176: Zach Bryan

On Episode 176, I'm joined by rising singer-songwriter Zach Bryan. During this conversation, we talk about songs, carving out time for songwriting, those early raw recordings that started out in part as a necessity to be heard but quickly became a signature for his earnest songs, dealing with imposter syndrome, performing at The Grand Ole Opry in April, recording with Dave Cobb in Studio A, evolving as a songwriter, storyteller, and guitarist, Oklahoma roots, and what's around the corner album wise.

This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:02

Hey y'all Welcome back to New slang on music journalist Thomas Mooney. And we're kicking off the week being joined by singer songwriter Zack Bryan. actually just got off the phone with Zach this afternoon and well, I figured there's nothing quite like the present. So let's just go ahead and get this episode out now. I feel like this conversation was Zach was a really organic one. And I was pleasantly surprised with Zach's perspective and thoughts. Obviously, he's humble beyond belief, which I'm sure you can pick up on that earnestness in his lyrics, and in his music, but really, it's still one of those things you just never know. Until you talk with someone. On this one. We talk about songs and songwriting those early roots and how those early raw recordings were both kind of like a necessity at the time. But it also helped shape and form and cultivate his sound, and then eventually formed and shaped that fan base. We talk about imposter syndrome, which is a real thing like, which I mean, just put yourself in Zach's shoes for one second, you're playing songs that are in the middle of the night on someone's back porch, you know, on a park bench somewhere. And then pretty soon after that, you know, you have this following this slight demand for yourself. And then of course, fast forward just a little bit further. And you're playing like the Grand Ole Opry and you're cutting songs in Studio A with Dave Cobb. I mean, it's kind of an amazing thing, right? I think saying It's surreal would be an understatement. And then we close out by talking a little bit about what's coming in the future. We talked about potential live shows and evolving as a songwriter, and of course, what's coming around the corner on the album front. We'll get to all that here in about two seconds. But first, today's presenting partner is our pals over at Desert door Texas Soto. If you've been listening to new slang for really any amount of time, you'll know that desert door is one of my all time favorite premium, high quality spirits. If you haven't or aren't sure what exactly a sotol is. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that's going to up the game on your liquor cabinet. For starters, the best reference point that I can point you to is to think about a tequila or Moscow. Do you feel that Western desert that text is ruggedness? Okay, Soto is like that, but a little bit more refined, smooth and fragrant. It intrigues the palate and offers these hints of vanilla and citrus. There's an earthiness that often sends me right back to my transpac is some Far West Texas roots. There's plenty to love about desert door. For me, it all starts right there. a close second is just how versatile desert door really is. You can go full highbrow and experiment with concocting a variety of cocktails that call for muddling fresh fruit sprigs of time sticks of cinnamon, it's perfect for that world. If you're a little bit more down home, if you've just rolled up the sleeves up your denim Wrangler button up, it's perfect for that as well. If you're just desiring something that's short and sweet, it hits the mark every time does adore is genuine and authentically West Texan it's inherently West Texan. They harvest Soto plants out in the wild and our knowledgeable conservationists at heart. That's obviously something incredibly important to me. They shine a light on what makes West Texas special and unique and worth preserving and keeping it safe from exploitation. Right now, you can find desert door all over Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, and there's budding numbers in places like New Mexico, Arizona, California and Georgia. Best thing you can do is to check out desert door.com to find where desert door is locally. Again, that's desert door.com. If this is your first time listening to new slang, be sure to hit that subscribe button. We're available on Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcasts, and virtually anywhere you can listen to podcast and of course one of those five star reviews. They go a long way so leave one of those to make a pit stop on over at the merch store. That would be new slang podcast dot big cartel.com. Over there we have plenty of T shirts, coffee mug shot glasses, stickers and so on. If you're wanting even more new slang stuff, a great way to support this podcast by 90s country podcast the neon Eon in journalism in general is signing up for my Patreon. You can sign up for monthly merge packs, add free episodes, or be a part of our postcard club for as little as $3 a month. And of course I just mentioned the neon neon that is my 90s country podcast. It's interviews and conversations with about songwriter songs, artists, albums and trends of the era.

And of course I am a print journalist by trade. The latest thing I wrote is a interview with Charlie Murray over on holler Go check it out super easy URL it's hollard dot country and like always all the links that I just mentioned they will be in the show notes which yeah let's just get on into it here is Zack Brian just yeah whenever you're ready born yet born ready let's let's get it awesome well you know I want to start off with you know you're from the the land of Turnpike and Fulbright and all these red dirt singers obviously like you can tell that that is you know, an integral part of your your songwriting background. At what point did you did you start like discovering all these guys that were all kind of like, you know, in your backyard and in the neighborhood? As far as you know? Was there was that pretty early on? Or were you like a lot of other kids? Yeah, I was like listening to a lot of top 40 along the way.

Zach Bryan 6:01

Oh, no. Like Me and my friends follow the turnpike religiously while I was a kid like 14 to 18 we were always just getting rowdy going on the river and Calico are where they're from. And we were just we were so like indebted to them. They were all we listened to you for so long. And we would go to every single concert that had I've been to I've been to like five Turnpike concerts for only made it into like one of them because everything got so rowdy beforehand that we never made it and but Turnpike Turnpike is always been this just all we listened to really. So besides them though, I kind of always had like my buddies and everything. We've always just kind of known the local musicians and things like that. It's been it's been really cool to come from such a such a place with songwriters, like even the old ones, Woody Guthrie and stuff. Just amazing. Yeah, I

Thomas Mooney 6:49

always wonder like how, you know, engrained or aware a songwriter is of like, their local talent. Because obviously, it's so easy to, you know, just pay attention to what's on top 40 or MTV or VH. One. And I'm sure like, like anyone, you know, there's, there's an aspect of that, that you grew up listening to, but it's always really, really cool to when you realize, Hey, you know, there's that one guy who is doing this, and maybe that gives me a little bit of allowance to try it out myself.

Zach Bryan 7:24

And it's so it's so funny, because I don't I don't deserve to be where I'm at, kind of with the notoriety and like how much attention I get with my music compared to the guys out here in Oklahoma who were just like these, like rundown bars, you know what I mean? And that's, it's so crazy to me how talented people are just next door to you. And that's why I think honestly, it's all just like, either a God thing or a lot of luck that gets people to where they're like on a bigger stage. You know, I really don't believe that. Any artist is better than any other artists. I think it's all about like, the people you meet and the places you go, you know?

Thomas Mooney 7:56

Yeah, that's, that's one of those things right there. The I think every everyone has a little bit of talent, like whoever kind of makes it. Whoever kind of gets any kind of notoriety, there has to be at least a little ounce of talent in there. And, you know, if someone says, like, so and so is untalented, and you know, they're full of shit, but it's all haters. Yeah, it's like the people don't want to talk about how luck is involved or like, just bright timing, or, you know, just meeting that right person who shares something or retweets.

Zach Bryan 8:30

Oh, exactly. And that's, yeah, that's why people, that's why people just don't like me when I talk. Because I'll honestly blame that all on, just like, on serendipity, you know, like, I don't I know. That's when people like, give my music to teach me stuff. I'm like, Yeah, I get it. I know. I'm not against you, what how you feel about my music? I don't like it that much either. But it's all about just kind of, it's all about kind of just like, legitimately, who shares it, who talks about it, who loves it? Who, who's where, when they're there. You know, it's just all about the luck. And that's all I want to talk about. Because it's just so true. Right?

Thomas Mooney 9:03

Well, you know, like, early on for you. You know, I guess like you really kind of broke up the first time I saw you was five before you released your first record. And it was just, you know, you playing in a backyard on Twitter. And, you know, it was one of those things. You see it and the next time it pops up on your timeline. There's like 1000 more retweets or is annoyed with it at that point. You're like, Dude, what? For me? Like I'm like, okay, like, what is it that's making people tick about this? Like, what is it like, what is it? And I'm

Zach Bryan 9:38

yeah, cuz it's just, it's just a kid with a guitar. same year. I didn't understand it either. When it first started, I was just some guy, some white kid freakin vanilla boy playing guitar on a bench somewhere. And all these people were so intrigued by it, and I was so confused, you know?

Thomas Mooney 9:53

Yeah. That's what I'm mainly like, interested in is how you've thought of This entire rise because it very much is not necessarily that you didn't work for anything. Like there's plenty of work involved, there's plenty of all of those things that that happened, that that are necessary. All that's part of that but, you know, like this thing where, where it just happens where, you know, you tapped into something that all these kids were looking for. They didn't necessarily know they were looking for it. But I think it's in the same way that like co wetzel became like, really, really big in a different way. But also like, these kids were like, Oh, shit, that's something that I didn't know. I needed.

Zach Bryan 10:40

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And that's, it's kind of a beautiful thing. I think it's just kind of the, the melodies and the hometown feeling of, of the tunes that are saying that people are like, Oh, damn, I do feel that, you know, and I think a lot of it is I think a lot of it is my lyrics, I feel like, I've worked really hard to make my lyrics different than other artists, like I try really hard to, like write actual words that people don't expect in songs, you know, and I feel like a lot of songs are like, you kind of expect the next line to be the next line, you know. So when I write I try to, I try to make it completely relatable, and completely simple, but also to where, like, you don't expect what word is going to come next.

Thomas Mooney 11:23

Right? There's this really interesting thing that I've talked with a couple of people when it comes to you, where it's very plain spoken in a lot of ways and a lot of respects as far as storytelling goes. But then there's like this weird, like, almost Shakespearean thing sometimes where you can tell like, you've come across a word that you're like, I'm gonna get this fucking word in a song, and try and get a ride. And like, Yeah, sometimes that works. Sometimes it's like a little force, but like, you know, it's interesting, all the same as far as like, how you kind of got it in there.

Zach Bryan 12:00

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I was talking to some with some boys last night. And I was saying, like, man, as a songwriter, you never know what's gonna take what is and you're just writing where you feel like you want to write and then that's what's weird about it, too. It's, it doesn't really make any sense to me, either. how some people relate to some songs, some people don't relate to others. And it's just it's such a cool like little jigsaw puzzle that I work with every time I write a song.

Thomas Mooney 12:22

Yeah, well, you know, take me to kind of like your writing process. Obviously, you're in the Navy, you got a lot of other stuff going on right now. What What's it like? You have to like carve out time to write? Or are you one of those guys who, you know, just ideas, you're in that like stage of maybe like, what my dad would call like, being full of piss and vinegar. So like, everything's interesting and everything. You're going gung ho, what's the, what's the songwriting process, like, though? Has it been Have you been able to slow down I guess, to carve out

Zach Bryan 12:53

time, really. I'm like, I'm just kind of an observer, you know, like ever where I'm at, I'm just observing what's around me not pretentious, either. I don't think I'm any different than anyone else. But like, like, like, for instance, just as I was, I was on a porch with with some family and play. I played a show in Houston or this weekend, actually, not not yesterday, but I was on some porches and family and I thought of, I thought about three words that went together really well. So I got my guitar out. And I just wrote like half a song right there. And then later, probably a week from now, I'll go back to that and write the rest of it. And it's, that's it's as simple as that. I'm, like, I kind of my, all my friends think I'm like OCD about it. Like I have kind of like a sickness where I just like, I'm always writing something down. Like if it's like one line near one line there. But it's all about the words to me, like a lot of musicians. Sometimes they'll tell me that they get like melodies and stuff stuck in their head. But for me, it's like, three words that go together or a line that goes together, and then later, I'll revisit it and then it turns out to be a song and it's such, like, there's 1000s and 1000s of videos on my phone have just me in the in my truck saying like five words, are saying five words. It's so strange how it works.

Thomas Mooney 14:02

Yeah, well, that's the thing right there. Like, you know, you mentioned all that a lot of other songwriters, they get that melody stuck, and they get that whatever that is the melody, the just a rhythm or something like that. Sometimes those though, like the words, you're talking like those three, four or five words, those phrases that can create a rhythm in itself that kind of

Zach Bryan 14:24

just me like, yeah, I want to like guitar and lyrics first. And I'm like lyrics always because I, I like I'm just a word guy. So like, if I find five words that make me feel something, I'll put some sort of melody or rhythm to it that makes it makes sense. And a lot of people give me shit because it's like three or four chords, but honestly, it's all I'll ever need. It's all I'll ever do, you know?

Thomas Mooney 14:46

Yeah, well, I mean, what is like, you know, the Willie Nelson thing, right? three chords in the truth.

Zach Bryan 14:50

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And again, yeah, I've been trying my best to get I honestly all year I've been. I've disappeared for a while. I got a lot of, I got a lot opportunities. It's like work on my guitar playing a lot. I mean, I had like a teacher teach me and everything. So it's really fun to like explore that explore, like that part of me where I can, because it helps with the words too, if you know the guitar a lot better you can work around it and get some better words to it as well.

Thomas Mooney 15:17

Right? Well, you know, that's, that's interesting, because, you know, as you said, right there, the more you know, your your instrument, the more you're able to figure out these different rhythms, these more diverse rhythms. And boy, you're not just kind of feeling like you're, you know, recycling. What you're already exactly something. So, this all ties back to like, kind of your rise. And as far as like, what, what's been going on for you. I think, like one of these interesting things, specifically about your career so far, is that for a lot of songwriters, you know, we don't really see those first songs, we've not been, like, been privy to hear the first 10 songs that, you know, some prolific songwriter wrote really, like, it really never works out. Yeah. And it feels like we the you, like we're really seeing it as early on as possible. And maybe that's why, like, you've drawn some criticism from some folks where it's like, well, these are, you know, these are like the first batch we're seeing you from, like the inception of, of the songwriter to, to now and, I don't know, maybe give a little time to, to let those other things, you know, become more refined, or whatever the case is, you know, learn that guitar a little bit more, where as you just obviously, write more songs.

Zach Bryan 16:39

Exactly, exactly. And I get like, my friends, my friends don't like me a lot. Sometimes, because all I do is sit in a chair and write music and play guitar. And I think that's what I think that's the edge I have on a lot of people is like a lot of like, the critics and everything that came along in the beginning, they were like, does kid doesn't deserve it, you know, like, he just kind of blew up overnight. They didn't see the first frickin eight years of me sitting there for seven, eight hours in front of my computer on SoundCloud. You know, like, throwing songs at the wind getting like two or three late likes and planet. Like, the first, the first money I ever made for music, I made 60 bucks from a sandwich shop, and I played for 12 hours, and it was all originals. And it was like, I don't know, seven years ago, you know. And that is just it, I spent so much time trying to learn how to write a song opposed to like, learn how to play guitar. I learned how to write while other people were learning how to make a song sound good, like, with, with music, you know. And I think that's sometimes when I hear some people send me songs all the time when I hear them, I'm like, this person is really killing it with the guitar and the band behind them and everything. But the words are kind of like, you know, seven, eight, they just kind of subpar. And I think and and mine are no better. By the way. I'm not trying to sound arrogant or anything. But that's we were talking earlier about like the kids who are trying to scratch the surface of like, whatever it is that happened to me. I think that was it. I think that's what happened. I just spent a lot more time writing.

Thomas Mooney 18:09

Yeah, wait. Another part like that, that I think is has been key is Binley. Us staying to the singer songwriter being the, you know, like that first record, I guess, like really the first two records. It's like, you develop the sound because like almost out of necessity, right? Because you guys cut it yourself. You didn't go into a studio, you didn't hire out a band. It's just you and your friends. And that's been that's, I guess, like, become a part of the the process where sometimes I feel like other songwriters. It's like, they think, Oh, I got to get the band, I got to get like, time to cut a record I need to like start saving money to get all that stuff. And that's fine to

Zach Bryan 18:54

do. And it's so yeah, it is it is that it's so strange to me because to me, it's just so sorry for interrupting but it's just like, it's music. It's how you feel, how you tell you what your music to feel and sound and like, I feel the same way and people are so like, tedious and they're so like, slow to and obviously I wasn't going to slow down a little bit too because I know that's what it takes to produce a good record. I learned that along the way but when I first started I just looked at other people and I was like you guys take so long to just record one song and I've got like 50 sitting here that I just want to show the world like I don't care really how it sounds I've learned throughout the day like yours like that's also important but at the beginning man I didn't care I just wanted the world this here some melodies you know.

Thomas Mooney 19:38

Like that's what I'm that's exactly. One of the points I have right there is that sometimes it can feel like others put the cart before the horse. And like, you know, they're worrying more about all the other stuff versus like just, hey, do you got some songs? You have like those ready and like you don't necessarily have to make it you know a wall of sound Country record, right? You can just do exactly you can have, you know, some buddies play little accent pieces here and there. And for some reason that has like resonated more with people, then, you know, getting the five piece band together.

Zach Bryan 20:17

Yep, exactly. And it's so fun for me to because I've gotten to see both sides like I've gotten to record with some of the best musicians in the world and I've gotten a record of my friends in a barn and both places I felt the same, you know, like both places. Like I had the meat and potatoes. I had the song, so it didn't matter where I was at singing it you know.

Thomas Mooney 20:36

This episode of new slang is brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Blue Light has long been the heart and soul of the Lubbock singer songwriter scene, and has been a home away from home for some of Texas Americana, country and rock and roll's finest over the years. Talk with 99.9% of the Songwriters who have come out of Lubbock in the panhandle at large over the past 20 years. And they'll point to just how integral and necessary the blue light is, with live music and touring slowly but surely coming back spots like the blue light or getting back to their usual ways as well. That means music every night of the week. Do you want to see that schedule? Well, I've got a few options for you. One, go to their socials and give them a follow that is at blue light live on Twitter, at the blue light live on Instagram. And of course, by just searching the blue light live on Facebook, they're consistently posting that week's lineup of shows, as well as those heavy hitters that ought to be on your calendar that are coming up on the horizon. To check out blue light lubbock.com as well. There they have the full schedule, the cover charges, time, any of those specials that may be happening while they're go check out their merge page. They have a wide range of hats, koozies, hoodies, sweaters, beanies, jackets, and so much more. You can of course get all of your merchant age, when you go see your favorite band, take the stage at blue light, just ask the bartender and they will get you all set. Speaking of which, that's another great way of seeing who's playing there. Just go to the blue light. It's at 1806 Buddy Holly Avenue here in Lubbock, Texas. And of course, again, that is blue light, loving, calm. I'll throw a link into the show notes to maybe I'll see you there. Okay, let's get back to the show. Right has there been any like ideas on you know, re cutting any songs or are you like comfortable enough like letting them live as like this just like a lot of the songs just being the the acoustic records,

Zach Bryan 22:49

honestly, honestly, I've thought a lot about that because the second record I cut was in the barn and a lot of the songs I read listened to and I'm like, wow, these actually sound pretty bad, you know, and I thought about like, returning those but just like we did and just calling it like the frost that road or frost that barn recordings or whatever. But also the first record Dan, one that I want to kind of blew up. That record terrifies me, because I never know if I were to recut any of those songs if there would be a mob outside my door trying to kill me because those are like, those are the cult classic. I don't know, like what people started following me for. So I do want to recut those songs like Amazon gave me a chance they gave me they gave me a little bit of money to car single. And I thought a long time about it. Like what song I would pick and it would probably be off the end, obviously. And I think it would be so fun. Like after I've refined myself two and a half years, you know, to go back and revisit like those songs. negative experience a little bit of soulburner my breath, you know, right.

Thomas Mooney 23:55

Yeah. That's something interesting because and you're right about like the mob. Because like, Yeah, no, it's a strange thing where they're your songs, you release them. All of a sudden, though, like, if you got that cult following. Those songs become their songs, you know, like, and that's like, that's, yeah, there's some beauty about that. As far as like, you know, that's the, you know, that one person who like songs Come on the radio every two songs and they go, Oh, man, that's my song right there. It's like, well, how many songs do you hear your song? But there's like that ownership aspect of it, I guess. But the way I would challenge that mob those listeners is, hypothetically had we done it the other way around, where I did have that full band sound. And then I said, Hey, guys, I'm gonna cut you guys an acoustic record. You guys would all be able to love it. So yeah, just be open. Very true. Wow. Good point. Yeah. Yeah, I understand that right there.

Zach Bryan 24:58

And people are just hard people are hard to do. Deal with I've learned that to not like in a in a malicious way either it's just everyone wants something different from an artist. And so it's quite, it's quite impossible to have a following and, and might meet everyone's needs and it just stinks because I'm such like a I'm just a pleaser, you know, like, I like pleasing people. I like people feeling loved and appreciated and cared about even my, even my fault. Like even my father's you know, like, that's how I want. But I've learned now that the following is kind of so big that there's two halves of it. And I can't feed both crowds, you know,

Thomas Mooney 25:29

right. Yeah. You mentioned something a minute ago about, you know, you've got all the songs you obviously everything that's on the record so far. But, you know, you got all these YouTube videos of just songs as well, that feel like they're, you kind of, I don't know if this is necessarily the case or not. But it feels like this where you're kind of just, hey, here's an A, here's a YouTube video of a song I just finished this week. Is that very much has that been the process as far as what you've been releasing? That's not on our record so far?

Zach Bryan 26:00

Oh, yeah. See, like, like I was saying earlier, my friends hate me, because I'm always literally just sitting on a chair writing music, it's all I do, ever. So I'm also really like videography, and photography and stuff. So that stuff is just for me, I love doing that stuff. I love like cutting songs and making videos for them. And so my favorite thing in the world, and I write like probably 1213 songs a week. And all, I'll just pick one, honestly, like some, like when I get bored when I when I'm like not working as much or I like I kind of have to I have to create or die and I'm not even in a pretentious way again, I just like, if I'm not making something always feel out for my day is wasted. So that's just YouTube is I made a big deal with the label to I just, I wanted the YouTube to be mine because I built it. I felt like it wasn't the first thing in my life that I felt like I had worked really hard at, built it up. And it was mine, you know, so that's why I stay on YouTube, because I just, I love the interactions on there. And the people who follow me on there. Like, I started a podcast and one point cuz I just like loved making those videos and like relating to people and even like, the youtubers on the right, like the people who comment on the videos right now, when I post another video, they're always like, oh, man, it's like kind of cool for me. Because sometimes people are like, I've literally sat out for two days waiting for Zack Bryan video this weekend. It didn't come You know, and it just feels awesome. Like, people will comment stuff like that. And I'm like, How amazing is it that these people like, long for my music enough to where they're willing to like, wait up all weekend just for me just to see, like, if I maybe post a video or not when I haven't said anything about it, you know? Because I'll post these videos like three in the morning on Sunday night, you know, so people are always like, waiting for it. There'll be like mad at me because like it didn't upload. It's just so funny to me. And so like it's such a blessing that people care enough.

Thomas Mooney 27:47

Yeah, that's another thing right? There is like, you've released music, in very untraditional ways, ways that like, you know, I think we've all gotten comfortable in this, oh, you're gonna cut a record, you're gonna release four singles. And you're going to put those singles out like every six weeks, and then you're going to put the record out. And, you know, you've as far as the YouTube goes, it is that like spontaneousness right there. But then even like the way you've cut, or you released these records, it's not like you've had like that lead single on it. Release the week before anything like that even. It's just like, a lot of times. It's like, Hey, guys, here's a record I have here. And so I think that's some Yeah, right there that people love to as far as that. Like, it's like catching, I don't know, like, like, maybe it feels like, where they're thinking, this guy's always going to be constantly full of surprises. And you just always have to be ready, just in case he's got like another, you know, in the can.

Zach Bryan 28:48

And that's why like, my friends and stuff love me and hate me so much too. It's like, my life is just absolute chaos with everything I have going on. And I just love like, living life to the absolute fullest. And I like doing that through music too. Because like we were talking about earlier, music is just music and it's supposed to help people and stuff. So I don't really, I don't really relate to all of that, like music industry stuff. Or it's like, Oh, we got to do this time limit. You got to take this here and market this this way and make this like a machine where people listen on a Friday, you know, I'm like, dude, there's gonna be another song that we can just release that. Like, I love that stuff. Because I love I like being a random guy, because I like keeping things fun. We only live once you know, so I like doing that for other people too. So I think I think you're right there. And I love that about my phone too. It's like they never have an issue with it. And that's a beautiful thing.

Thomas Mooney 29:36

Yeah, the, because all of that. I mean, I understand like, why the industry does all that stuff, too. Of course, that's the thing too, like I've never Yeah, a lot of times sometimes. A lot of times I'll just be like oh my gosh, we're just in the process for the processes sake versus like the art sake, the that whatever the corner of commerce and art sometimes it's very

Zach Bryan 30:00

And is it reciprocated, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's like, it's like, they do all that for a record use into the record. And it's like subpar, and it took six months to release it. And, to me, it's I, if that's the thing too, with with my music, if I were to ever, I think that this studio album, we're going to try to do this, but we're going to take a little bit of time, because the writing on it means a lot more to me. But if I ever have like, a collection of songs that I want to call an album, and I want to like really blow it, blow it up, I would, I would probably take those steps and make sure like to be methodical about it, and, and release it with a single and do everything, like how it's designed to be done, like the old ways, you know, but there's a, there's a thing in me where like, I always feel like I'm gonna have another song. So I just kind of want to get the one in front of me out. But also, there's another thing that I want to respect the music industry and how it's always been run. I want to respect the artists around me. That's another thing. It's terrifying to me. I don't want artists who are doing it that way to think that I'm disrespecting them by just being like, whatever. Let's shoot from the hip. See what happens, you know?

Thomas Mooney 31:07

Right? Well, I again, I think it all stemmed from just like the means you had at the time, right? I mean, it's not like you Yeah, it's all an industry plant who had like a, you know, a major deal, you know, just the endless budget, and then decided to cut an acoustic record to have this, you know, organic following. It kind of just happened that way. Because out of necessity, right?

Zach Bryan 31:31

organically? Yeah, exactly. So I was working so much. And I still to this day work so much that like, people think it's like part of my big plan, you know, but honestly, it's just like, I'm off on the weekends, I have a weird time slots where I'm at work when I'm not at work, or I'm on duty. So it looks like spot spontaneous to them. But to me, it's just the only time I'm able to do this stuff, literally, you know?

Thomas Mooney 31:56

Right? You mentioned how you know, you're writing constantly, you're always you always got that bug going. But has there been like a, I don't know, like a watershed moment or watershed song for you specifically where you thought like, oh, that I've gotten like, somehow this is I've gotten so much better. You know, and I can point to this song specifically, is that has there been any moments like that where you kind of go Oh, shit, like, better now than I was, you know, a year ago. And I can specifically point to this moment. Is there anything like that?

Zach Bryan 32:33

Oh, of course. Yeah. This whole last year has felt like that from like June last year to now the writing that I've been doing, which I hate to say this because sometimes artists say this and they're they're talking out of their butt and. But I've actually practiced and written so much that I remember when I wrote Oklahoma City last year. That was that moment for me rose. Oh my goodness, I think my writing is getting better. So I just kept going kept going. And some of the songs that are on the upcoming album. They're like, in my in my eyes, like sitting around fires, all my friends and stuff, seen them those songs that they're pretty dang, they're a lot better than I was. And it's like, it's a really prideful thing for me, because my friends, my guitar playing friends and stuff, they'll look at me and be like, Damn, man, wait it like way to get better at your craft waiter, like, really hone in on that. And I didn't stop. Because I think I kind of fed off the critiques and like the four chord thing, or like the simple word thing, you know, and I was like, you don't screw it. Let's just keep going until until it sounds better. So oklahoma city will probably be that song. And I wrote a song called waterwell recently. And it like the writing on it. Just, I love it so much. And so I'll probably refer back to that 20 years from now and be like, that's the moment I think I wanted to do music forever, you

Thomas Mooney 33:49

know? Yeah, hopefully, I don't know if podcasts will be still a thing in 20 years. But if there it is, we'll have water I hope so. Interesting. You say Oklahoma City, because going through your catalogue, that's where I would have pinpointed there being a shift as well, because I think that's like, you can just tell that there's like that moment. And on Oklahoma City, that song specifically feels very much where there's still those rough edges, but it's like, that's necessarily rough edges, like because that's your style, but it feels like a very refined song.

Zach Bryan 34:29

It was that was a song that I sat down for two weeks and I went over every single word every single time and I was like, there's no way in hell. So this song and I know that kid doesn't deserve it, you know? And it wasn't going to get thing back and people loved it or anything but I tried my hardest on the right thing for that. And it worked out really well. You know, like it obviously people know because that's the song that like I get a lot from people that are like, get some fear a lot. So Oklahoma City. That's probably that moment. I can't To this day, I'll sing that song every time I have my guitar just because it's so it means so much to me like a grandparent from and everything and it's just, it's beautiful. So that's it for me.

Thomas Mooney 35:14

Yeah. So obviously one of the things that people are drawn to you as far as, like, what they resonate with the songs is they feel very, very much as you mentioned a minute ago like that earnestness of small town America specifically, obviously, for you, Oklahoma, but, you know, sometimes rural America is rah, rah America, no matter where you're from, oh, yeah, easy, is that we're like, you know, a lot of these I know, like, a lot of songs are that first person kind of thing for you. But you know, you still have these character songs you still have these like narratives. You've gotten some of these murder ballads in there. Do you feel like you know you're all like you're drawing from these little I don't know Oklahoma characters that you've come across or people you knew in school back in the day or anything like that what's what's kind of like whenever you know, you draw from the most you feel

Zach Bryan 36:10

I want to become so not yet i don't think i don't think i'm as talented I don't think I'm that talented yet. I think I have a long way to go to where I can like really build narratives and make them like resonate with people but that's why I've been writing so many like story songs because I really want to get like that. Evan Felker. I don't know if you know that is but the lead singer Turnpike troubadours and the bird hunters, he, he has these characters in that song that give me goosebumps every time, but they're just like, it sounds like they're in his life. They sound like they're his friends. And I want to get to the point, right, and like john prine, for instance, obviously, he was just so so so good at like, making these characters up and making songs and not be about himself. But they still just sounded like they're about themselves. So that's what I'm working on now. Just to be all around songwriter and write songs. It means something to me, and also sounds like people like them. Where did this guy pull the story from? You know?

Thomas Mooney 37:03

Right? Well, I mean, like the storytelling, so I'll go ahead.

Zach Bryan 37:07

I was just saying paying attention, I think helps a lot too. Like I've really slowed down lately, and I started paying attention on board everyone around me and like, the little mannerisms and the little things about like sitting around fires or running around Oklahoma fields, barefoot, you know, stuff like that. I've really been just like, feeling everything and snow and everything out and being like, that's what I'm gonna write about, you know, so it's just, it's fun. It's a fun puzzle, etc.

Thomas Mooney 37:29

Yeah, like getting those kind of those scenes setters. Right. For those characters. Yeah.

Zach Bryan 37:35

Because it sounds like Dan was like in snow. The sun snow. People love that song. It's so like, the imagery and it's just crazy. And that's, I've only heard that from other people. I don't think that myself but I want to get back to that realm where the imagery is what matters the most like what you're looking at, not not like the not how catchy it is not the melody or anything. I want the imagery of the songs to be like, you're literally there, you know?

Thomas Mooney 38:01

Right? You mentioned bird hunters, as far as you know, with Turnpike. That very much is like, what you're able to like pinpoint those characters. And be like, Oh, those are real people. But so much of that song is the setting. So much of the setting in the house fire by Turnpike is the setting. You know,

Zach Bryan 38:22

oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, oh, grounded, you know, made up. Yeah. But they're obviously real in his life, at some point somewhere, somehow in a book or whatever. Like, they're just so real, like, you know, those people in your own personal life.

Thomas Mooney 38:38

Right. You know, one of the things that I going back to one of the YouTube videos, I remember you saying, I think it was, uh, let me see if I wrote it down here. On cold damn vampires. Like, before you go in, he talked about how, you know, your dad called you and said, you know, you gotta use the F word so much that kind of thing. And then like your buddies called and said, Is everything all right? Yeah, that's something that's really really funny because I feel like that's something a phase that every songwriter goes through. You know? Where? Oh, yeah, not everything is is the truth. How many of those conversations have you had with friends and family or like have you had to have those like, you know, not everything I write is gonna be dire injury.

Zach Bryan 39:25

Exactly. It gets so weird too because I feel like it's different if you're just like some kids sitting around a fire and you're like singing about death you know, and no one really knows who you are or whatever but like, with a following and everything if I'm trying to like be an artist. I think it does get really weird because like you have people in your life that you love and care about or like maybe ladies are like your freakin dad. I said or like whatever. And you're singing like love songs and you're you're singing like murder songs or you're singing songs about like addiction and stuff and people people will like hit you up and be like, Is this like a real like my buddy Tyler have gone outside like, Hey, is this one realer. This isn't really you being an artist. And I'm like real or he'll ask me stuff like that all the time. And it's just so funny because being a songwriter, so fun, because you can literally just make up whatever you want, whenever you want and make it interesting and creative. And it's just like the only job or occupation, you can do that. And, you know, besides being an author, of course, but you know,

Thomas Mooney 40:21

yeah, if that's something that's, I've had conversations with various songwriters as far as, like, where, you know, for some reason, like we always believe the art, the the songwriter, the as the narrator as, like, being always consistently the good guy, you know, because they kind of control the narrative. And I've had this conversation with BJ Barham, where, you know, everyone thinks that like, you know, I hope he breaks your heart. She's like, the most awful person in the world for breaking his heart. And like, we never like really think about it on the other way of like, Well, you know, like, he could be the bad guy.

Zach Bryan 41:00

You don't. You don't like in like, for instance, in snow when I'm like, the night you dumped out all the liquor I bought, you know, like, for some reason, in that song, everyone thinks I'm just like this freakin nebulon Oh, you know, freaking Loverboy and, but in reality, like, in my own real life when I was 18 like, I girl actually dumped liquor out at a bar one time because I was way too drunk, you know, and I was the bad guy and that song, you know, and but snow is such a pretty song that people don't even think about it. You know? It's so funny. It's so weird being a songwriter.

Thomas Mooney 41:33

Yeah, well, I mean, that's the same thing with like, Good lord Laurie. We always kind of think, man, Laurie broke his heart in that song. And it's like, now he's probably like, kind of be an asshole. And he probably ruined there's Yeah, there's always that other perspective. But it's, it's interesting how, you know, obviously, the person who's writing the song, we always just believe him as like, you know, that's the gospel truth. And sometimes it's like, yeah, you know, and I think like, a lot of songwriters are self aware of that. But it's always the audience who kind of sometimes forgets about that part.

Zach Bryan 42:09

Yeah, it's, it's wild to be in those shoes. But that's another thing though, like, like, I think being a songwriter is a really beautiful thing. Because you get to reflect as a songwriter, you get to reflect on all those things in the person, like the things that you've done, or that have happened, and you can share those with other people. Kind of like as that grandpa who's like, hey, I've been through this. You're not alone. I've been through this. Here's how you don't do it. You know, it's really cool.

Thomas Mooney 42:40

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you've mentioned obviously how you know like the origins of those first records you you're cutting records with, with buddies and stuff. You know you you just released the the EP, I guess last year and then you guys released the live at Studio A recordings that you did with Dave Cobb. How, how was that? So? Was that drastically different for you? Or like what was what's it been like? I guess like, you know, going into a quote unquote professional studio, where you know, all these fucking crazy amazing songs have been cutting the history of these places. what's what's been like that approach for you?

Zach Bryan 46:01

Personally, I thought man just so chaotic because being in the Navy and having to deal logistically with like, recording the freakin EP that way and having a record of Tom and I get to Nashville and stuff, it was just crazy. First of all, and second of all, like I almost feel like my, my chops aren't there yet to be in the Honestly, I feel like me always be in this like, shoot for me. It's kind of guys my own personal subconscious fear that I'm not good enough to be in a studio yet. Like I kind of want to. I don't want to make my songs good enough to even be in a studio, you know, like, even put the effort into it, you know? So it was like it was a golden record those records and you're looking at these amazing producers and like, you know, when you doubt yourself, you like look down look at the producer and you're like, why is this guy working on the song You know, he doesn't have time for this. Kind of like that. But it was the most amazing experience like I felt so blessed and lucky to just be this Podunk okie boy just freakin running around with these these great a great a guys and it was just so. So interesting. I never thought in a million years, you

Thomas Mooney 47:08

know? Yeah. Well, that's it's so interesting right there because I think it's you. I don't know. I'm assuming like anyone who becomes an artist, you kind of always want to work with these people who have worked with some of your heroes, right? You want to, of course get in these places. Mm. Like, you're almost going like, Oh, shit, do I belong here? It's the the Oh, I can't even think what it's called. Fuck, I can't remember what it's called. You're not ready. As you were saying right there. You're not. You feel like you're not ready for it. And just like, oh, Can Can we do this later?

Zach Bryan 47:49

And can I do this in three or four years when I got freakin hurt by friggin Travis retina or whatever? And like, not really. But you know what I'm saying? Like, like, I've always just been waiting on that song that I'm like, Oh, this is the one that I need to go. But like, boys down in Texas, it's like they think I'm absolutely batshit crazy. Because they're like, I taught like working with Cobb and stuff. Like, did you work with Dave Cobb? Like, that's insane. And I don't look at it like that. So everyone just always thinks I'm just nuts. Because I'm not like, a nerd about that stuff. I'm not like pining to work with anybody. I don't like, really want to, I don't have like, these actual, like, if I don't work with this specific person, I'm not successful or whatever. I'm seriously just that kid who's writing music and just like seeing what happens, you know, like, there's not really anyone in my life where I would, I would die to work with and play with. And these guys who were down to Texas and stuff they're like would die to work with you know, and it's, I feel like almost like they gave it to the wrong guy because I'm pretty, pretty content in most situations. I don't need anything fancy. I don't need anything. Crazy. But here I am, like getting to do all this like crazy, amazing stuff that I'm so thankful for. You know? Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 49:01

Yeah, what I was looking for is imposter syndrome. I think like a lot of us can have that feeling of like,

Zach Bryan 49:09

yeah, that's the perfect way to perfectly explain it.

Thomas Mooney 49:13

Yeah, well, speaking of, you know, place that is a little bit bigger and kind of like just one of those things everyone fucking knows. And it's far from the Oklahoma back porch. Grand Ole Opry. You know, you played that about a month ago. What got me too, like, you know, how that even what what's it like going to the Grand Ole Opry and you're playing and like, take me through like the first step of that day.

Zach Bryan 49:41

That's imposter syndrome syndrome right there. I friggin we got we were we were Salvatore, so I was playing the Opry oppression had been so celebratory until after the night before we got lost in the opera. And so I think this is a good start. And so we wake up, I wake up, I got like 20 people, that's my whole family's there. So we just came off from the gym. up on everyone's like Walker on national roll at being tourists and stuff and I'm like, dude, I'm on national right now and I'm gonna put the operating for hours, what am I doing? And I just felt like an out of body experience. And I got there and everyone was so kind and like they really didn't even let me practice my own songs, but in a good way, they're just so good. You just play them and they play behind you, you know? I mean, they did let me practice him, but he's like two minutes on stage off stage. Have fun. And I'm like, Alrighty, let's do it.

Thomas Mooney 50:32

shoot off the hip. That's what it is. Yep.

Zach Bryan 50:35

Yep. shoot from the hip, man. I'm telling you, it's time to live the rest of my life because it seemed to work so far.

Thomas Mooney 50:43

Yeah, that's why that's whenever you realize, you know, like, all those guys are like, Oh, shit, these are like professionals, they don't even have to play. Like before, and they're just reading it and they just know exactly what's gonna,

Zach Bryan 50:55

when you hear it, and they're like, Okay, this is beautiful. Awesome. I'll do this. Just so crazy.

Thomas Mooney 51:02

Yeah, I wonder like, obviously, you're gonna be cutting a record Pretty soon, or you're in the process. somewhere in the middle of that, whatever it is. You know, the Have you? Has it been one of those things where like, obviously, it's one thing to explain to your buddies, like, hey, again, we this is the feeling of what I want on here. Is it different, like explaining it to you know, quote, unquote, professionals, where you're like, I want something that feels like, insert, like a reference here. Is that

Zach Bryan 51:33

Yeah, I got a really, I got to really like learn how to talk because I, like I said, I do have that like, weird imposter thing, where like, I don't feel like I deserve to be in rooms with the professionals. So like, when someone does something that I kind of don't like, but they're a professional, you know, so I'm not gonna say anything to him. I really got to get over that to where I'm like, Hey, now because I know I produced I like basically produced the whole thing in my notebook. I know exactly where I want each sound to be. And I know for a fact I'm gonna have to kind of get my guts up when I when I go record it because I I'm going to be really really picky about, like, where the instrumentation is and all that. But yeah, it is. It's like a huge it's a huge difference because your buddies you can go Hey, dude, look off, like play it here. Like get down idiot, you know, like, You're so bad, but freshmen, you can't really walk in there. Oh, that's what I was nervous with time. So I just spent so much like, we recorded so many songs just like drunk and frickin stupid and laughing our asses off and stuff. I went to college and it was all freakin game game day stuff. I was like, Oh, all right.

Thomas Mooney 52:32

Yeah, and of course, like he's just been the as far as like, you know, working with with the guys and girls who have been you know, really forming American in country music as of late and I'm in this Dave Cobb right like the his bowls and the whiskey Myers is and the sterols and, and so on. I mean, guys got a track record. Oh, yeah. It's just insane. Does he? Does he wear the denim jacket? No matter what, or is he?

Zach Bryan 53:06

Because he was wearing a worn an Aztec jacket when I was there. He was getting more festive. Yeah, it was like white and had patterns on alright. I never I'll never forget it.

Thomas Mooney 53:20

I think like all of his like, promo photos are him in a denim jacket. I just always like picture him doing everything and the denim jacket now just because

Zach Bryan 53:29

that's the he goes home and he's cooking dinner just when the denim jacket goes to sleep denim jacket. Yeah, well, I

Thomas Mooney 53:36

mean, like, I know it's clearly not the case. But that's what's always funny about promo photos. You know, you get dressed up real super nice. And then I'm always like, man, those guys like that's what they just probably look at look like no matter what you know, they're just going to oh yeah supermarket

Zach Bryan 53:52

and it's so yeah, it's so weird to think about it like a like a huge artists just like on their back legs, like a grocery store or whatever.

Thomas Mooney 54:00

Yeah, obviously, as you mentioned a minute ago, and we've been talking this whole time about really that busy schedule. You know, being in the Navy, just having like these weird hours. That means like you've not been playing that many shows out in front of live crowds. You've not really really gone on like, you know, a month tour or something like that. Is that something that like yeah, that's like what you're more than anything else. You're just kind of anticipating going forward.

Zach Bryan 54:31

Exactly. I'm really excited to play that guy. I feel like I'm itching for it to get to play that show in North Carolina on the second but um man I don't know how I feel about touring yet. I haven't I want to go on one and to see how I feel better go on like a month run like you said and then no one's I really want to do like I'm not Bob Dylan, obviously but Bob Dylan is like a recording artists for like a long time he never taught I don't think he didn't work for like a long time. Just he was a recording artist. I'm nowhere near the size mark. out of him, but I'm just saying like, those exists. So I was thinking about just come back to Oklahoma for a while and freakin write music, you know, write music and recording it and calling it good. But then again, like, all these people have been anticipating me going on tour and playing the music didn't plan for last two years live. So I'm so stoked.

Thomas Mooney 55:19

Yeah, what do you think as far as like that show? What do you want that to be? Are you wanting it to be more of the theater show? Or like, you know, small, small bar kind of intimate site?

Zach Bryan 55:33

Well, I mean, I want it to be like theaters man. I'm like, I've pushed on primer for 600 people in a row screen in my lyrics. And I want to feel that again, because I was just incredible. And now I'm a little bit better. So I feel like it would be just like 10 times more rowdy that I don't know people. I know when shoulders played at the paramount in Seattle. We were screaming his lyrics, but no one else was everyone was kind of just listening. And I'm like, this very tired shoulders. What are y'all doing? Yeah, and it was cool. The solid and loving but Yeah, I do. Go ahead. Oh, no, I was just gonna say I do plan on going on a tour eventually. Just see I feel about it. But going back to Oklahoma would work just fine with me too.

Thomas Mooney 56:13

Well, that's if you go back to Oklahoma, and you just play a little small. Run around the board. Just Yeah, do that kind of thing. Just the small bars and just never tell anyone where you're gonna play at? Just kind of like five minutes beforehand. Hey, guys, I'm gonna be pointed out what problem shows? Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah. That'd be so sick. What I was gonna say though, is like I live in Lubbock. And whenever Childers released purgatory of all places is, like, quote, unquote, like, a first CD release show was in Amarillo. And so me one of my buddies drove up there and obviously saw at a at a bar called hoots pub. And it was like, obviously a great show. But like what what I found so fascinating was that a like all these kids do those songs. I wasn't like sometimes Amarillo can be hit or miss on stuff like that. But it was like, as I described it to one of my friends was like, a lot of these kids are acting like this is the first time they've ever seen music and there's something really really amazing about that. And I'm not like, you know, poking fun of them. But that's how like, passionate they were about it. And that was really, really amazing. Because sometimes, you know, sometimes people don't get it and they're out of barter during but that first children's show I don't know if he's gonna be coming back and playing.

Zach Bryan 57:34

Yeah, dad. Yeah, I do know that's that's how pineville fell. It was like no one had ever heard anyone say any words ever? Because everyone was like screaming the entire time. It was just so the energy there was just absolutely huge. Probably the best night of my life I'll never forget. Never forget it as long as I live and they sent me like a flag and a shirt and everything and those men that the my friend everything but everyone's still knew the word so everyone was just singing as loud as they could in this alley, you know, and I didn't have a microphone, but the concert went on for like, an hour longer.

Thomas Mooney 58:07

I was gonna say about like you do in the YouTube videos. You've had like the, what are they called? Like the, the Bustan Bronco, the Belton Bronco, the Belgian Bronco. Yeah, shins there How do you like doing that as far as like you know kind of you know where you're not the the main focus you're you're bringing in other songwriters and just letting them play a song or two in the back of the bronco

Zach Bryan 58:37

Dude, I love it like, last time you bought like my videography or the or like I I got the camera production of a fridge. I love video and I love production. I love editing videos, but I also love the music and I want people to know that I don't think my shit doesn't stink you know, all people to know that I'm I know that I don't deserve to be in the shoes that I'm in and if I have this platform, I'm going to use it to like bring actual artists to the stage. You know? Like what let real talent be seen like, like Jonathan Payton and Abby that the last one we did they were like, seriously some of the most beautiful people who had the most beautiful voices and I'm like, why the hell? Why the hell am I day when these these guys just floating around? That's kind of why I do it. But also just a blast and freakin roll around drinking some beers and busting out some music.

Thomas Mooney 59:24

Yeah, well, I mean, that's what I got what I've kind of envisioned right there is that part? It's like, yeah, the Oh, yeah. The ride along and like, you know, the session. That's cool. But I also get to just like, hang out and talk about music and, you know, drink some beer around a campfire.

Zach Bryan 59:41

It's sick. Yeah. And they'll come out here and we'll just like hang out. I want to say no, I usually said I tell her whatever. But there's a fire pit usually everywhere. So we're just all like, kind of kick it just ride around and talk about music. Like you said from all over. It's just it's a blast.

Thomas Mooney 59:56

Yeah, one of the things I noticed in that video is you got like a lot of air fresh. Understanding from the

Zach Bryan 1:00:02

rearview mirror. Yeah, yeah, it can smell so bad in there. But yeah, that's funny. Yeah, I just I've never had I've never had the goalie to friggin take take them off, but I get known

Thomas Mooney 1:00:14

as a person I noticed when I was watching like shit, like 25 how many trees you need? But, yeah, um, yeah, it's been really great talking to you. Thanks so much for taking some time. Appreciate when I started here.

All right, that is it for this one with Zack. Brian, be sure to check out our presenting partners desert door and the blue light live. I don't know. Maybe we can get Zach at the blue light sometime. There's a thought for you. Again, subscribe if you haven't just yet. Check out the Patreon, the merge store, and so on. And yeah, I'll see y'all later this week for another episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai