126: Ashley Campbell
On Episode 126, I'm joined by singer-songwriter Ashley Campbell. This Friday (Oct 09), she's releasing Something Lovely, the gorgeous and dreamy follow-up to her 2018 full-length debut, The Lonely One. Campbell's charming brand of lyricism and storytelling really takes the lead on the 11-track Something Lovely. The intimate ballads "Good to Let Go" and "Forever's Not That Long" find her navigating recent breakups and eventual breakthroughs while the hole in the wall bar vignettes "Something Lovely" and "Walk On By" are witty, clever, and fun. Still, it's "Remembering," the beautiful ode that chronicles her relationship with her late father, country legend Glen Campbell, that's the hearthstone and north star of the album.
During this episode, we talk about finding the right sonic palette for Something Lovely, writing the album, how improv, comedy, and drama have helped her be a better songwriter and storyteller, writing on the banjo, the charming and clever wit within her songs, and what she's been doing during this turbulent year.
This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.
Interview Transcript
Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.
Thomas Mooney 0:01
Welcome back to this line. This is Thomas Mooney, your host, we're taking this week off, being joined by singer songwriter Ashley Campbell. She has a new record coming out called something lovely this Friday, that's October 9, I just really love the space that they created for this record. The Sonic textures. It's really light and airy sonically, and they really work within what I would kind of consider like these pastel colors. It's clean and crisp. And there's like this lullaby kind of quality to it. At times, they they kind of venture into something a little bit more wistful or melancholy, perhaps just like a touch of restlessness and some songs. A giant part of that is Ashley's vocals. She's such a delicate and graceful, blissful vocalist. And like they just kind of perfectly float above those lush, dreamy qualities of the of the songs. I don't say this lightly. Like, just the record in general is just a really beautiful sounding album. And as far as Ashley's lyrics go, they're just like, right in stride with, with what I'm talking about. sonically? I really love how she's able to show off some aspects of her personality with these lyrics, like the title attract something lovely, it's so fun and charming, and she's flirty and funny in it. But then a song like walk on by, it's almost like the flip side of the song, or the flip side of that coin, rather, She's so funny and charming in it. But it's just a different, funny, charming, where you can feel every link of something lovely. You feel every iro on walk on by. And I just really love the juxtaposition of those two songs. And of course, probably what I consider the heartbeat of the album is remembering a song that actually wrote for her late father, the legendary Glen Campbell, you know, like, I could probably just ramble on for forever about how great this song is and how important it is. But if you haven't checked it out, like just go and check it out yourself, because that's just really you'll just be better served that way. But more than anything, I guess what I would say is, the song is more reassuring than anything else. It's just nice that she has led us into this intimate moment and this intimate relationship between a father and daughter, and you're able to apply those feelings into your own life and your own relationships. Today's presenting sponsor is desert door, Texas SoTL. If you know anything about me, it's probably that I'm from the heart of West Texas and absolutely love everything about West Texas. And that's really why I love desert door so much. You may be asking yourself what exactly Soto is. Well, it's a premium spirit that similar to a tequila or a Moscow, but for my money, it's a little bit more refined and smooth. There's a sweetness and faint hints of vanilla and citrus and it's also as versatile as your garden variety vodka. At its core desert door is authentically West Texas, they go out and harvest Soto plants from the wild and bring them back to their distillery over in driftwood, Texas. So next time you're at your local liquor store, get a bottle of desert door. For more info, check this episode show notes are before we get started. If you're interested in joining the new slang, Patreon, it's a great time to do so. It's of course a great way to support the podcast and a way to get some extra added perks along the way, postcards, merge extra interviews, ad free episodes and so on. If you're interested, there's a link in the show notes. And of course also in the show notes are links to the new slang merch store, Tom loonies cup of coffee playlist, and all the social media stuff so you can stay connected on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and so on. If this is your first time listening to new slang, be sure to hit that subscribe button as well. Alright, let's go ahead and get on to the interview. Here is Ashley Campbell.
Obviously, record and I guess I've been sorting out a lot of these interviews with how that's been affected by the the pandemic and whatnot. For you was there like any logistical kind of problems or questions or concerns when, when lining this album up for a release day and whatnot?
Ashley Campbell 4:35
Well, luckily, we were we actually recorded the album in at the end of 2018. So it's just taken a while to like, get all the ducks in a row to release it. And I've changed, you know, changed around my team a little bit behind the scenes and, and then, you know, this year we were like, Alright, we're releasing the album, we're ready. Then the pandemic can't hit. So we kept pushing it back because Everything was so uncertain, you know how like, at the beginning of the quarantine with the capital T, it kept going like, okay, it's just gonna be a couple weeks, Okay, you know what, you know, two more weeks will be open and back to normal. Alright, maybe maybe another month by fall, Let's reschedule everything for fall perfect. And now it's just like, it hasn't necessarily gotten much better. And so we just kind of, you know, you can't not put music out, especially in a time when people need new shit. They need entertainment, they need music for their lives, like, goodness, I was, like, for example, I was, you know, let's see, when was this? Like? When did Rayleigh montagnes recent album just come out was a Jude or something. Yeah, and it May or June, but, you know, I was feeling particularly low, and then that album came out and, and it lifted my spirits so much. So, you know, that definitely solidified that it's so important to just keep reaching out to people with your music and whether you can tour or not, it's not an ideal situation. But, you know, it's ideal to release the music into the world.
Thomas Mooney 6:16
Yeah, you know, like that, at the very beginning. You're right. Like, it felt like everyone was just kind of in this Limbo area of going, Okay, well, they're telling us, maybe it's a month, maybe it's by the end of summer, by by fall. And so like you you naturally understand, like people going okay, well, I had a spring date. So let's just push it to summer. And, well, I had a summer date, well, let's just push it to fall or whatever that is. And then of course, at some point, it was just like, yeah, that's not really gonna, that's not gonna really happen. So um, yeah, it's such a, I think what more so than anything else you can I can empathize with the the frustration of like, just really no one having the answers or telling you what to do. Or having like, there's, there's no real plan for this beforehand to look Yeah,
Ashley Campbell 7:09
like even thinking about, oh, what do you want to you know, what's next year gonna look like, I have no clue, you know, that we might have live shows back, but they're gonna look completely different. You know, it might not be because of distancing regulations and stuff like that, like artists might not play really large shows, or even relatively large shows, might not be able to make the kind of money that they need to tour. And that's going to be a huge problem, you know, because the whole idea behind it is get as many people in the venue as possible. And now it's like, Don't, right. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, I'm just gonna say there's just so many factors. It's like, yes, we probably will get to play some live shows. But they, you know, will it be sustainable as far as making a living? We don't know.
Thomas Mooney 8:02
Yeah, what I kind of relate that to is, you know, early on, I guess, the liver opening back restaurants and being like, okay, 25% capacity, or 50%, or whatever. And you, I guess I was like, just totally naive to the restaurant industry. But it seemed like where there's no way that 25% is even feasible, like to keep open, that a lot of these restaurants, they were surviving on being at full capacity all the time. And so like, being open at 25% is just, it doesn't really, like it didn't really matter. Like, there was no point to it, in a way because it was just, at some point, you're it's costing more to stay open for 25 than it is to just be closed.
Ashley Campbell 8:50
Yeah, like, gosh, it kind of reminds me of the not to get too political, but like, the issues with the unprecedented unemployment, you know, numbers, like myself included, like, and then they think, Oh, yeah, well, you know, the 600 a week was great, but now it's what what, where have they even started? Is it talking about 300 a week now or something?
Thomas Mooney 9:15
Yeah, like it's, it's just been. It feels like there's, like, the people in charge are like, out of touch with, with the Yeah.
Ashley Campbell 9:25
It's like saying, Yeah, you can't go back to work at our restaurants, you can't open and actually make enough money to be able to pay your rent, but you can open, you know, we'll give you a little bit but not enough to survive. And that's what I feel like it's gonna be for maybe maybe live concerts at some point, because the poor venues, what are they going to do? You know, like it's gonna have to be and also like, if if restaurants are opening, I guess, you know, I had a friend in Australia that played a show recently. And it was like table seating. In a club. So in order to keep people from standing too close to each other, it's like spaced out tables and whatnot. It's just, it's interesting to think about what, what the future of live events holds for us.
Thomas Mooney 10:14
Yeah, I don't know, if there's, I don't know if what we, what's been done yet is, is the right answer. And I don't know if it's gonna be like, someone's gonna have this kind of, you know, revolutionary idea that kind of changes things that makes it feasible and makes it actually great or not. I mean, obviously, anytime there's like a stressful situation. And in this world, that's usually the time where innovation happens. So we'll see, I guess, but, but also, going back to your point on the, you know, people need music during this time, because they aren't going out and they're stuck at home, or they're just one of the things I was talking about with somebody else was maybe like, perhaps one of the silver linings is that by the time you you're able to play shows, again, your crowd is going to know those songs on these new because so often, it's kind of like that cliche of you put a record out and you say, or you have a record, come in, and you go, I got a new one for y'all. And then everyone kind of goes to the bar or something like, yeah, maybe that's gonna be maybe one of those little silver linings. And
Ashley Campbell 11:27
yeah, definitely, I'm all about finding the silver linings, especially this year, but yeah, I mean, people have no choice but to sit and listen to it, I guess.
Thomas Mooney 11:36
Yeah. Well, you you mentioned you guys, recorded back in 2018. This album, I think, like that's something else too, is that for so many artists, you realize like, there you guys can just record this last week, and I'm putting it out now. You guys are sitting on these songs a lot longer than anyone else's? What, uh, I guess like, How do you stay excited about this project? whenever some you know what I mean? Because like, I think it's natural for for you guys as creatives to kind of be already moving on being excited about new songs and plans and whatnot.
Ashley Campbell 12:18
Yeah, like, I can't even tell you how many times I've listened to mixes and masters and just listened for fun and things like that. I think what, what helps me stay excited is that it's a product that I'm really proud of, of course, you know, the more time you have to sit with it, the more time you have to think about oh, I could have done this differently. Or I wish I would have done this, but you kind of have to like once it gets locked in you have to say like, Alright, you know, like, this is it. And I'm gonna just take everything I love about it. It's hard to it's hard for an artist to say this is finished. You know, wait, one more thing. One more thing, right. But I'm this particular album I'm just super proud of and also it helps that all my amazingly talented musician friends played on it. And so when I listen to this album, for pleasure, it's not me, like, getting off on myself. It's, it's me being so excited and in awe of my talented friends that play it, you know, like, I'm like, oh, here comes the steel solo or that piano? You know, it's so good. Or Oh, Vince Gill. Oh my god, you know, right. So I just I'm so proud of the product that I made and proud that I have such amazing friends that played on it. That wanted to work with me.
Thomas Mooney 13:37
Yeah, you know, I've really liked the the sonic palette on this album, I love like just kind of that that blend of like that wistfulness and some melancholy. And there's like the airy Christmas crisp ness to it as well that I just really like. I guess, like, I read that you guys recorded this pretty quickly in a pretty short period of time. What, uh, what what kind of things added to that where you just had like, that little pocket of time to record the album? What kind of like, I guess added bonuses were there for when he didn't just have forever to to record an album when it was just these like 10 days or whatever. Was there any what kind of like, I guess, like that pressure to create that diamond? What, uh, what added bonuses Do you feel you get from recording in a short period of time like that?
Ashley Campbell 14:33
Um, well, I think the first thing that that adds is a deadline to make choices. You know, you have to make choices and stick with them. Because you had you don't have time to think about it and that can be a double edged sword, but for the most part, it's an extremely powerful driving factor to work and squeeze out the creative juices. And, gosh, it was a whirlwind and you start getting delirious and then maybe you have crazy ideas that you wouldn't have had if you had more time.
Thomas Mooney 15:10
Yeah, like the I think there is like that little bit of that dreaminess, to this, to the, to the record. Was that always kind of like, You're what you when you first were writing the songs that you envisioned for this album, or was that more developed? Once you got into the studio as far as the sound?
Ashley Campbell 15:29
I think it was, you know, it was developed for sure. Like, I wanted to, I wanted to make an album that I would like to listen to every day, and I'm mostly I like chill stuff. I like stuff that you can put on and cook dinner and really enjoy the vibe that it creates. And so I wanted it to have like a dreamy, relaxing feel, even though not all the subject matter is like happy go lucky, Sweet dreams kind of stuff. But the feel is and, and I love that about it too, that, you know, a sad song doesn't have to sound sad.
Thomas Mooney 16:07
Right? I do like that as well. Like that. It's that happens so much in country music as far as like that juxtaposition of, you know, sad subject. And then like just really nice pop sensibilities to the song that feel nice and light and airy. And, and fun. What, uh, I guess like, what, when did you mentioned Vince Gill a minute ago? And he's obviously on, on if I wasn't? At what point? Did he get involved? What How did that happen?
Ashley Campbell 16:43
So I, you know, when we set out to record the song, I started talking with my producer Chi. And, and I, you know, I was like, gosh, I'd love to have a guest on the album. You know, obviously, not only for some more visibility from a business standpoint, but just from a. I mean, gosh, it's I love collaboration so much. And I kind of racked my brain Like, who do I have in common? Who do I who can I get in contact with that might be open to it. And my dad was was buddies with Vince and really respected him. And my godfather, Carl Jackson has worked with him a lot. And they're buddies. And so I just asked Carl to reach out and see if he would be interested. And he said, Yes, right away. And I was like, well, there it is. That's all I need.
Thomas Mooney 17:31
Yeah, like and I think like he obviously like he has that crispness to his voice and I just when you hear Vince Gill sing, you just automatically know who it is. I just, there's so many great qualities. I think this episode is impart brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas, while blue light is still closed due to the pandemic, there is a way to help a support blue light, and B get a sense of that normalcy by visiting blue light, loving, calm, clicking on the merge tab, and getting some koozies a vast array of T shirts and caps, and yes, even a blue light flag. While it is such a bummer that live music is still on hold right now. I'm telling you, by getting some blue light live merge, we're gonna feel better, it just feels better wearing a T shirt and ballcap and helping support your favorite four. Again, that's blue light lubbock.com click on the merge tab, get some merge. All right, back to the episode. Obviously, like there's, you have all these like strings, and you mentioned the pedal steel and obviously you're playing banjo on it like and everything. What what what do you feel like what point you hear those in a song that you know, like, Oh, I want that on here.
Ashley Campbell 19:03
It just depends. I do have a view, my brain is more music focused then like then lyrics. So I tend to I tend to like produce the song in my head sometimes as I write it. So I generally have an idea of what instruments I want on a song. But sometimes, you know, I might say gosh, I really love this particular instrument. I want to I want to squeeze it into one of my existing songs. But I had never thought to put that on like for my next album for example. I was listening to have you heard the the song called moonlight feels right by the band Starbuck?
Thomas Mooney 19:39
I guess not. No, I'm gonna have to write that down.
Ashley Campbell 19:42
It's it's a little obscure, but it was from the 70s I think and there's this insane, ridiculous xylophone solo on it. Like it's almost funny. It's so ridiculous. And I was like, Oh gosh, it would be so much fun to fit a stupid ridiculous by a xylophone solo on my next record. So like I'm already, like, writing down a list of like, what can I? What ideas that are just already here? Can I squeeze into whatever I might write in the future?
Thomas Mooney 20:16
Yeah, yeah, I always wonder about that. Because, you know, so many when you start out on a song, it's like there's nothing there, right? And it's just like these abstract ideas that you're trying to put together and they can go in a million different directions. And I always wonder, like about how, if you do hear those, those sounds that make the song a little bit more textured, a little bit more vibrant? And, and, obviously, with you being someone who can play banjo, guitar, various instruments, I was like, do you do you ever? Like, do you have to start a song on a specific instrument and let it kind of, Oh, well, maybe this doesn't work? Maybe I need to go here. What for you? What is it that usually do you typically start on a, on a specific instrument for a song or is it just kind of varied,
Ashley Campbell 21:11
it's very different every time you know, but what's cool about being able to switch to different instruments, I think, is if I like start a song on one instrument, and I get kind of stuck, I will go and start trying to write the same song on a different instrument. Or, or if I'm like, it starts out as a fast song, I'll be like, Alright, I'm really stuck here. So I turned it into a ballot and see if that gives me any new ideas. And whether I go back to it being a fast song or a ballad, just depends on what that change inspires, but sometimes if you just like, change it up, slow it down, speed it up, you know, make it a regular reggae beat while you're writing it, and then switch it back to country, just anything to kind of inspire the mood, the feel of a song definitely inspires the lyrics.
Thomas Mooney 22:04
You know, like, I think it's, it's one of those things that you'll, you'll every once in a while, you'll see on social media of someone painting something and then they flip the the painting upside down, and then you realize what they've painted. And I think like an art a lot of that has to do with like, if you're looking at a subject, you're focusing more on the shapes and like the the lines and so like it helps you not warp the image. I kind of feel like that's maybe something with that related to, to the songwriting and the creative process. As far as like, you know, whoa, okay, we've gotten this gone down as far as we can this way. Maybe let's switch instruments and see if it works out better. Or like you said, like the going slower or faster or whatever.
Ashley Campbell 22:54
Yeah, I mean, any any change like you might see a door that's open a little bit more than the wall that you just hit you know, for the last hour. So if you change any any little thing up even go to go to a different room, I don't know. Yeah. Many many great ideas happen on the bathroom break because he got up and walked out of the room, you know?
Thomas Mooney 23:18
Yeah, well, I was gonna actually ask that is like, what do you typically have to do you typically have that break in there between when you switch up or is it just like, you know, set one down pick the other one up? Or is it necessary to give you give yourself that that little bit of pause?
Ashley Campbell 23:37
Um, it's just depends on you know, how the spirit moves you. I I personally, I like letting a song marinate You know, it usually takes me a couple different sit down sessions to finish a song and sometimes you never end up finishing it or sometimes you finish it months later years later, but it was the right time to finish it whenever you do finish it.
Thomas Mooney 24:03
Yeah, what's like what's been like your the longest right? Like something that you just kind of maybe not necessarily forgot about but you was always back there and you're like, oh, now now I've I don't want to say fix but you now it's it's more done than before.
Ashley Campbell 24:23
Well, I'm working on one right now that's still not finished but I've had the idea for a couple of years now and it's the it's the latest one to get on the on the black to finish but yeah, it just depends on I can't nothing like super long comes to mind.
Thomas Mooney 24:43
was uh do you do typically like if there was like the I know they all come different and everything but if you had to have like the the right setting for for yourself for a song do you typically like mornings or late nights or you like the to be left alone what's kind of like your your setting Do you like to have the pen and paper out or a computer or what what's kind of like your if you have all like the the right settings for for writing a song The the creative part
Ashley Campbell 25:15
of it kind of varies as well like sometimes I'm in a computer mood because it's just a faster editing process. Or sometimes I like to be real. I like to romanticize it and go analog with a pad of paper and crossing out lines and things like that. But I think in general, I am a computer person, or I'll get my iPad and use the notepad. Just because I like to, you know, when I edit the song, I like to see a clean version of it. And that's it's hard to do on pen and paper, but just depends.
Thomas Mooney 25:48
Yeah, like all the, the the chicken scratch and like the Yeah, for me, like, not, not that I'm a songwriter, but the longer I'm writing, the worse the handwriting gets. So I can imagine that being a part of it, too.
Ashley Campbell 26:03
Yeah, definitely. Um,
Thomas Mooney 26:06
now, the, this record, I think, like there's a lot of stuff on here that, that, that I feel like, I've chuckled at or like, you know, I kind of see like this, like, tongue in cheek nisour like this in some of the lyrics, and the first one, of course, was just kind of like that, that first single from from something or the title track something lovely, where you're talking to her, so and so and such and such. I feel like that adds so much character to that song. And I think just adding that part specifically makes that song where I think we can all relate to that. But like that part in particular made it makes it a little bit more special. Like, what Where did that come from?
Ashley Campbell 26:53
That was actually a joke. I was I was, I was writing with my friend, Brandon, Brandon, Chris. And we were in his tiny bedrooms in his Brooklyn apartment that he shared with like three other guys. So we had to write in the bedroom. And the bedroom was big enough for his bed, basically. And we had the window open to the fire escape. And we were just like, you know, I don't know what to write. And I played a D chord. And I was I was like, Alright, let's be in a bar. I was trying to set the scene and let's be in a bar. I don't know what to say, you know, and I said, Hey, nice to meet you. My name is Sachin shots. You look like so. And so I used to know. And I was like, yeah, that's funny. That's not gonna be the lyric. Yeah, it was a joke lyric. And I just wrote it down as a filler. And then I was like, You know what? I really like that. Actually. It's very Roger Miller.
Thomas Mooney 27:45
Yeah, like, that's what, that's what I thought too, as far as like, it had that roger miller quality to it, that Dolly Parton kind of thing. And yeah, like, I was wondering if it was initially something that was kind of more like a filler to get on to the next thing. And then you just like, Oh, this is actually really good.
Ashley Campbell 28:04
Yeah, cuz sometimes when I'm writing and I find myself a little stuck, I just like, say, the first thing that comes to my mind are like, Don't take it too seriously. Like, you know, sometimes you get really locked into Alright, this this lyric has to be really good. I got to really think about this lyric. But sometimes I'm like, I just need to move on to the next verse. So I write, like, the first thing that comes to my head. And that's what that was.
Thomas Mooney 28:29
Yeah, like, I've been around some some, I guess, like watching people co writing some friends and stuff. And I think that like, the most surprising part for the average person is probably that, that you often do use fillers or like, let's, let's just try and let's use this right here. And if we can beat it later, then we can beat that later. And,
Ashley Campbell 28:53
or like a lack of self editing. I think that's when some of my favorite lines come out is when I'm not, you know, editing myself and saying, Oh, that's not a good line, or that's a great when you're just like, oh, that's kind of funny.
Thomas Mooney 29:07
Yeah, like giving yourself the allowance to say something that may be like dumb or something. I think that's like an important part of any kind of creative writing.
Ashley Campbell 29:17
Yeah. Like the first line in the title tracks something lovely, is put your drink down and look my way. Hey, and when we were trying to, you know, decide what the first line would be, I was like, Alright, I sit down at a bar, I see this guy that I'm really attracted to. What's my, what's my intro line? And I just, you know, I just like trying out lines and I'd like put your drink down and look at me, like, very direct. seemed kind of funny. So
Thomas Mooney 29:49
yeah, like, I think like there's that. It's, it's a very charming kind of setup, right like, and what I love so much about it too, though is and I don't This is not necessarily intentional on your part, but it really does. Like, feel like the opposite of the song. walk on by, like is like, very much like same to people or say like the same woman, two different nights, you know, like same bars. Yeah. And was that was that? Was that kind of intentional? Did you were you thinking about the other song after writing the other one or anything like that? Or
Ashley Campbell 30:30
you know, that's funny that you that you make that connection, but I had I had never even thought about that. But it is totally the same woman. It's like walk on buys after a relationship and something lovely is she's finally ready to to get back out there.
Thomas Mooney 30:49
Yeah, like in both of those have. I feel like that, like that line knows. That sense of humor is in both, like the gist. I think like I'm walking by you kind of say like, what is it that I wrote it down somewhere? What did you say? Oh, like a bat, like, can't you just act like I'm not here? Like, just straight through me, please?
Ashley Campbell 31:16
Well, it's interesting now that you mentioned it, those those two characters from the songs like are both versions of me, but they definitely seem like the same person. Because in both of them, she's kind of pessimistic. You know. She's, she's, she's an extreme optimist, but also very pessimistic. Like, she's like, I'm just gonna go for talk to this guy and see if he's into it. And turns out he's just as fucked up as she is. And, and she's just like, Okay, oh, well, at least I tried, you know. And then and walk on by she's, she just like, I don't even care. I'm just, I wanted to drink in a bar. I don't want to drink at home. What does it matter?
Thomas Mooney 32:04
Yeah, I think that's also not to necessarily go down this road too far. But that's something that I think is very specific to women, like, Guys have like the, you're just able to go to a bar and not feel like you're gonna get picked up on by like, everyone there. You know what I mean? And I feel like that's an aspect of that, of that song walk on by.
Ashley Campbell 32:30
Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, not everyone goes to a bar for for a date, you know, it right? It would be actually interesting to explore all the different reasons people go to bars, you know. And in, in that case, in that song, she's just, she didn't want to be alone with herself, but she wanted to be left alone, you know,
Thomas Mooney 32:52
right. Like, that's like, it's kind of like the Yeah, like the, I don't want to be by myself, but like, just also just leave me alone.
Ashley Campbell 33:01
Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 33:02
it's a again, I really like those like, and I don't know, like, I just kind of like the I saw the the connection, and maybe I forced the connection. But I think like, there's something there. So um, yeah, I don't know, it feels like you as a writer, a lot of those kind of songs. Like, you're really great at having those observational kind of wallflower observations. And I guess like for you, like, where do those you typically people watch? And do you typically kind of like, you know, daydream about those kinds of people and write those little things down? Is that how a lot of songs start for you?
Ashley Campbell 33:43
Yeah, definitely. I like I like to imagine myself in scenarios I love people watching. Yeah, it's almost as if I'm writing a short scene in a in a movie, you know, have high intense emotion but I really love storytelling. So that's probably why my a lot of my songs are very dialogue driven.
Thomas Mooney 34:10
Yeah, well, you know, a lot of people I don't know if they a lot of times in songs to to drive a story they they're just they're talking about action. But I think like dialogue can make a song a little bit more personable, and a little bit more. You're able to like empathize with those people more because you're hearing what they're saying versus what they're doing.
Ashley Campbell 34:31
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, sorry. That's my clock going off.
Thomas Mooney 34:37
I don't hear as actually so it's okay. Okay, I'll cut that this little part of me right down.
Yeah, like also like you. You have like, the one I'm kind of lost here. Hold on one sec.
Ashley Campbell 34:58
dialogue.
Thomas Mooney 34:59
Yeah. But also like, I want to go back to like the, I guess I read that, you know, you initially kind of wanted to you wanted to be a comedian and you know what? What are those kind of like qualities? Do you find that have you end up like putting into your your songs and like, maybe like stage banter and whatnot like that?
Ashley Campbell 35:21
Um, well, I never I never did stand up comedy. A lot of people assume that when they say comedian, but I was I was an improvisational actor. And so I did comedy through made up scenes and stuff. And, like, the ability to get on stage with no idea what you're doing is, like, both terrifying and exhilarating. And I feel like it's helped me a lot in, in songwriting, because of course, you're creating stories on the spot. But also, you know, when I'm on stage, and, you know, things don't always go exactly how you want them, you know, their sound problems or whatever it might be, like, one time I, I went up to play at an event and right as I started my first chord, the fire alarm went off. So, you know, it doesn't always go the way you planned, but as long as you know how to fly by the seat of your pants, it's, it's, it's very freeing to not worry about that, like thing, always assume something will go wrong, and that you will handle it beautifully, you know,
Thomas Mooney 36:27
right? Yeah. Um, and obviously, I've never I've never done improv or anything like that. But like, I'm assuming that so much of that is, is being able to read your the people that are up there with you? And does How much does that help when you're when you're co writing with something or just collaborating in general?
Ashley Campbell 36:47
Um, it's, it's very helpful, because when you're on stage doing doing an improv show, it's all about the other person, you're not just standing up there making stuff up and shouting it out at them. You know, you say one thing, they respond, you respond to what they said, that's how you write a scene, you know? So that's, that's one reason I really love co writing. It's called Yes. And improv. You say yes. And and then you add something as opposed to Yes. But you know, which kind of sets up a wall. So you keep the story going by positively agreeing, you know, so when when you get a good chemistry with a co writer like that, it's it's totally priceless. And those are the people you, you hang on to, and you keep writing with over and over again.
Thomas Mooney 37:34
Yeah, like, I that's what I kind of, and I think it has to go back to that whole, like allowing yourself to, to say something that maybe you wouldn't like, you don't want to put those walls up. You don't want to be timid, where you're like, Oh, that's, I guess, like the editing in the moment is, is can be destructive to the creative process.
Ashley Campbell 38:00
Yeah, exactly.
Thomas Mooney 38:02
Now, you mentioned like you do like to edit? Like, do you typically set on something for a while and then go back? Or is it what what's what's when it comes to editing what is like your kind of process to, to the, to at all.
Ashley Campbell 38:18
It just depends, what I like to do is, you know, once we get kind of the bones of the song, I'll record it on my phone, and I'll kind of listen to it a lot. I'll listen to it while I'm driving. I'll listen to it while I'm in the shower. And just once you have the the structure of the song, or like you have the basic lyrics out, you listen to it more and more, your brain starts telling me what you wish was different, or what you don't like, you're like, oh, that doesn't work, you know? And so then you can start asking yourself the questions. Well, what do I want here? What does this person need to say? What does how does this song need to make me feel? You know?
Thomas Mooney 39:01
Yeah, I think like, again, like one of those things that you you slowly start learning about watching and talking with people about songwriting is that it's not just the the romanticized version that you have in your head of songwriting of like, you know, you sat down and in you just wrote that song in 15 minutes and it was all easy. I think so much of the songwriting is that before you pick up the guitar and the after you pick it up, after you've written it down, and it feels like so much more of like the songwriting is is is those moments where you're inside your own head, just thinking about whatever that song is and what you want out of it.
Ashley Campbell 39:42
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Thomas Mooney 39:46
For you like WHAT DO YOU ARE YOU you said, He's like, you listen to him. Like after you on in these like these notes? Do you typically try to like, I guess, like, make notes, then in there like, do you Or do they usually go back to a different time for when you go back and sit down or something? Where are you usually just kind of like, maybe adding notes to what you want to change in the moment of listening?
Ashley Campbell 40:14
Um, it just, it all depends on I don't think I ever do it one way, you know, it's always different. Any which way you can?
Thomas Mooney 40:27
Yeah, and, you know, obviously like you again like, you go back to you play Banjo and you have like that instrumental in the middle of the record. What I always what I kind of find a little funny is that, usually whenever I get sent a record, I'll put it on and I'm just kind of doing other things. The first few times I listened, but that the title of the song just kind of grabbed grabbed me. And so like, I was like listening for moustache man to be mentioned, or something like that. Like, it just never kind of came. And then it was like, Oh, you know what, I bet it's that instrumental? What, uh, how I guess like, for you as since banjo is such a Usually, it's so connected to bluegrass and, and more Instrumental Work is usually a part of that. How important was it for you to like, have something like that as a, as a part of this record?
Ashley Campbell 41:23
It's very important to me because I've, I've always been very proud of the fact that I, I can competently play an instrument because I don't know. I just, I'm very proud of it. Because I think it's probably because my dad was such an immense instrumentalist that I, you know, I take pride in that in myself, even though I would not compare myself to anywhere near as great as he was. But um, I did, I kind of made a vow to myself when I started making records that every album would have a banjo instrumental on it.
Thomas Mooney 42:01
Yeah, it's a I think, like, what I love so much about little instrumentals or bookings or things like that is like it's it's a nice, especially for like something like this where it's right there in the middle. It's like that flip with a record kind of moment. Because obviously,
Ashley Campbell 42:20
yeah, it's a nice little break in the in the verbiage. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 42:25
like, I think like for listeners, often. What I always I guess do is, it gives me a moment to think about like the songs previously before a little bit more, while not necessarily just being in dead air.
Ashley Campbell 42:40
Yeah, and it's almost as if it's, it's in the same key as the song that comes right after it. It's in D. And so digging deep and so I like that we placed those next to each other as well because it kind of keeps that vibe going. And digging deep is probably one of the most like rootsy weird songs so it kind of matches the route students at the banjo.
Thomas Mooney 43:03
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Ashley Campbell 44:33
you definitely have to think about the sides. Because vinyl is super important to me. I love buying vinyl when I go see an artists that I love. That's my favorite way to support an artist through merges buying their vinyl and it's I feel like it's a better collector's item than a CD or a T shirt or something which are great too but I always buy the vinyl if I love the artist. And you know it does matter like the sides better. You can't put a vinyl on shuffle so it has to be intense. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 45:03
just give it time. You know, someone's gonna do that.
Ashley Campbell 45:06
I hope not.
Thomas Mooney 45:08
I was like, I love like, just with vinyl, there's so much more intentions, like you just have to be as a listener as as you making the album. Because like, like you said, like, you just can't really go back. It's hard you can but it's so difficult to want to listen to this song again. So let me You never get it right. You know what I mean? It's never perfect. So I think it just makes people listen to albums. Versus
Ashley Campbell 45:35
I. Yeah, like so many you would be surprised so many people in the Nashville music industry have told me like, oh, the album is dead, just release singles. And I was extremely offended because I'm such a defender of the belief in a full album and intentional piece of art. You know, I think like thing, don't worry about making an album just put out songs. Just put out singles or like EP is, is like telling Da Vinci on only paint one of the dudes in the picture at it, you know, just paint one dude, that's enough. Yeah, you don't need to paint the whole Sistine Chapel.
Thomas Mooney 46:17
Yeah. Or crayons or in, you know, not like oil painter. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And obviously, like, also you like you're, like what song you're telling us a specific story or a specific, something, write that little narrative. And often, like, that's part of a bigger theme, a bigger piece of art. And I just like, you know, for forever, like the I think it's also the standard. And if you're telling me a lot of new artists, especially, just do singles focus on singles, or focus on ups, like, all their heroes, were making albums, were making, like full on full length records. And I just think like, that's just, I don't know, like, you're just, it's a detriment to the process as a whole. And, and you're just kind of stunting the growth of maybe some really great songwriters.
Ashley Campbell 47:12
Yeah, like, I think, you know, creating a full album is, is telling an entire story and coming full circle, whether it's through lyrics, or just the vibe, like, I think a cohesive vibe for an album is so nice. And to have not every song be this banging balls to the wall. Single, you know, quote, unquote, single for radio, like, Can you imagine an entire album of quote unquote singles that are meant to be like, smash hit blah, blah, blah? Like, it would be exhausting be like, when do when can we breathe?
Thomas Mooney 47:48
Yeah.
Ashley Campbell 47:49
I've always been a fan of the album cuts, you know, the songs they didn't play on the radio?
Thomas Mooney 47:54
Yeah, well, I think with the, with, if you just have like a bunch of just radio singles, you get that ear fatigue. And it's, it's all the same, like, it just turns to mush. And it's, there's something there's, it's fine. I don't like try and like, just bash radio, it's so much because that's just exhausting. But like, appreciating the the record as a whole like that. Let's just obviously this record, there is that common thread throughout. And that's what I think like, was so cool is that you're able to just, oh, I wanted to make a record like this. Here's this record without like making records, you know, you wouldn't have I don't know, like, you wouldn't just have like, these specific little snapshots for for an artist.
Ashley Campbell 48:44
Yeah, like, a record that's cohesive is like, putting on a mood, it's like you put it on you go, I want to feel like this. It's like putting on a different outfit. You know, you're trying on a different set of clothes, and it makes you feel a certain way. And that's what I love about some of my favorite albums. It's like, when I'm happy, I listen to this album. When I'm feeling introspective, I put this on or when I want to relax, it's, it's just so nice to have a curated piece of art to put on and you can trust that it's gonna make you feel however it makes you feel, you know.
Thomas Mooney 49:18
Yeah. And also, like you mentioned, like the deep cuts of of a record, the songs that are not necessarily that are going to be played on radio, like those songs are important because they often like you're talking about more serious and deep subjects or maybe on the opposite end, like maybe they're just a little bit more light and funny that that wouldn't get played on on radio too. So like, I don't know, it's a for you. Like, I guess like with this record, you know, there's 11 songs on it. You I'm obviously assuming there was a lot more in the bucket as far as like what could have been on it. Can you talk a little bit about like that process of, like focusing in on to make this a record versus just a collection of songs? What What was it for you too? I guess like your your vision that you wanted to, oh, I've got x amount of songs, let's somehow narrow these down to the ones that fit together.
Ashley Campbell 50:23
I mean, yeah, it's definitely a part of the process. Because, like I said, I like an album to be a cohesive, you know, curated thing that that all kind of goes together. I don't like a mishmash a Jekyll and Hyde kind of thing. I don't know. Yeah, there's some songs that didn't make it. There's good songs that I have that might not have been right for that. But maybe on the next record, stuff like that, but it just depends my producer Chi. Chi. Well, it's helped me a lot with that he helped rein me in, I was like, just 15 songs come on just 15 songs. He's like, no. So we got we did it. We actually recorded 13 songs, but we get Lee abandoned one, because we knew right away that it just wasn't working. It's still a good song. But you know, you just kind of have to be able to let your let the song baby go.
Thomas Mooney 51:27
Yeah, well, you know, like, I guess, like, you know, with the, the producer is like that person. All right. And then we've actually back back up right there. I honestly I love when a record is, is cut down, like 210 11 songs, even like some records that are great are just amazing. Get nine songs. And sometimes it's better to just have that leaner record than it is to have like, the 15 or 16 songs or anything like that.
Ashley Campbell 51:55
Yeah, I totally agree.
Thomas Mooney 51:57
Yeah. But, you know, with in relation to that with a producer, you know, I guess like that's the person who has to kind of help you, as you said, like, rein you in? Make sure like, everything's kind of tighter than than imaginable. Because like, it's, I can understand it being such a like, Oh, you know, I'm making a record, I want all of it. I want everything because they're all important.
Ashley Campbell 52:22
Yeah, I mean, it's hard sometimes when you have a song that you know, you want to put on a record, and it just doesn't work with the record that you're making. So you're like, oh, gosh, I'm gonna have to wait, like, two years to record this song. But the good news is, is if it's still good, you'll you'll be just as excited about recording it in two years.
Thomas Mooney 52:43
Obviously, like going back to like this this time period that we're in right now. What has that done? Has that has that helped you be more creative? Has it made you be more intentional writing or anything like that?
Ashley Campbell 52:57
The COVID time? Yeah. It's definitely made me more introspective and experimental, I guess. I'm actually focusing a lot right now and learning how to I'm learning a digital audio workspace. I'm trying to be able to record myself so I can up my writing game and maybe like expand my creative limits by being able to use use a recording as a as a writing device, you know?
Thomas Mooney 53:30
Yeah, I, too, I think that's like for so not for some reason, but the obvious reason like most people just gravitate towards the the guitar or the piano. And I think that can just limit them you're they're limiting themselves to not learn something you don't have to necessarily be a pro at something else. But I guess it you know, it goes back to opening more doors for you.
Ashley Campbell 53:55
Yeah, and it's, I've already you know, I'm still struggling intensely about getting getting this you know, interface under control, because I'm a total newbie at recording, but luckily, my brother, cow, he's a certified engineer, and he's living with me right now. So he's helped very, very helpful with gear and stuff, but it's amazing. The other night I sat down and just put my headphones on and ran my vocal and guitar through like, some nice effects and reverb and it's amazing that just a little reverb will inspire you to write a song because it just sounds so magical you know? Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 54:31
I think like that's there's I guess I read like a while back this probably 1015 years ago. where like, no Gallagher of Oasis with sometimes like he would write things that he knew his brother Liam would sing really well. Like, just like the long vowel sounds and stuff like that. And I like the whole reverb thing right there. I feel like that has to be part of it for for if you add something like that, where you're just like, oh, there's A new world or something like that opened up to maybe like these kind of lines, these words work better for this. So I can see like that maybe being something that's just like an like a new landscape for you.
Ashley Campbell 55:16
Yeah, sources of inspiration comes in all shapes and sizes from all different places. And you know, Sonic inspiration is definitely a really great tool. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 55:27
I think it's, it's been interesting talking with people during this time, because the people who have been most productive have been the ones who I think it's, like, easy to think like, Oh, you guys just have been writing songs every day, like one song a day? Yes, is the best thing for you. But I think like the people who have been most productive have been the ones who have taken up other parts of art or have just been learning new things like this, like, learning new how to like record at home and, or learning how to draw or paint or garden or I think like a lot of people that I've talked with have the learning curve on on doing like live streams, like learning how to set stuff up, that actually will sound good and decent.
Ashley Campbell 56:20
Yeah, I mean, I'm still working on my live stream game. I just bought a a USB mixer yesterday to try and you know, be able to EQ and compress. And at the very bottom for my live streams.
Thomas Mooney 56:32
Yeah, because I think that right, there is such a, you think of it as like, Oh, this is gonna be easy. It's like, you know, set up a camera, plug in, just kind of like you're playing a show, and it's gonna be easy. It's gonna be easy to like, live streamed everyone, that's how hard can it be? And then like, you kind of realize, Oh, you know, what, there's a lot of things I was probably overlooking.
Ashley Campbell 56:53
Yeah, I mean, it's easy to do, it's difficult to do well, it takes a little effort, it's difficult to do well, it just takes effort, which most people don't want to do.
Thomas Mooney 57:02
Yeah, well, how different is also for when you're doing like a live stream, and there is that lack of interaction, right after a song finishes, you know, like the, there's no applause or any commentary or anything like that.
Ashley Campbell 57:19
Well, the, I've been doing shows on stages, and there's a message board that people can write on, but what really sucks is that for me, the the message board is delayed. So, you know, I have to wait maybe like 20 seconds before, what I said that they hear and can respond to. So that's a little frustrating, I wish they could get that a little better. But it's kind of interesting, it's definitely changing, it's definitely gonna change the way I perform live actually, because it feels on on the live streams on the virtual interface. Like you, it's very more relaxed, and it's very more personal. And so I'm kind of learning myself how to be more relaxed and personal. With a fan setting, and even though they're not directly in front of me, I feel like it's gonna help me relax on stage as well and be a little more real and conversational.
Thomas Mooney 58:24
Yeah. Like, it's, I think it's so easy to kind of rest on what you said last night that worked or like the night before, like, you've you've definitely seen shows where like, you get the same stories, you know, like the same little like jokes from the the lead singer. And you know, he tells that joke every night or he you know, whatever the case is, and it's like the same setlist. How is a? Because you've done a few, like, some themed kind of shows, right? How has that helped as far as like, just not playing the same set every night? Because it's, it can be a lot of the same people.
Ashley Campbell 59:05
Yeah, I mean, I, I didn't that I get on stage. It is mostly the same group of people now, which is actually really fun to you know, see people coming back again and again, and making requests and things like that. But yeah, the theme shows are really fun, because it kind of forces me to have to learn some new songs and yeah, it's just fun to switch it up. Keep my chops up. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 59:31
What's been like the the one that you? I guess, like has been the most fun to do.
Ashley Campbell 59:38
Hmm, I really enjoyed the I enjoyed the Beatles one I did a couple weeks ago. That was really fun. Yeah. Or I did like a fingerpicking theme so I did some like Doc Watson style stuff. And that's really fun. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 59:54
what what's the what's the kind of like on your, I guess like your wish list, to do list.
Ashley Campbell 59:59
Maybe Theme shows Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 1:00:02
do you have anything like you just like?
Ashley Campbell 1:00:05
I don't know. I haven't thought about the next one yet. Yeah, just, um, you know, let's see. I like going out on a limb and to different genres, maybe? I don't know. Maybe a back themed show or something.
Thomas Mooney 1:00:22
Oh, Becca. So good. That's the kind of related kind of record is like his sea changes. For this record. Oh, yeah.
Ashley Campbell 1:00:29
Oh,
Thomas Mooney 1:00:30
good. A lot of the i just i like i love that record by back and he's always so different on everything.
Ashley Campbell 1:00:38
Yeah, yeah. He's a, he's a very good intern genre. Artist example.
Thomas Mooney 1:00:46
Yeah, you know, like, he's, this is, I'm gonna go off on a little tangent here about back but I know like, probably five or six years ago, maybe a little bit longer than that. He was doing these like record club things where him and his like, he would just invite a couple friends over and they would record a record that they loved. Just like re record it. Like I know, they did like the Velvet Underground. And Nico, like that record. And they did like I don't I'm blanking on other records, but like, That, to me was like, That was perfect for that's perfect for now. Like, why aren't you guys doing that now? Like, that would be kind of a cool project. Yeah,
Ashley Campbell 1:01:22
I mean, that's such a fun idea.
Thomas Mooney 1:01:25
Yeah, just cuz I know, like he. I remember, like, the one that's popping up is like that Velvet Underground one. And it had like the the guys or at least one of the guys from management in GMT. And they were kind of like just trading off songs. And like, everyone just kind of they would just do them in like two or three takes and I think they just put them out for free. So I don't know that was such a. I don't know why he's not doing this. Yeah, I
Ashley Campbell 1:01:54
mean, he's definitely bring it back.
Thomas Mooney 1:01:56
That'd be awesome. Yeah. So yeah, it's been really great talking to you. Really interesting.
Ashley Campbell 1:02:04
Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited.
Thomas Mooney 1:02:09
Okay, that does it for this one. Huge thanks to Ashley Campbell. Y'all Be sure to check out something lovely out this Friday, stopped by our presenting partners desert door and the blue light live. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't just yet. And yeah, I'll see y'all later this week for another episode of nice like thanks.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai