it was like, up until that point, I felt like I had just based success off of, you know, a certain sort of industry standard. And when I was, you know, shortly after I wrote 10 years down, something, it was like a switch kind of went off where I just, honestly, it's really strange, but I thought I was dying. For some reason I had this like premonition that I felt like I was going to die in the end a year. And so I started treating my time and my decisions. And where I was spending my energy. I started to think like, Okay, if this is my last year, or if I only have limited time, is this that important to me. And it just became really clear, like what was and wasn't really that important to me. And so I think that my idea of success changed in that way. And I kind of had kind of given up on my dream, my Nashville dream, I kind of got to a point where I was like, Listen, you know, you've been, you've spent this long, these many years chasing this one thing, and you need to be okay with the fact that it might never happen for you in the way that you want it to. And you need to be okay with that. And you need to make sure that you've built a great life outside of this one dream that you've been chasing. And so, in that way, in with that kind of realization, I think a lot of you know, my ideas on success change. And I mean, as simple as it sounds like, in Janis at the hotel bar, it's like go out and make a good living, but make sure you're living a good life. And that is, like my definition of success. Now, I think, you know, is it's like, it's great to have these accolades, and these, you know, awards or whatever, that you can look back on someday, but like, it's the things that we're doing in the meantime, and the people that we're doing them with that I feel like it's kind of the bigger picture when it comes to looking at what, you know, the key to life is or what, you know, what a successful life is.
Thomas Mooney 29:26
Yeah, did did a lot of those songs kind of come all at once, you know, cuz like, obviously, like the days has a lot of that same thematic feel of not counting the days counting v. The important parts of life.
Hailey Whitters 29:41
Yeah, um, so 10 year town was definitely one of the first songs I probably wrote on the record. And maybe a year later, Janice came and then maybe six months after that, we I wrote a days heartland was pretty written and pretty early on I think that was maybe even shortly after 10 year town. Yeah, they kind of like some you know, some of those songs are two three years old and some of them are just like a year old some of them actually Janice and the days and living the dream The title track I think we wrote those like, maybe a month even before we went into the studio, so those were kind of last minute additions to it, but I think you can see conceptually like, that theme was pretty relevant in my life at that time.
Thomas Mooney 30:39
Yeah, absolutely. You know, obviously this record has a lot of really great co writes on it a lot of great songwriters you know, like what I guess what is it? What was like your, do you remember, like your first official quote, unquote, official co write? When you came to Nashville? What was that? Like?
Hailey Whitters 31:00
First co write ever?
Thomas Mooney 31:02
Yeah, like what was like when you first kind of came in? Like was actually
Hailey Whitters 31:06
really funny. Um, my first ever co write was Kacey musgraves. Okay, yeah. So it and she didn't even live here yet. I had just moved here. And we had her sister, Kelly, I think had given her like one of my CDs. And she was in Texas, and she messaged me and asked if I would be down to co write. She was coming to Nashville. And I had never co written but I was like, I loved Kacey musgraves. I'd seen her on Nashville star. And so I didn't feel like I should turn that down. So yeah, we wrote and I think it was terribly. Like, I had no idea how to co write, I was so used to just only living inside my head and to actually have to, like, talk through things with another person was so weird to me. Um, but yeah, I don't even remember what our song was. I'm trying to remember what it was called. But yeah, that was my first co write. Actually, after that, I, you know, it might have even still been a while before I co wrote again, which is so weird, because now it's something I do so regularly, but yeah.
Thomas Mooney 32:17
Yeah, cuz it has to be like a skill that you just kind of have to learn how to, obviously work with somebody else. Anytime you add another person into the mix, you know, it becomes a little bit more complicated. In any, in any kind of job that you're kind of doing. Yep. So like, beforehand, you were, I guess, like every songwriter starts out writing songs by themselves. What were those kind of songs like was, was were they still influenced by the heartland aspects? Or? What were those? Like? I guess those early Hailey Whitters song so like,
Hailey Whitters 32:58
so like, the early I mean, I think I started writing songs when I was like 14 or 15 years old. I mean, if you want to go way back, like elementary school, but I feel like those don't really count. Yeah. But I mean, high school was when I really started writing, probably just when I started playing guitar. And I mean, we think we have so much life experience in high school, but let's be real, no, they were definitely about like high school boyfriends. I think one of the songs I had written was about how like, parents or parents don't know anything about love, but we're 15 and we do you know, like, really dramatic and yet is, you know, I, I've been, I've always been a writer, like I used to write a lot of like, stories and poetry and shit. And like, early on, so I remember like, one of my first poems or stories that I ever got, like, no, kind of like, my, whatever the prize was in school at that age was like, the first thing I ever like, got recognized for was a story that I had written or like a poem or something that I had written about. I guess challenging authority. It was like, older people are telling us what to do. Like they have it all figured out. You know, but really, they're still like children's. I don't know why I have this high and mighty like soapbox, Jesus. But um, yeah, I don't know. That's a pretty deep thought for someone. I was in like middle school when I wrote that. I feel like that's a pretty like, big idea to already be like, challenging authority. But yeah, I mean, early songs were all, you know, teenage angst and love.
Thomas Mooney 34:45
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of that's funny about because in a lot of ways I go, Oh, you know, just being naive at a young age, but also at the same time. I'm like, Yeah, I don't know if I still know anything more at this age than I do. Did I don't have any kind of idea of what I'm really doing so write maybe write something there. Yeah, totally. But yeah, I guess like with you know, it's one of those things where there's a reason why like punk artists are only up to like 25 years old or something, you know what I mean? Like, because it is that teenage angst and just living off of all that and authority and your parents don't know anything and, and then they become our country artists, so
Hailey Whitters 35:29
totally. That's so true.
Thomas Mooney 35:33
This episode is sponsored by the blue light live and Tom's Daiquiri here in Lubbock, Texas. While we are still a while away from live shows, Tom's is offering us all a bit of normalcy by introducing curbside pickup, starting Thursday, April 23. They'll be offering daiquiris beer and the ever so important hand sanitizer, produced locally by burn vodka and Pinkerton distillery. curbside pickup at Toms will be available Monday through Saturday from noon until 8pm. The best way to get your orders in is to simply call Tom's at 806-749-5442. That's 806-749-5442. Tom's is located right next to blue light on Buddy Holly Avenue at 1808. Buddy Holly, of course, throw all this info into the show notes. And I'll also share a menu. That will make things so much easier when ordering. It'll list prices and Daiquiri flavors and additional information. In speaking of blue light, as you know, it's an incredibly special venue. There's something magical that happens within those walls every night. While there's not any bands loading up on stage just yet. And there's not that buzz of excitement of a live show. There is still a way to get your dose of blue light magic. I'm talking about blue light merge. Do you go visit blue light lubbock.com you can see their very disappointment of shirts, caps, and some really sharp white, handmade leather koozies There are numerous things that Dustin Lance and Derek have done right over the years. But rolling out a line a brand defining mirch has been towards the top of that list. It's never paid by numbers, items. You never just feel like they didn't put much thought into them. They're always stylish. Yep, always practical. And always sport that iconic blue light flame, head over to blue light loving calm to order today. Okay, back to the show. Going, I guess going back to like the CO writing stuff on this record. You know, at some point, I guess like you, you have those butterflies of like, Oh, I'm going to be writing with Lori McKenna or brandy Clark. But at some point, those kind of go away they kind of or at least I would think it You still have to like pinch yourself every once in a while and go like, Oh, I'm pretty lucky to write with these people. And
Hailey Whitters 37:59
oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, the other day, we did a zoom. I did a zoom co right with Lori McKenna, Hillary Lindsey and brandy Clark, like all four of us. I mean, I was trying not to be a nerd. But I really wanted to take that picture because of that computer screen because I was like, how, like, what world is this that I somehow managed to get all three of my like, biggest influence influencers and just like artists that I just love and worship, like all on the same freakin quarantine computer screen, but I mean, yeah, you definitely do. Like I hope that I always have, I hope that I always, you know, have that excitement and like that feeling of Oh, I write with Laura McKenna. Today, I better have a really great idea for her, you know, like, because, you know, I think the minute you start to lose some of that you're probably you're probably, you know, might want to consider some different things because, you know, it's that's just the magic of it all. That's what makes it you know, so exciting, right? Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 39:14
So like, I love Lori McKenna. I think like her song. Great. Yeah, it's just so great. I'm not gonna ask you the What did you learn about most from Lori McKenna, but like, what is what was kind of like the, you know, when you were in a room with Lori McKenna, or on a zoom, I guess now? What were you like, most surprised, like, that's what she does. You know, like, Is there something? He does great. Well, no, no, like, even just like, in a practical sense, like, Oh, she uses a notebook, you know, or whatever the case. Yeah, like,
Hailey Whitters 39:45
um, so the first time I wrote with Laura, Mike and I went up to Boston, her house in Stoughton, Massachusetts. And we're sitting down, she has like her room in the basement that's kind of like her music room and whatever. And we're sitting down there and like She's just this hero. I mean, she's just is here she is at home. Like so casual, so relaxed. And we're writing a song, and her like, preteen sunscreens down the stairs and it's like, Mom, I'm hungry. And she was like, I'll be up in a sec, I'll make you a sandwich. We're about to finish this chorus. And it was just like this. I'm just thought it was so funny. Because here she is just like this Queen of Nashville, you know, so idolized, and then she's sitting here like in her house, you know, with a guitar in hand. One part, you know, Grammy Award winning songwriter and, and other parts still just like, the sandwich maker for her children, you know?
Thomas Mooney 40:50
Yeah. Yeah.
Hailey Whitters 40:52
It was a really cool contrast. I mean, I admire that so much. I admire her so much, not only as just like, you know, a songwriter, but also the way that she's able to balance life and mom and being a mom and, you know, also being very successful. I think it's just super admirable. And I think that's what makes her so great is her humility. And both, you know,
Thomas Mooney 41:18
yeah, yeah. The, one of the things I've, I guess I did like a little interview with her, probably, like two summers ago, about her last record. And one of the things that I found so interesting about a lot of her writing is how she will use like labels to like, describe somebody, like, you know, like the rifle, the bird, the fixer. Yeah, stuff like that. I asked her about that, like, what, why she started doing what, like, gave her that inspiration idea. And it was just like, if I remember correctly, she kind of just was like, it's it just makes that character. Like, the, the the audience knows what that character wants, you know, yeah, that have you tried anything like that if she brought any of that kind of stuff up?
Hailey Whitters 42:10
From I'm trying to think I love like personifying things like that. It allows you to, like look at it for it through a different lens, you know, I'm trying to think I'm sure I've done that. At some point. She kind of did that when they wrote the tree too, which I love that song. I love that. I think that's so unique. And that's how you can really tell like, she's a writer, you know? I don't think we've ever written anything like that together, though, huh?
Thomas Mooney 42:44
Yeah, I just I think like she's especially like on like I said, like, on the songs where she just names a character. Instead of just like john or jack or Jill or what, you know, what I mean? That persona, the the personification of whatever they want, or they do that. In a lot of ways, it's really innovative. I don't know if there's a whole lot of I can't really think of it a lot of other examples of people doing that kind of thing.
Hailey Whitters 43:14
Yeah, I mean, she's so brilliant. She's so great.
Thomas Mooney 43:21
Obviously, like on this record, a lot of the more critically acclaimed songs there there are a lot more in the the quote unquote, singer songwriter ballad form, you know, like the 10 year town, and you mentioned Janice at the hotel bar. Does, does that make you feel a little bit more financially accomplished, but a little bit more validated in that people were taking your you're slower ballads? You're more serious material? Seriously?
Hailey Whitters 43:54
Yeah, I think it's like, I'm really proud of those things. And it's very scary to put out, you know, a body of work, and then, you know, leave it up to critics and hear what they're gonna say. Like, that's a very vulnerable feeling, and kind of scary, and so I'm really proud of the reception. And yeah, it does feel that it feels a little validating to have some of these, you know, just really esteemed publications, like, supporting you, that feels really great. And I think, you know, I'm right here in the heart of Nashville and Music Row. And what Music Row does is not always what critical, you know, what gets praised critically and, and I think that it's very cool to be able to do both, and I, I want to do both. And that's something that I don't want to lose when I'm creating, you know, because I think, you know, just the music I tend to listen to is probably, you know, not necessarily contrary Radio and so but I work in country radio, and I'm seeing both sides. And so I want to be able to, you know, have music that is commercially accessible, but also be introducing thoughts and ideas that maybe stem a little deeper, you know. And really, I don't think what I'm doing is anything to off from the music in the country music that I was brought up on, and I don't want to try and be you know, anything other than that I just, I grew up listening to a lot of story songs. And I mean, we were just talking the other day, like red rag top, which, you know, was a hit for Tim McGraw, about abortion, or, you know, Alan Jackson, remember when, like, we were talking about Dolly down from Dover, it's a story about, you know, a woman who has a miscarriage, like, that is such a rich like, and just, you know, a thing that traditional Country Music has always done is tell stories and be real and talk about real life. And that's what I want to do, you know, so I think it is, it is a really, it feels very validating to be having the critical, critical success too, as well. And, you know, I'm really proud of that.
Thomas Mooney 46:25
Yeah. You know, you mentioned all these, I guess, like, you know, like serious topics, I guess, like, yeah, I can't remember how long ago was it doesn't really matter. But I had, I guess, a series of tweets, where I was talking about how I had been listening to a lot of 90s country and 80s country. And I had been, I guess, like, where it really came from was I was putting together these playlists of like, every top 10 hit of the that ever every song that became a top 10 hit on Billboard, on the US country charts for those decades. And I guess, like, what, one of the things that I got out of that was just how a lot of country music back then had. It was for adults. You know what I mean? The pendulum I feel has like, it's obviously like, it's gonna, there's always going to be songs that are more fun or more geared towards college life. But it felt like there's there for a while there was fewer, like adult subjects. You know, you mentioned the red ragtop. And obviously, like the Alan Jackson song, and I don't know, I feel like it's, it's it's great, in my opinion, that there's a lot more I guess. I hate to say like, serious material, but like stuff about like, real life. situation, right? Once you're, you're out of college or out of high school or whatever, you know,
Hailey Whitters 48:00
right. Yeah, I mean, even like Martina McBride. She was another one we were talking about, like, even like concrete Angel. That was a hit. I remember that was about child abuse or Independence Day, you know, and like, that was about domestic abuse. And I'm even I mean, growing up, like, first hearing that song, I wasn't even old enough to realize that that's kind of what it was about, you know, that song just feels so big. And, you know, but, yeah, I mean, and it doesn't all have to be serious. And I'm not like, yeah, you know, and I like to listen, I probably watch movies, sometimes, like people listen to music, like, I'm just tired and want something that I can just, like, junk my brain on, you know, but, um, I don't know, like, the music, I kind of want to say something. You know, if I have the platform, you know, to say something like, you know, the stories I'm saying or the stories I'm hearing your, but you know, I'm sure I have my beer drinking songs, too.
Thomas Mooney 49:02
Yeah, like, you know, the thing is, is that I guess like, at some point, I just kind of realized one, like, the the entire argument is just exhausting. If that's all you're focused on. And then two is like, um, you know, like, we're not like other people who are like, there's a parents out there who have like, taking their kids to soccer practice, and have like, actual like, and I don't want to say like actual jobs, but like, regular nine to five and, you know, they have to put get dinner and they have to do all this stuff, help them with homework, and they just don't have as much time to dive in on these, like, deep cut records, you know? Yeah. Because I, for, for all intents and purposes, I've got, like, a lot of time to do that kind of thing. And yeah, you know, the average person isn't really doing that, you know, they just, it's radio and it's The news and you know, your favorite reality show that kind of stuff.
Hailey Whitters 50:04
Yeah, so totally.
Thomas Mooney 50:06
Um, you know, you mentioned like how, you know, you listen to a lot of other stuff outside of country, you know, I was gonna ask, like, are you like a home fan.
Hailey Whitters 50:18
So I haven't really listened too much. And so it's funny because someone else brought them up to me the other day, too. I need to go get turned on to that.
Thomas Mooney 50:29
There's like one song in particular that I think it's a dream girl that has kind of like, a lot of the same tones that they that they kind of work in. And like, there's very cool. There's like a lot of sense, I guess with them, since they're three sisters. They have like just these incredible harmony parts. And that song in particular always has reminded me of Hi my whole lot and the cool the, I guess like the Fleetwood Mac aspects of of their songwriting.
Hailey Whitters 51:01
Yeah. Yeah, we like I wrote that song with Dustin Christiansen who's very like, I mean this in a great way. He like his very 80s, you know, with his style, and we wrote that song. And then when we took it in the studio, we were like, Alright, channel, Fleetwood Mac. You know, Cyndi Lauper Girls Just Want to Have Fun vibes. And so Rob McNally was playing guitar on that. And then he came up with that kind of sick lick thing. And it just felt so at ease and fun, you know?
Thomas Mooney 51:32
Yeah, I absolutely love that kind of stuff. Like the Yeah, I feel like I like my parents. My mom was like, just, you know, huge into 80s pop music and stuff like that. And I just never really appreciated it until later. And then I was like, I guess like one of the artists who actually kind of got me into more of the the ad stuff was the war on drugs because like, so much,
Hailey Whitters 51:55
okay. Yeah. Like,
Thomas Mooney 51:56
I love them the, like, the Dire Straits aspects of, of like those guitar tones. And people like that. Even like Bob Dylan 80s. Yeah, is interesting. So now, this is one of those things that I've been wanting to ask you about, because I feel like this is one of those. I feel like either I'm like, spot on or like, absolutely way off. Because like, I've thought about this too, with there's a Taylor Swift song that she just recently put out on that last record that I felt like, Is there some of that too? I guess it was a song me. Okay, so all the cool girls is that like, in reference to like, Gone Girl, and like that entire, the cool girl monologue or anything like that?
Hailey Whitters 52:41
What's the cool girl monologue?
Thomas Mooney 52:43
Okay, so like, I'm in the in Have you watched Gong Gong girl before?
Hailey Whitters 52:49
is I think I read the book is Gone Girl about the girl like fix
Thomas Mooney 52:54
her own murder. Like, yeah,
Hailey Whitters 52:56
I read that book. Okay, I read the book. I don't think I've seen the movie.
Thomas Mooney 52:59
Okay. You need to watch the movie. It's really great, too. But yeah, so like, the gang girl monologue thing is kind of like how. So she obviously realizes that her husband has been cheating on her. And her whole thing is like, I was a cool girl, I put up with all your shit. You know, I watched the baseball games and I got interested in all your stuff. And I was cool. I was a cool girl, you know, and you brag to my to your friends about how cool I was, and yada yada yada, all that kind of stuff. And I was just I didn't know if like that was a any kind of inspiration or anything like that.
Hailey Whitters 53:36
It wasn't but that is exactly like what we were tapping into. I think so I'm just gonna start saying that. People asked about that song. And that's a way cooler story. Okay,
Thomas Mooney 53:47
yeah. Well take that story. Yes, it's, like I said, like the, in the. In the Taylor Swift song. She mentioned something about cool chicks. And I thought maybe it was like, I was wondering, obviously, I don't have Taylor Swift's number and I asked her, but I was wondering if like it was originally like, Cool Girl. And then she was like, let's change it to chicks because the Dixie Chicks is going to be on this record or so. That's
Hailey Whitters 54:14
cool. I did see she had some, you know, subtle hints at Dixie Chicks and that song I think you could be right about that.
Thomas Mooney 54:25
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Hailey Whitters 56:15
Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 56:16
Then you the first record, I guess you put up there was home by Dixie Chicks? How I guess like how obsessed Were you with that record?
Hailey Whitters 56:25
I was so upset. I think I wrote on the post. Like I was so obsessed with that record, I listened to it so much that my high school boyfriend had it memorized. I remember them being like, I'm probably the only dude that knows every word on this record. But I listened to it all the time. Like I was, you know, I've been obsessed with the Dixie Chicks for a long, long time. But that record was so different. I felt like I felt like it was just so raw. And I mean, that's their bluegrass record. They didn't have a label at the time. So they kind of took whatever creative liberties they wanted with that record. And I mean, top of the world is on that record. So that was the first time I ever figured out who Patty Griffin was. And I remember just being so like, awestruck at how she was telling the perspective of you know, old man, right? It's like speaking as an old man, I was like, that was the first time I'd ever, you know, the lightbulb went off where it's like, Oh, so you don't actually have to be yourself. When you're writing songs. You can be tapping into other people and telling other perspectives. And yeah, I mean, I just I wore that record out top to bottom. That is the record that was always in the CD player in my car in high school.
Thomas Mooney 57:44
Yeah. They, you know, like, just that, that for those four records. Once like Natalie did join those four records. I don't know if there's like a better smaller batch of records for a catalog. Yeah, like, it's just a, because they're so diverse. Obviously, that last work that they did was, so it was just a, I don't want to say complete 180 but it was like, in a lot of ways 180 from that bluegrass record, and it just had its own distinct sound, you know?
Hailey Whitters 58:16
Yeah, it really is cool. It's cool that they're able to reinvent themselves. Like that. And as a band to you know, you're not it's not just one person who has to be on board with the new, the reinvention. It's the people who have to feel comfortable with it. And right, that's, I feel like that's a pretty cool thing to be able to pull off. Yeah, I think they're great. I love them so much.
Thomas Mooney 58:42
What was your thoughts on the latest single gaslighter?
Hailey Whitters 58:47
You know, I only listened to it once. I remember I was in the middle. It was a very stressful day of life on the road. And I listened to it. Once, you know, before I had to get back to you know, Van duties, but I liked it. I mean, it's so different. And I'm excited to hear the record when it comes out and kind of hear it in its entirety. It's always so hard, you know, to just work off one single but I liked it. It was great to hear them again. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 59:17
I always It's weird. Because, yeah, you I always love to hear the context of Yeah, that song falls in a record and what all that kind of stuff. But, you know, we're in that age of where and I guess like the Dixie Chicks really don't have to do this. But right where, you know, by the time a record comes out, like there's been like six singles off the record, you know? I guess like they, they probably don't have to do that. They just put one song Yeah, if they put the record out tomorrow or today, I guess with Friday. You know, people just
Hailey Whitters 59:48
word of the day. That would be pretty epic though.
Thomas Mooney 59:51
Yeah, they.
I guess they postponed the release of that. of gaslighter though.
Hailey Whitters 59:57
I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. That's untrue. thing
Thomas Mooney 1:00:00
Yeah. Okay, speaking of Beyonce, though, what did you think of like their collab of like the What song did they do off the Beyonce record?
Hailey Whitters 1:00:08
Man? What did they do? Did they do
Thomas Mooney 1:00:11
I feel like I'm gonna be off it's it
Hailey Whitters 1:00:13
wasn't Single Ladies was
Thomas Mooney 1:00:15
it was like, I don't want to say the wrong thing so I'm not gonna say it until I look it up.
Hailey Whitters 1:00:20
I remember seeing it. I totally remember like seeing it and now I'm blanking on what I mean. What was that song? crap? I can't remember a girl's was a girl. Cuz that was like,
Thomas Mooney 1:00:31
Oh, Daddy lessons.
Hailey Whitters 1:00:33
Okay, okay. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 1:00:35
yeah, that song right there. I I think a lot of Beyonce so polarizing. I think she's gay. But like, in my opinion, I daddy lessons just kind of shows that she can do whatever she wants, you know?
Hailey Whitters 1:00:50
Yeah. Because it's, it's untouchable.
Thomas Mooney 1:00:53
It's not the quote unquote, pop song gets, you know, a lot of ways, like a is like a country song. So. Yeah, so, uh, I feel like I'm getting off subject. Today, but um, let's see here. I was gonna ask you about like living the dream. Yeah, that song. Obviously, it closes the record, it has the, you know, the, those aspects of the, the dream not being necessarily great, you know, and you're very, I guess like you're, you're, it's a gut punch, or it's like a dose of reality and a lot of ways. Where were you? I guess, like, when you started writing that song? And how did that start forming for you?
Hailey Whitters 1:01:46
So that was I wrote that song. I think in February of 2017. I was up in Boston with Laurie. That was the moment writing that song was when, you know, I think we were even two thirds of the way finished recording the record at that point. But I went up and had that session with her. And we wrote that song. And I called Jake after. And I was like, Okay, I just wrote the song with Laurie, it's the concept of the record, we have to call the record the dream. You know, it just it was this song where it was taking, you know, all these things that people associate with man, hey, you're living the dream, you know, like, and it was saying it was kind of throwing that out the window a little bit and being like, you know, the paycheck, the tour bus, the those things that you think are like the dream the apartment in New York City, like, you know, the dream is what happens when we're busy living the dream, you know, is the life that happens when we're busy living those, you know, chasing those things. And so, yeah, when we wrote that, I just knew that that was what I was trying to say with the record was, make sure when you are chasing the dream or chasing those things that people associate with living the dream, make sure like you're paying attention to the life that you're living outside of that.
Thomas Mooney 1:03:23
Yeah, like that second verse in particular, like, I just, it feels so I feel so sad for like, you sing that song, because it's like that. Yeah, it's such great imagery, though, you know, the cigarette out the window, car window, and all that stuff. It feels like that's just a, I think we've all kind of been there, you know?
Hailey Whitters 1:03:45
Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 1:03:46
One of the things I was I was going to ask you about is the, you're really have these, like, really clever choruses and hooks and stuff like that, like that, obviously, like the dream girl in the heartland, stuff like that. Is that easy for you? Or do you feel like you've slowly kind of like, found the knack for that kind of thing?
Hailey Whitters 1:04:07
That's something I think that's kind of like, you know, I think that's just something that, I don't know if it's a phase, but now it's almost like what I'm kind of like looking for is a way to like, cleverly twist that to mean, something else, you know, right? Um, I feel like it's almost like the modern country hook. You know, like, whenever people talk about like, the country hook now it's kind of like, that's, it is like finding ways to kind of twist, you know, a set of words or something. I don't know. I think that's something that is not necessarily for every song, you know, but when you have kind of a clever word like that, where you can kind of do a different play on words, then it makes sense to do it, you know? Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 1:04:57
Obviously, okay, I'm looking at the chocolate And I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier but you do kind of have like a a a song that has like the character as the personified and this the Faker?
Hailey Whitters 1:05:10
Oh yeah, so yeah.
Thomas Mooney 1:05:15
Yeah, there you go. I was gonna ask you about that song too, because you wrote you co wrote it with Hillary and Waylon Payne, who Waylon Payne I just feel is like one of those unheralded songwriters who just like I'm just I'm the you know, whatever meme you want to insert about, like just the waiting for the his next record, you know?
Hailey Whitters 1:05:38
Yes. Oh, yeah. What? Great.
Thomas Mooney 1:05:41
Have you heard any of it? or anything like that?
Hailey Whitters 1:05:43
I actually haven't heard it, which is so weird. I mean, I, we write at the same publishing company. And I think I told him in the kitchen the other day, I was like, I need to hear your record. way way. Like, you never know where Waylon is, or what he's doing. But, um, I know he's very excited about it. Yeah. So I'm such a Wayland pain fan too. So I'm just eagerly anticipating hearing that record.
Thomas Mooney 1:06:08
I'm, like, I guess like for you, like, what is your? I guess like your I know, coat likes or songwriting in general is just so different. But do you kind of fall into a routine? Are you a certain? Do you have like to have a certain kind of notebook? Or are you like more on the computer? Or are you more of like a note, like a recording kind of person? What is like the, the stuff that you want to have right before you're starting to write a song.
Hailey Whitters 1:06:41
So I guess recently, with zoom, everything's on the computer, I go and light like some incense or Palo Santo or something, try and get some vibes going, I got my Christmas lights. Go in, that's quarantine co writing on a normal, like, non pandemic week of CO writes, I feel like, if I'm co writing, I'm probably on a computer. Just for conveniency sake, it's just quicker, it's easier. If I'm writing by myself, I really like to just put pen to paper, it feels good to be writing. It just kind of depends.
Thomas Mooney 1:07:22
I always feel like when I'm writing an article, if I have a hard time doing something, just like stepping away and actually like writing it pen to pad helps so much more. Because it feels like it feels like you're actually kind of more doing something.
Hailey Whitters 1:07:40
Right. I agree.
Thomas Mooney 1:07:42
It's just it's I don't know, there's something about that. The I don't know. It's it's also kind of like the I would I would kind of almost describe it as like the way whenever you if you're listening to a record, it makes it feel more like an event than if you're clicking on Spotify or something.
Hailey Whitters 1:08:01
I agree. I totally agree. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 1:08:04
I don't know. Like, I think we've I've gone through most of my talking points here. I mean, it's been really, really great talking with you.
Hailey Whitters 1:08:13
Yeah, you do.
Thomas Mooney 1:08:17
Okay, guys, thank you for listening to new slang. Thank you to Hailey. As a reminder, go listen to the train. Be sure to check out our sponsors On this episode, the blue light live and Tom's Daiquiri here in Lubbock and wickers mesquite smoked jalapeno jelly. And of course, be ready for Monday night lights, a blue light, songwriter compilation where all the proceeds go to helping blue light staff
Transcribed by https://otter.ai