173: John R. Miller

On Episode 173, we're joined by West Virginia singer-songwriter John R. Miller. This week, Miller announced that his forthcoming album, Depreciated, will be out July 16 via Rounder Records. In conjunction with the announcement, he released the stirring and rich Appalachia epic "Shenandoah Shakedown." During this one, we talk about recording Depreciated in Nashville, writing about his native West Virginian roots, and how the past year provided him with the time to find more discipline in his craft.

This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol. In addition, this episode is sponsored by WYLD Gallery and The Blue Light Live.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:01

Hey y'all Welcome back to New slang. I'm your faithful host music journalist Thomas Mooney for Episode 173. I'm joined by West Virginia's john R. Miller. If you haven't heard of john, you're in store for a real treat with this one. Hell, even if you have, it still applies. Yesterday, john announced that his upcoming album depreciated will be coming out July 16. I just really loved the title of that record depreciated. In conjunction, he released a new tune found on the album, as well called Shannon doe is Shakedown. It's a rich, vivid dark and haunting Appalachia epic. And really, that's how much have depreciated plays out. It's rich and vivid storytelling that draws back to this dark and haunted but beautiful and complex part of our country. It's rich and vivid instrumentation, that Sonic palette, it just really glows this dark, organic green with moonlight fiddle, a touch of pedal steel, and some funk grooves that kick in when necessary. Also Shenandoah Shakedown, it isn't the only song from depreciated. that's currently out. Back in March and April, john released looking over my shoulder and Faustina, I'd highly encourage y'all to go check those out as well. And hopefully they will hold you over until mid July when the album is fully released. Today's presenting partner is our pals over at Desert door, Texas SoTL. If you've been listening to new slang for really any amount of time, you'll know that desert door is one of my all time favorite premium, high quality spirits. If you haven't or aren't sure what exactly a sotol is. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that's going to up the game on your liquor cabinet. For starters, the best reference point that I can point you to is to think about a tequila or a Moscow. Do you feel that Western desert that text is ruggedness? Okay, Soto is like that, but a little bit more refined, smooth and fragrant. It intrigues the palate and offers these hints of vanilla and citrus, there's an earthiness that often sends me right back to my trans Pecos some Far West Texas roots. There's plenty to love about desert door. For me, it all starts right there. a close second is just how versatile desert door really is. You can go full highbrow and experiment with concocting a variety of cocktails that call for muddling fresh fruit sprigs of time sticks of cinnamon, it's perfect for that world. If you're a little bit more down home, if you've just rolled up the sleeves of your denim Wrangler button up, it's perfect for that as well. If you're just designing something that's short and sweet, it hits the mark every time does adore is genuine and authentically West Texan. It's inherently West Texan. They harvest Soto plants out in the wild and are knowledgeable conservationists at heart. That's obviously something incredibly important to me. They shine a light on what makes West Texas special and unique and worth preserving and keeping it safe from exploitation. Right now, you can find desert door all over Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, and there's budding numbers in places like New Mexico, Arizona, California and Georgia. Best thing you can do is to check out desert door.com to find where desert door is locally. Again, that's desert door.com.

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John R. Miller 5:56

Well, funnily enough, this one we actually recorded last January, January of 2020. So we actually had it all kind of tracked and ready to go, like, just before everything kind of shut down. And we we were we were kind of kind of wondering, you know, what was, like everybody else, kind of wondering what we were going to do with it, or if we were going to do anything with it, or if it was just, this was just, you know, yeah. So, you know, it kind of, kind of sat on it and ended up you know, talking to talking to some of the folks over at rounder, and it turned out, they had some interest in putting the record out. So I think for the you know, for this record, and we ended up sitting on it for a long time before it's, it's, I guess it's coming out in July. So for this one, it may have actually sort of, you know, been to our benefit to just have something, you know, kind of in the back. And, you know, that has also allowed me to sort of focus on getting back to writing and doing some other stuff in this time, too. So, just sort of the way it worked out.

Thomas Mooney 7:24

Yeah, it feels like that's such a double edged sword as far as, you know, having something in the bag like that something ready to go because it you know, I like you know, musicians and, you know, artists as far as having something like that sometimes it's like just burning a hole in the pocket.

John R. Miller 7:41

Yeah. Are you feels like I can get get get spoiled, you know? You know, I feel like for, for me, everything sort of has, has like a sell by date. But I think everybody probably feels that way everybody kind of gets gets gets a little tired of hearing their own stuff after a while. So

Thomas Mooney 8:10

yeah, well, it's that whole thing where, you know, you've you've even like, in just like the, if we cut out, if you just are not even cut out, let's just like if you had all the hours and the time spent with the songs, you know, at the end of the day, that's like shit, man, I've listened to this way more than anyone else could ever imagine. And, you know, by the time it's even released, you know, or even announced, you've been around the songs forever. And, you know, that's, that's where all the I'm kind of already. I'm not over him, but I'm like, over just having them sitting here. You know, I'm ready to move on to the next thing. Yeah, sure. That's I feel like that's just you know, that that I guess like that's necessary for artistry because you're always kind of you know, needing to move on and and find that next thing that that moves you to to put to paper you know pain or whatever the case is. But you know, the the that I guess this past year has just been really difficult for for that whole thing the the limbo in limbo because it wasn't ever like a at the very beginning of the quarantine. No one ever just said, Hey, just put a pause for the next year. It was always like, out like six weeks at a time. Yeah.

John R. Miller 9:39

Yeah. We're kind of just taking everything just a couple of days at a time just like everybody else. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 9:52

Yeah, well, when it so obviously you said you guys recorded back in January of 2020. Oh, You know, I guess like this, this pasture gave you time to, to do all the stuff with the record as far as taking time to, you know, the all the stuff that's quote unquote, like the boring stuff as far as mixing and mastering and you know, getting all the the T's crossed the i's dotted and as you said, as you mentioned, you know, reaching out to rounder, and finding out there's mutual interest between y'all. So, as far as like, that goes, like, what do you think like, this process has been easier, or you feel like in the past, it's been a little bit easier, just because it's been probably a little bit more of a rapid pace to it. As far as all the the stuff post recording.

John R. Miller 10:51

Well, this actually, as far as the post production recording stuff goes, this is, this is kind of the first time that I've ever done a record like with, with a producer, like in a studio. It's all it's all been pretty, pretty dry with friends and, and stuff like that, in the past. And this, this, the technical aspects of the record itself got got done pretty quickly, once we were done tracking, you know, within it within a few weeks. In the past, it's you know, it's kind of been up to different schedules, or, you know, whenever it's whenever it's done, it's done. But, uh, this is the, this is the first time I've kind of done it this way, we've always sort of done it on our own with which with most bands that I've been involved with, too, so it's pretty, it's pretty exciting. But it's also once a once it was done was kind of when the when the waiting game started, you know,

Thomas Mooney 11:52

right. And this time you guys recorded over and at the sound Emporium in Nashville, which you ever seen, like a quote that you described, that I really, really loved and that was like, that has lived in feeling. I feel like sometimes places like that can have, you know, sterile kind of connotation. or feeling. But that lived in feeling is is is a nice way to describe a place.

John R. Miller 12:21

And then it's a it's a super vibey room. I think it's been there. The sound importance been there since like the 1960s it was a cowboy jack Clements studio. Super, super cool place. And we did it and I got to do in studio Hey there, which is just really beautiful. Like, kinda also lots of wood paneling and an old, old fixtures that are still hanging around. It's, it feels it's got sort of a living room vibe. You know, it's, it's, it's really nice. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it sounds great in there, too.

Thomas Mooney 13:00

Yeah. How has it been, you know, this been like, the first time working with some, you know, some accomplished producers and in a space like that, as far as being able to explore that space. How long did you guys record in there? And like, was that like, Did you guys try and keep it like in like a week, or like, you know, in a more of a smaller space of time, or was it kind of strung out over the course of a while, a day

John R. Miller 13:31

we did a pretty we did pretty quick. Sort of, I kind of went in went in there was a was a budget that saved up from just kind of touring on the road with people and we we had allocated three days, we did like a Monday through Wednesday, and did all the tracking in those days. So it was a it was pretty quick. Unfortunately, I got to do it with my regular band. For the most part we've played I played a lot over the last few years together. So it's pretty, it's pretty easy to kind of get in there and and work it out. And Justin Francis, the engineer and producer of the record is he's he's an old buddy that I've known for a really long time and he's done like kind of mixing and mastering stuff for projects that have done in the past and the the other. The other guy kind of in the producing role is Adam Meister Han's who I know from way back in West Virginia, we've played in bands together for many years and he's kind of he's kind of a guy down here now. In a really kind of in demand guitar player. He's really great. So we kind of did one day of sort of like, pre pre production like out at my house, which at the time was kind of out northwest of town and a little area called Bell's bend And then we just hit the ground running the next weekend in the studio.

Thomas Mooney 15:08

Yeah, I always love when, when a record kind of comes that that quickly. Because like, you know, there's no wrong way to make a record, there's no right way to make a record but I always love when it's it's in that just trying to capture that that time period where it's not going to try and be like where you're trying to make it absolutely, you know, pristine, shiny. This again, like this record right here you feel like those songs are have been around forever. And yet, like the the recording, it feels very much that same way as far as like having where it's comfortable within itself where it's not trying to be, you know, glossy or anything.

John R. Miller 15:56

Yeah, I that that was that was pretty intentional. I think we can all agree that, you know, what we've been sort of working towards, over the past couple of years with the band was we kind of wanted to, to be pretty truthful with our documentation of that, you know, we we didn't tweet, we didn't tweak much. Before we went in there and did it we we were we were mostly ready to kind of do it the way we had been. And you know, after after that we did have we did have a day of we had Robbie crowd come in and play some some keys. He did some some some worldly and some v3. And we got to have Russ Paul come in and do some pedal steel and a couple tracks which we were very lucky to get both of them and kind of those were the only overdubs that we really did. After the fact everything else was tracked live, you know, vocals and all

Thomas Mooney 16:56

right, yeah, like they really add it and provide like a lot of warmth, that I feel. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by wild gallery, based in Austin, Texas wild gallery is Austin's only Art Gallery, featuring Native American art, head on over to WYLD dot gallery to see their vast array of traditional and contemporary art by Native American artists. Currently, they are a virtual gallery. You can still make appointments on their website if you're wanting to purchase a specific painting in person. But of course, the beauty of them being virtual is that you're able to see and buy from your home without tracking all the way to Austin. While Newsline definitely focuses on music. I always love speaking with songwriters about those other mediums that they explore. Often that's through painting and drawing the visual arts. And since I'm a West Texas native, I've long been drawn to the history, the stories, traditions and heritage of Native Americans, especially those that were out here in the western frontier. And that is what's so great about Wilde gallery. All the artists featured are Native American, and they are telling stories about Native Americans. These scroll through their collection, you'll see a wide range of styles as well. There's definitely some American west and some bold pop art is more of that traditional Fine Art like oil on canvas, as well as those that are influenced by Native American traditions. My parents, they always had paintings hanging around the house or their offices that were inspired by West Texas and Native Americans. And now I do as well, especially here in my office, which I'll let you guess where the latest print is from. As a journalist, I do feel like the most intimidating part is staring at a blank white page. And of course, you don't have to be a journalist to be staring at a white blank page. I know a lot of y'all do that. What I'm saying though, is Don't let your walls suffer from that same white bland this go visit wild gallery, I guarantee you you will find something that moves you and that you'll want hanging in your home. Again, that's wild with a Y, go visit w y LD dot gallery. links will be in the show notes as well. Okay, let's get back to the episode. I'm always interested in how take me I guess like through the process of how you guys how you went from whatever the number of songs was between that that you that potentially could have been on this record to to what ended up on the album. What was that process like as far as figuring out what those puzzle pieces were? Well,

John R. Miller 19:51

there were only we ended up only only tracking 12 and boiled it down to 11 I think I think I was kind of kind of what we were just what we were ready with. There's a couple of songs on there that are actually a little older that had kind of been reworked. And the rest of them are, are pretty new, but it's mostly just what we had been doing over the last couple years on the road. And I hadn't really been writing at a super fast clip, the past few years. Just kind of, kind of let it get away from me for a little bit and former SCADA Well, this is what I got. So let's do the, you know.

Thomas Mooney 20:44

Yeah, it's, it's interesting. The, do you feel like you wrote a bunch younger when you were younger? And that, like, I guess, like, maybe you pick and choose a little bit more? What's that about? As far as you know, not writing at the same clip?

John R. Miller 21:02

Yeah, well, I you know, I'd like to think that my, my inner editor has gotten a little more a little better at his job, but I don't know. I think I think just sort of life life shifting around and everything I had, I couldn't always find good times to write. I wouldn't until wouldn't until even the last like six months that I really got back to, to writing to writing a lot again. But, uh, yeah, when I was younger, I'd kind of just write all the time and throw throw anything at the wall, you know, and then most, most of it wouldn't stick. And then, you know, looking back, some of it probably shouldn't have that. It's a, I think, you know, there's, that's where the editor comes in, you kind of hope that you were fine that over the years, but I also appreciate when, when people just, you know, do the do the Dylan thing and just put in just, let's, let's do it, put it out and move on, you know?

Thomas Mooney 22:13

Yeah, it's, that's, I think, like, every kind of young songwriters, that, that that period of time where it's like, just like the piss and vinegar kind of stage. The Yeah, the old joke, like, you know, there's a song in there somewhere, kind of thing and, you know, young songwriter will find a song getting there. So, like, it doesn't, like, you know, sometimes I think, like we, I mean, that's perfectly fine. Some stuffs probably been some great stuffs been written just by the practice, if you will, if you just write in to write, but

John R. Miller 22:49

yeah, I think I think you get, I think you get better stuff, the more you, the more you write, you know, it really isn't, I've started to believe that it really kind of is quality, or quantity over, over quality, you know, not not in what you put out, but in, where you end up, what you end up with, I think you end up with a lot more stuff that you end up enjoying, or feeling good about, you know, just the more that you do it. So, you know, trying to trying to get up every day and, and, you know, chip away at it is kind of the the approach now, but it is you know, you never know what you never really know what you're gonna get necessarily.

Thomas Mooney 23:37

Right? The I guess like, you know, just having the, you know, the, what, what am I looking for here? The I'm blanking on what I'm trying to say. I know what you're saying as far as like, you know, just doing it every day. Because like sometimes, like just kind of, you know, setting allowing yourself to be in the moment where if something comes across, you know, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think discipline of it, I guess.

John R. Miller 24:12

Yeah, there's, there's definitely, there's definitely a lot of that and I think it's, I think you got to be really you got to be willing to, to write bad stuff. I think I think it's, it's kind of it's kind of necessary, you got to you gotta kind of write bad stuff before you get around to stuff that you can stand behind, you know.

Unknown Speaker 24:36

Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 24:37

I think like, That happens a lot when and when you're kind of, you know, you mentioned like, sometimes, hopefully, like your, your, your inner editor knows what's right. What's best, what's better, all that kind of stuff. But you also have to have that allowance of like, allowing yourself to say something stupid, you know, because it may end up getting you to a point of like, there being a little bit of a nugget in there somewhere that ends up being something great.

John R. Miller 25:09

It's just sift and you gotta throw, you gotta, you got to dip it in throat for everything in the sieve, you know? Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 25:19

panning for gold. Yeah, exactly. So like, I guess, like one of my favorite things about songwriting. And listening to music has always been just how artists like capture these little regions of America, or the world really, but specifically with American music, American songwriters, what I love so much is the idioms or the expressions that people use, that just kind of capture that county that they're from, or that region. And there's something really, really cool about how even someone from you know, you're from West Virginia, I'm from, you know, Texas, where that's, you know, states apart different kinds of landscapes. But how, like, even just an expression that I may not be familiar with, will transcend the space? And you can you're able to, like, I guess, you know, perfectly capture it and other people were able to fully understand it. What's it is that is that, like an aspect of your songwriting, that you feel like you've done a great job of, as far as like capturing, you know, wife in the panhandle of West Virginia?

John R. Miller 26:45

Well, I don't know if I don't know, if it's ever really been a very intentional thing. And I, I, you know, I hope that I haven't been, you know, just disingenuous about that, you know, that that can be sort of a complicated thing, you know, I don't know that I would really claim to represent any sort of place in any sort of way. But, uh, you know, I feel like more so like the last, like, I've been kind of traveling more, more often than not the last 10 years or so, maybe a little more. And so I almost almost kind of feel sort of, like a, like, I've been untethered to any sort of particular place to even be able to sort of write from but, you know, I, I hope that, you know, if somebody sort of read reads into it, and can sort of put themselves in that place, that it's, it's, it comes across as genuine, because, you know, just try to try to do that.

Thomas Mooney 28:07

Right. I think that a lot of times, it does taking, it does take that getting away from some place to to actually kind of, you know, examine it properly. You know, I guess like, there's two routes you could really do is, you know, that would that songwriter who who's never really left home, you know, and some, I guess, maybe like in the you know, like the the William Faulkner kind of way of like, just never leaving the South. Yeah, finding the root the truth of what the South was, of his specific little pocket in his, you know, his County, if you will. But then also there's, there's something to the traveler who, you know, kind of realizes that, you know, life is very, very special and specific because he's been, he's gotten away.

John R. Miller 29:03

Yeah, I think there's something I think there's something to that I think for, for me, I probably write more about home when I'm not there. And then I read probably more about traveling when I'm back home. Or, you know, gain inspiration from those experiences I've been down in. I've been down in the Nashville area for like the past three or four years and I feel like since I've been down here I've been writing more about home than I ever have before, you know, especially this this last year. I haven't really gotten to go up there very much so it's it's on my mind a lot.

Thomas Mooney 29:42

This episode of new slang is brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Blue Light has long been the heart and soul of the Lubbock singer songwriter scene, and has been a home away from home for some of Texas Americana, country and rock'n'roll is finest over the years. Talk. With 99.9% of the Songwriters who have come out of Lubbock and the panhandle at large over the past 20 years, and they'll point to just how integral and necessary the blue light is, with live music and touring slowly but surely coming back spots like the blue light, or getting back to their usual ways as well. That means music every night of the week. Do you want to see that schedule? Well, I've got a few options for you. One, go to their socials and give them a follow up that is at blue light live on Twitter, at the blue light live on Instagram. And of course, by just searching the blue black live on Facebook, they're consistently posting that week's lineup of shows, as well as those heavy hitters that ought to be on your calendar that are coming up on the horizon. To check out blue light lubbock.com as well, there, they have the full schedule, the cover charges, time, any of those specials that may be happening while they're go check out their merge page. They have a wide range of hats, koozies, hoodies, sweaters, beanies, jackets, and so much more. You can of course get all of your merchant age, when do you go see your favorite band, take the stage at blue light, just ask the bartender and they will get you all set. Speaking of which, that's another great way of seeing who's playing there. Just go to the blue light. It's at 1806 Buddy Holly Avenue here in Lubbock, Texas. And of course, again, that is blue light, loving, calm. I'll throw a link into the show notes to maybe I'll see you there. Okay, let's get back to the show.

Yeah, like that's, it's, I don't know, for me. So like, I'm from a small town in West Texas. And growing up there, like always just kind of didn't want to be there. You know? And yeah, took like getting out. And of course, like, I'm still I live in West Texas, essentially, still. But still like you. You start realizing like all the little things that, that make it specific, and special, and maybe not even special, in a good way just special and unique. Because it's different.

John R. Miller 32:24

Yeah, yeah, I think I think that kind of perspective can can really lend itself well, to well to, to writing and, you know, the way that you the way that you can look at a place I was kind of gonna grow up in the panhandle and live in a small town I really, I always really, like was just kind of desperate to, to get out. You know, I think that's sort of a common common theme with a lot of kids. No, that's it. It's, it's not until you really get away from a place that you can sort of look at it and appreciate it. I guess more objectively?

Thomas Mooney 33:16

Yeah, there's a, I guess, like, the punk band Titus and dronicus. Yeah, they, one of my favorite records is the monitor that they released. I don't know, probably, like 10 years ago now at least. But there's a song on there called, I guess, I'm blanking on the name. It's like a more perfect union, where kind of like, the, the whole thing is, like trying to get out of New Jersey. And like, the parallels between that and of course, like that whole records kind of about the Civil War and stuff. But basically, the whole point of like, That song is like how you're trying to work to get out of wherever you're from. In his case, in New Jersey, you go to this like place that you think is going to be special and different. And then you realize, like, you have the same problems, and it's the same place, it's the same places you've ever been. And, you know, I think there's something to that, too.

John R. Miller 34:17

Yeah, it's a it's a tale as old as time. That's always kind of looking for, you know, something out there. You know, especially when you're trying to write and stuff. I feel like you're always kind of, like, well, if I could just like have this new experience or this new experience, you know, I might find something, something more profound in it or something like that. But, you know, then you get out there and you're like, well, I got bars here too, you know?

Unknown Speaker 34:55

Yeah. Do you? I don't know like I always

Thomas Mooney 34:58

have like this complicated. relationship as far as with less taxes and that maybe maybe you are feeling the same thing. As far as I guess, like maybe like the romanticism, like sometimes like I think people romanticize or like romanticize West Texas, to the point where it's not even real. Do you feel like the same kind of thing where like, maybe they gloss over like the, the actual, like, real problems or they kind of like sweep the, you know, the folks who live there that are like, you know, working class under the rug, do you feel like the same kind of like complications with with like, you know, Appalachia?

John R. Miller 35:48

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think it's, it's been, maybe even more so. The last handful of years, you know, there's it could always sort of get a complicated perspective from, from other folks. You know, it's, it's an easy thing to to romanticize to, you know, there's a lot of beauty out there. And, you know, it feels it, there's a certain romanticized independence, I think. But that is easy to, easy to feel when you think about those places. And, you know, I, I do too, all the time. But it's, it's a very complicated place. And it's not as, not as kind of just binary as people maybe often imagined it to be. And it's a penny, anytime you have, you have an idea of what a place is like, in your head, it's never quite as accurate as when you get there and talk, talk to people and, you know, start to understand it from a different perspective. But they're there, there are a lot of different different kinds of folks doing different kinds of things, and West Virginia and Appalachia. That I think especially and and in media and everything kind of get kind of get glossed over. And it's it's really it's not it's not just one, it's not just one thing.

Thomas Mooney 37:43

Right. Yeah. Well, the way I compare what I always think about is like, I don't know if you're familiar with Marfa, Texas, or like the Prada Marfa. Yeah, yeah. I've been to Marfa. Yeah. Okay. So like the product morphos. Of course, like, this is really great. And I say great in quotes, like, you know, art installation out in the middle of nowhere. a spot for Instagram, photos. And it's always like, just like, you know, I guess like, fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with it. And like, it doesn't really bother me that much. But it's always like, that's just like a photo that doesn't really capture like, what that part of the West Texas is actually like, you know, and yet, I think like some people think that represents the quirkiness of West Texas or something, or. And it's like, well, you know, there's probably, there's probably a lot more people out here, digging ditches and postholes, you know, putting up fence then, you know, Instagram influencers and shit. And I'm assuming that there's got to be, you know, the same parallels for, you know, something that's going out on up there. As far as you know, just where, I guess, the average person in pop culture just as like a little, you know, Polaroid shot of what West Virginia is or of Appalachia, yet there's, like, you know, they're they're missing all of this stuff on the on the outside of that photo.

John R. Miller 39:29

Yeah, yeah. Very, very much so. And that's probably I you know, like you're saying, it's probably the same just about anywhere, we all get kind of a strange sort of, tunnel view of, of things through any any form of media or social media. But uh, it's hard to it's, it's hard for me to really think about what what what Folks who haven't spent a lot of time there might might think about or imagine it to be in West Virginia. Because when I, you know, when I think about it, it's a pretty, it's a pretty complicated place with, you know, a lot of a lot of beauty and a lot of, you know, a lot of a lot of hardship and, you know, a lot of great music and a lot of really great art and, and writers and just, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely got its own its own personality and its own its own troubles. Right.

Thomas Mooney 40:45

You know, you mentioned the other songwriters and the other artists from that area, obviously, like, it feels like right now that there's a lot of really great songwriters, you're being discovered, from, you know, the Kentucky's of the West Virginia's and just that entire region. Obviously, there's been great songwriters who have been coming out of there forever, but it feels like this past decade, there's maybe maybe like, we're seeing a highlight reel, if you will, or a golden era, a second golden era or something like that. Do the, like, I guess, like, here in Texas, maybe this is only a Texan thing, because people from Texas are always going to be the best The first thing that comes out of their mouth, so they're proud of every songwriter from Texas, but it's the same kind of feeling as far as like, do, you know, are people just the average person? Are they aware of like, you know, all the, the great art, if you will, that that's coming out of the area?

John R. Miller 41:48

You know, I'm not too sure about the average person's perception of what's what's going on, you know, I've kind of feel like I've kind of been living in a bubble for most of my life, you know, so I, like, I see all this stuff happening. And it's definitely, you know, Texas has a, you know, a long, rich kind of established very proud history of its, of its songwriters, and its artists and its writers and, and, you know, there there, there is definitely some of that in, you know, in West Virginia too. But a lot of the time, it does kind of feel like we're sort of looking out for ourselves. And trying to look out for each other, kind of, kind of within that, within that bubbles, like, now, it feels a lot more like we are trying to, we're not trying to but we are sort of flying under the radar. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how, how, you know, aware, you know, the average person, or even what that means might be might be aware of all the all the stuff going on, because I know, it's there, there definitely doesn't seem to be as as established of an infrastructure there as there are a lot of other places for you know, I guess kind of kind of getting, getting attention in that way or, you know, presenting your pure creativity, right. There aren't really like, a whole lot of really established avenues to do that. So we all you know, we growing up, we kind of just kind of assumed that was a given and we just have always been kind of pretty, pretty DIY about it.

Thomas Mooney 43:58

Right? Yeah. Like the, I think a lot of a lot of folks take the the infrastructure down here for granted. Because, you know, there's you know, every town has a place to play. And you know, it's all like the you know, it took time for there to be where even bars and venues down here in Texas went Hey, you know, we should have like a an in house engineer and sound guy and sound and all that kind of stuff. And that takes time where now that's the leg that Texas right now has up on most places in in the country because, you know, you can go play music, but it wasn't necessarily like that all the time. And that's one of those things, I guess I always fear too is like that bubble that you mentioned. Like if this is just the not actually fear, but you know, I'm saying as far as you know, am I out of touch, that kind of aspect. Like all kind of living in our own little, you know, Go chamber in some respects.

John R. Miller 45:02

Yeah. I mean, that is kind of the kind of the way it is these days anyhow. But yeah, I mean, there's, there's definitely a lot of people who who are working towards that kind of thing. There's a lot of there are quite a few people around West Virginia who have, you know, opened open venues and, you know, tried to try to get things going and do it. Right. And, and some of it, you know, as has really been working, and I hope that, you know, I hope that most everybody has managed to kind of make it through this past year, but it kind of, you know, sort of threw everything into uncertainty. And like I said, I haven't really been been been there very much recently. I heard a lot of people working to kind of create that network and maintain it and, you know, connect people with each other who are, you know, trying to trying to share their, their art or whatever they're working on. And there's a lot of there is a there is a community, under the radar as it may be, of people and a lot of and a lot of mutual respect there and everything. It's just it's pretty, it's pretty small and kind of grassroots, if you will, you know,

Thomas Mooney 46:34

I want to break one more time to talk about our pals over at Desert door and offer up a quick Thomas Mooney, cocktail minute, as I've said, probably 100 times by now, by no means am I a seasoned mixologist or bartender, but these have been some of my desert door go twos. For starters, let's just go with the tried and true range water, pop the top off the topo, Chico, take a good swig. Now pour in some desert door and top it off by throwing it if you lime wedges never fails. This one. It's so simple. It probably doesn't even count. But again, pretty foolproof. do the exact same thing. But get you a Mexican Coca Cola. I guess you can go with a regular one. But you're really cutting yourself short if you don't opt for the Mexican import variety. All right, here's the change up you've been waiting for. Desert door sangria. This one is prime for when you have company coming over and you aren't wanting to just be over there making six different drinks at a time. What you'll need is some desert door. Obviously, a bottle of red wine, honey, boiling water, apple cider, apple cider vinegar, some cinnamon sticks, a couple of apples and some time sprigs. I know that may sound intimidating, but trust me it's worth the prep. And honestly, it's pretty easy. For starters, get you a Punchbowl, add that honey, those cinnamon sticks and the boiling water together. Now you're going to want to stir that all up and let it cool down for about an hour. So remember, patience is a virtue. Once that's done, add some desert door and stir vigorously. Now add the one the cider and the vinegar and continue stirring until it's equally mixed. Now slice those apples up and toss them in. Put in those time sprigs as well. Now you can pour that over some ice and you have a modified sangria chef's kiss. Anyway, those have been some of my favorite go twos as of light. And remember, desert door is as versatile as vodka and more refined, smooth, complex and intriguing than tequila. It's rich and balanced. And whether you decide to keep it simple or want to experiment. Desert door is that perfect Texas spirit. There's plenty more recipes over at Desert door.com as well check out the show notes for a link. Alright, let's get back to the episode. This this record I hear that you're releasing in the summer. You've released a couple of singles. Already. By the time this episode is out, you'll have the third one out. And I was wanting to know like as far as Shenandoah Shakedown goes, what uh, take me back to like, writing that song. Do you remember like what it was that that kind of sparked that idea?

John R. Miller 49:36

Yeah. A few years ago. It was kind of after I had so I used to live in in shepherdstown, which is a pretty small town that runs along with Potomac River. It's really close to Harpers Ferry, which is where the confluence of the Shenandoah River and Potomac are and I lived it there for about 10 years before I moved down here. And this is basically my whole, my whole 20s. And I spent a lot of time on and around the river, it seemed like that was kind of the, the biggest, at least for me, that was kind of the biggest presence there really, it's kind of a kind of a river, a river rat, for lack of a better term, you know, but also sort of trying to, I guess it's sort of worked out in sort of vignette form, in the song, but I was sort of just trying to capture a little fragments of sort of the, I guess, the time spent there. And also kind of framing around the, the dissolution of a, of a long term relationship that ended up kind of, you know, leaving me kind of happen to leave. And, you know, or just, I guess, I, I guess I had wanted to leave for a while, in a way to sort of that I got to try something else out kind of thing. And when I, when I sort of, didn't really have much of a reason to stay anymore, I finally kind of stumbled, stumbled down here and, you know, can see the next place where I kind of knew the most couches to sleep on. And that's always just sort of, I don't know, it was sort of a way to process some of those some of those memories I guess, in a way, and ended up being sort of a pretty, pretty personal song that ended up making it to the record. So

Thomas Mooney 52:07

yeah, the that's obviously like, I think our people love the the personal, intimate storytelling of an artist. But I guess, like, there's always that balance of, you know, or I maybe like maybe even fear of, like, you know, sharing stuff that may be that you feel is too personal, or like too close to the truth. You know, and I guess like mixing and balancing that with, you know, character sketches and vignettes of, you know, folks that you've run across. What have you ever, like, how has that been? As far as an artist? Have you ever felt like, something's too too personal to share with the outside world? Um,

John R. Miller 52:57

no, not really. I mean, kind of, I guess, songwriting is sort of how I, how I process things. So I mean, certainly, there have been songs that I've written, where, where I might, might feel like, it's just a little too, you know, feels a little too vulnerable or something to me, and, you know, maybe that goes under the pile. But, you know, I, for I think, first and foremost, I kind of started song writing songs for that reason, and just to sort of process, things that would happen around me or, you know, things that I was feeling. And, you know, it's it is it is still that way, sometimes, but sort of

Thomas Mooney 53:53

Yeah, well, I mean, like, songwriting or just expression is like the, the, the truest form of kind of, like, some kind of therapy at the end of the day, you know, yeah, even like, obviously, just consuming art. I think like, like, sometimes we think of like, you know, older generations, especially with with men as like, not are being like anti therapy or something like that, but it's like, man, even these, these hardened older guys, they were listening to music and that was like, a form of therapy. You know, and I think like, there's something to that as far as you know, you know, writing down what what you're feeling, it makes things better. So, I mean, I get that for sure.

John R. Miller 54:41

Yeah. I you know, it's, it works. And it's free. So yeah.

Thomas Mooney 54:53

Going back to like the the writing process, like what, you know, you mentioned this pile, maybe it goes into that pile of stuff. If it's discarded or or, you know, put away, do you ever go back and like go through songs that, you know, scraps, I guess, if you will, or stuff that you've just kind of put away and try to, like, polish them? Or try and do anything? Or even just steal from them? if you will? I know it's not stealing necessarily, but you know, plucking the good stuff.

John R. Miller 55:22

Yeah, you know, definitely do some, some cherry picking, sometimes I've got like a pile of a pretty big pile of sort of just junk. And kind of separate that from the pile of stuff that I feel is like, you know, maybe close to something. And, and sometimes I'll pretty rarely go back and, like, try to try to pick something that I've essentially discarded and try to turn it into something, but there, I tend to keep it just because there's often I'll, I'll like just need all need to kind of look elsewhere for just like one missing piece of something. And sometimes I'll find that in, in something else. That never really never really made it out. You know? It's definitely it's worth it's worth keeping stuff. Just for that, you know, it's kind of kind of a scrap pile. Just spare parts.

Thomas Mooney 56:35

Yeah, the, you know, I think like, most of the Songwriters I know are are packrats at the end of the day, when it comes to last words and stuff like that.

John R. Miller 56:47

Yeah. If you got, if you got a few good tires, you don't want to throw away the whole, the whole thing, you know,

Thomas Mooney 56:56

yeah. You mentioned how the past six months or so have been a lot better creatively for you, as far as writing new stuff. Has that come with obviously, where for so long, you've you've been out on the road, where this has just been a moment of, you know, being a little bit more, being idle, if you will, being in a space where you're even just allowed to have some space to write some time. Is that do you think like, that's the biggest thing been the biggest thing?

John R. Miller 57:32

Yeah, absolutely. I think Finally, kind of, you know, it's sort of been a mixed blessing, I think finally getting to, to be stationary for so long. sort of gave me the gave me the mental space to, to really, like prop maybe process a lot of stuff. And know, I started trying to get into a better routine with it, you know, getting up early, and just trying to kind of knock it out, like first thing, every day, I'll try to sit down and, and just work on some stuff. And, you know, if it's, if I'm just banging my head against the wall, I'll usually just move on to some other stuff. But for the most part, like, having the space to kind of do that has been pretty, pretty fruitful. And I never really, I can never really do that on when I was traveling a lot, you know, it's a sometimes you know, you can you can sort of come up with something and in the middle of doing who knows what, and then you're like, Oh, I gotta work this thing out. But for the most part, I feel like the older I get, the more intentional I have to be about it. And, you know, the more time I have to kind of give give to it if it's going to give anything back to me.

Thomas Mooney 59:04

Yeah, the, I think that like I'm just a world class procrastinator. And I feel like there's there's plenty of stuff that I need to get done or need to work on. And I'll just put it off and put it off but usually I had to just like you just have to make yourself do it. And within those first five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever, you kind of forget like that's always the hardest part is just getting started. And so like oh yeah, you know, having the discipline the routine enough to to get past that. That initial part of starting. is what I feel is like the key for it all.

John R. Miller 59:49

Yeah, that's that is that is the hardest part for me to procrastinating is, is like the easiest and the hardest thing to do all at the same time. You know, you can't really shake the feeling that you should be doing it. But, you know, just sitting down and doing it sounds like, you know, you're trying, you got trying to climb a mountain or something. But I guess like, anytime you try to do that, it's just sort of one step at a time. It's hard to, it's if you're, if you're trying to think about sitting down, and I'm gonna write, I'm gonna write this whole thing, right now, it's a lot harder to get started than just like, I'm just gonna sit down, and, like, sit here with a piece of paper and pen for a little while, and, you know, one very incremental process for me these days.

Thomas Mooney 1:00:45

Yeah, and I think it goes back to, you know, allowing yourself to, to not necessarily think that the first thing that you're going to write down is going to be prolific and perfect. Because like, that's, I always get that stuck in my head, too. Whenever I'm writing about another artists or writing something is, you know, allowing, you're allowing myself to, to have like, the mistakes in there, or like, you know, even just make it as simple as possible. And then going back and like, you know, given all the the flowery aspects of it of the writing. Yeah. I'm also like, the the king of doing the, well, you know, it's a 1210. I can't start like, let me let me go ahead and do the, at one o'clock. Yeah.

John R. Miller 1:01:37

Yeah, like, I can only do this, if I have like, a whole hour ahead of me. And then you have like, an excuse not to do it. Like, I'm only gonna sit down to write if I've got three hours in which to do it, and I can just really get in there. And then, then you're like, well, I guess I didn't find three hours today. Oops, you know, but if you find five or 10 minutes, I think that's good, too.

Thomas Mooney 1:02:05

Yeah, what's what's kind of like your, if all conditions are kind of like, perfect? Do you have like a certain kind of, like, set up? cup of coffee? Maybe like that? What what's kind of like your go to?

John R. Miller 1:02:18

Oh, yeah, like, for like, three or four cups of coffee, probably. And usually smoke some weed and just kind of sit there for a while and, you know, make make some breakfast, if I'm really having a hard time. But if I can really get going on something, I can hold it, I'll sit there for two hour get get to work, but you know, the, the foundational aspects of, of the coffee and sitting there and, you know, and sort of early morning stoned those things I find, it's helpful to have a routine, you know, sort of a, I guess, a ritual for lack of a better term.

Thomas Mooney 1:03:16

Yeah, the, for me, it's always the cup of coffee, it's always the just kind of, you know, getting a couple things set on my desk, having like a notepad and then also having like, my word DACA, or whatever the case, because I always feel and this is this goes back to the whole, like, never erase and kind of stuff or like keeping the scraps because if I erase it, I'll, for some reason, like, there'll be something in me going Oh, shit, I needed to I can't remember exactly how that was supposed to be said or how I wanted to say that, you know, having the scrap paper there is always necessary. But for me, at least. Yeah, yeah, I can totally agree with that. Yeah, well, it's been really, really great talking to you today. I really love this new record. And hopefully, you'll get down here to Texas sometime and be able to catch a show.

John R. Miller 1:04:16

Yeah, yeah. It's been great talking to you as well. And, you know, hopefully it will be getting down there sooner than later once we can kind of get wheels back on the road. Thanks for thanks for talking to me.

Thomas Mooney 1:04:29

Yeah, for sure, man. All right, that is it for 173 Thanks for listening. Be sure to mark those calendars for July 16. That's when depreciated the new record by john R. Miller is officially out. Stop on over and visit our presenting partners desert door wild gallery and the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas, hit up the new slang merch store and be sure to hit that subscribe button as well. We have a quick turnaround on episode 174 It's with Texas songwriters summer Dean and we'll be out by this Friday.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai