113: Colter Wall

Episode 113 is with Canadian singer-songwriter Colter Wall. Wall will release his third full-length album, Western Swing & Waltzes and Other Punchy Songs, this coming August 28. The 10-track self-produced effort finds Wall delivering a strong and sturdy ode to Western culture & rural ranch life of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Wall's Western Swing & Waltzes is a rich blend of iconic traditionals, prairie & trail songs from fellow Western songwriters, and a batch of new, fun-loving Wall originals. There's a definite loose and natural tone throughout that feels organic and genuine. Wall and company capture these perfectly imperfect moments and let them breathe and occupy the entire room. At times, Wall is raw and coarse as the feral grazing pastures, mountain overlooks, and the rolling prairies that are often the backdrops of Western Swing & Waltzes. At others, like the gorgeous sway found on the Stan Jones prairie classic "Cowpoke," Wall and company are delicate and precise on the harmonica laden and pedal swept ballad.

During this conversation, Wall and I talk about the recording of the album (at Yellow Dog Studios in Wimberley, TX), the rich, epic lore of Western & rural culture, creating the perfect mood and setting for classic traditional ballads and newly written originals, songwriting contemporaries such as Vincent Neil Emerson and Blake Berglund, and how we can learn from and support our local/regional rural agriculture neighbors during these trying times.

This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:01

Everyone, I'm music journalist Thomas Mooney and you're listening to new slang. We close out the week with Episode 113. With singer songwriter Colter Wall, it was awful nice catching up with Colter a couple of weeks back. And as you're probably aware by now, Colter has a new album coming out next week called Western swing and Waltz's and other punchy songs. It's officially out Friday, August 28. As you'd expect, we talked a lot about the new album, which he recorded down at Yellow Dog studios in Wimberley, Texas. He self produced the 10 track album. And I think we really see a different side of culture with this album. Obviously with imaginary Appalachia, his self titled full length and songs of the plains, there were distinct moods and tones to those songs and albums, especially with those first two. They were so rich with these dark tones, they were bold, and there was a starkness to them. Both sonically and lyrically, a lot more murder ballads, a lot more of that gravelly baritone being a tour de force. And there's still a lot of that on the album Songs of the plains, but you also see Colter starting to drift further west with more cowboy ballads and trail songs, which just feel more naturally light and airy. And this new album sees culture fully embrace those Western tengiz and working cowboy themes. You feel that organic, fun loving nature of Western swing and Waltz's. I hate to describe it as being less serious and both subject and feel. But you can definitely feel culture and company cutting loose on this album, you really pick up on culture sense of humor, both lyrically and then just kind of how he frames a song. On some of the songs they're bookend by conversation and comments. And that's such a simple technique, but it adds to the atmosphere of the album. As I told Coulter, the record feels like you've stepped out of your living room for a minute. And when you return, they're in there setting up and they're already passing a guitar around and trading songs and stories. I've really enjoyed this new one with Coulter and I think you will too. Western swing and Waltz's and other punchy songs is out next week. But if you want a little preview, go check out the two songs culture is already released from the album, The opening Western swing and Walters and the classic Stan Jones ballad cowpoke. Today's presenting sponsor is desert door, Texas SoTL. If you know anything about me, it's probably that I'm from the heart of West Texas and absolutely love everything about West Texas. And that's really why I love desert door so much. You may be asking yourself what exactly SoTL is, well, it's a premium spirit that similar to a tequila or a Moscow, but for my money, it's a little bit more refined and smooth. There's a sweetness and faint hints of vanilla and citrus and it's also as versatile as your garden variety vodka. At its core desert door is authentically West Texas, they go out and harvest Soto plants from the wild and bring them back to their distillery over in driftwood, Texas. So next time you're at your local liquor store, get a bottle of desert door. For more info, check this episode's show notes. If this is your first time listening to new slang, I strongly suggest hitting that subscribe link. If you just did, I'm giving you a virtual High Five right now. New slang is over on iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast, Stitcher, radio, and basically any and everywhere you listen to podcasts. Go check out the new slang merch store. Grab a koozies and stickers, buttons and magnets. Any bit helps author a link into the show notes. And if you're into a playlist, go check out Tom Rooney's cup of coffee and the neon Eon playlist over on Spotify. The neon Eon is for all your nostalgic 90s country needs, which there's going to be more neon Eon related stuff coming your way pretty soon. And then Tom mooneyes cup of coffee is a regularly updated mix of new Americana and country music.

It's also a really great hint at who I have coming up on the podcast. So yeah, go follow those. Alright, that's enough for this intro here is Coulter wall. So yeah, man, you've been kind of holding up on a ranch out here in Texas. All this time.

Colter Wall 4:31

Yeah, I mean, that's not the whole time. I guess not since all this shit hit the fan necessarily.

You know, my last gig I played was in February. And it was the San Antonio rodeo. And I guess yeah, that would have been I don't know. February. I think towards The end of February I can't even remember but that was the last gig that I had. And since then I've mostly been sitting still. But I did venture out to a good friend of mines place, he's got a little ranch outside, just south of Elgon, Texas Can I guess South Central Texas not too far from a too far from Austin. But I got a buddy that's got some property out there, he's actually got a bunch of different properties sort of all around the state, but he's, he lives out there was little camp, that he's got set up to one of his ranches. And then I'll go out there and bug him for you know, a few months at a time of the year and try to help around and drink a lot of beer and stuff. So I figured you know, this is as good a time as any to take advantage of those kinds of relationships and just go holed up in, you know, pretty, pretty easy to social distances. They say when you're near, you know, out in the country, when there's I enjoyed I like I like being able to get away out there. I got a few different buddies like that sort of spread around the States and Canada that I like to go and kind of dislocate around them their place for a while, you know?

Thomas Mooney 6:24

Yeah. When there's when there's more head of cattle than heads of people out there. It's easy to you know, social distance. Yeah.

Colter Wall 6:31

That's the goal. The life's goal. Really? Yeah, no

Thomas Mooney 6:36

kidding. Yeah, like, I've noticed, like, you know, speaking with everyone during this time, it's it's been the people who have found other things to occupy their time they keep busy that have been taking this this space, this pause the best. Obviously, you've been, like you said, you you've been out on these out in the country, you kind of just helping around and all that kind of stuff. What have you done on the artistic side? Has it has this space been beneficial to the writing in any capacity?

Colter Wall 7:16

Well, you know, the way that this is sort of all shook out here was is we were planning on putting out this record, right around now, which, of course, we're still going to do, I think the original plan was maybe to have it out a little earlier, kind of around the spring. But they can push back, obviously, a little bit because of the steel on but mostly just because we kind of had to get our ducks in a row, so to speak. But you know, the way that my brain works, and I can't speak for everyone that write songs, but I can speak for me, and the way that my brain works is I, I have a hard time writing anything, when I know that I've still got a record that is yet to come out, you know, when I got a record sort of on the on the docket, I just, I guess it just takes up a lot of that the song part of my brain for lack of a better term kind of just takes that up. And I spend more time just thinking about the songs that I've already got recorded and waiting to put them out there. And then, you know, after the releases sort of, typically went on, stop, stop worrying about it and start thinking about the next thing. And I've done a little bit of writing during this time, the whole Corona thing I've gotten a little bit done, but not much just because you know, time and time, every time I make a record, it seems to go like this where I kind of just don't I don't do a whole lot of writing until I can until the things finally out there. You know? Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 8:53

it's so strange because like, I think the the entire time as a he asked the the average artist, what do you need more of, to to be a better songwriter, most of them are gonna say, oh, like if I just had more time to write. And then of course, like, right now this happens. And then it's like, well, here's some time to write and then all of a sudden, you feel like this weird, strange pressure, you know what I mean? It's a, it because it just changes everything that you've ever. You've how you've how you've written before, you know? And yeah, I don't know, I found like a lot of people have done other things. From garden to painting to whatever

Colter Wall 9:34

else. Yeah. And I think oftentimes, and I guess it depends what kind of songs you're either or what kind of writing you're doing in general, I think a lot of times find something else to do is, is often the key you know, if you sit down every day and just trying to write I mean, I'm sure I guess there's probably some people out there that can do that and just sit down and force themselves to write a song. But it doesn't really work that way. For me. I like to My best stuff I think usually comes from when I'm in the middle of doing something else and get an idea or get a line or whatever it might be melody, you know, whatever. But I think that's, it's crucial for my whole songwriting process or whatever you want to call it, you know, I've got to find other stuff to do to occupy my brain. And then usually, it's just some kind of, you know, it can be anything, just some kind of manual labor working with, with your hands is kind of what does it for me, and that's sort of where I start to frees up the mind a little bit, I think, you know, if you're just sitting around, it's really easy to overthink. I'm definitely guilty of that sometimes. So I get it, I think, you know, the best thing for anyone to do, right now is, you know, just take advantage of that of this time that we got now, or, you know, a lot of people can't work. This whole thing has been, you know, I think is affected in the, in the least, the people who are least affected by this whole virus is, and the way that it sort of shut down a lot of jobs for people are producers, you know, and people that live in the country, people that whether they're raising crops, or livestock or, or whatever, you know, their lives are pretty much the same, because they're, they're already isolated. And, you know, you can't you can't shut down, I guess you could, you would call them essential jobs, but, you know, they're, they're working for themselves. And,

and the crops and the cows don't know about, you know, the Corona, and they don't know about the global shutdown and all this other stuff, but people got to be fed, you know?

Thomas Mooney 11:49

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, is the cattle and calves don't need to be

Colter Wall 11:56

sorry, you're breaking up? There's a little bit No, I

Thomas Mooney 11:58

was just saying, that's exactly what I was gonna say is like, you know, at the end of the day cows, and you're still eating, be fed and watered, and crops need water? And and?

Colter Wall 12:06

Yeah, yeah, those people are also working. And I don't think a lot of just from what I've seen on the news and social media, those kinds of folks who, you know, are sort of people that I, you know, that I look up to most for the most part, our producers and, and I think a lot of people, from what I've seen on the news and whatnot, don't realize that those people are still working man, they're, they haven't stopped, they work day in and day out. And I hope that for maybe folks that don't know, and that are a little more ignorant to, you know, where food comes from hope that they'll maybe be a little more appreciative, because it certainly seems like over the past few years, there's been a lot of tack on a lot of attacks on agriculture and auto industry is, it's been sort of scrutinized by a lot of people that I don't think really know, what they're talking about. So I hope that this whole thing gives some folks a deeper appreciation for the producers of the world. And the folks that are, you know, raising the crops and, and, and stock and everything, you know,

Thomas Mooney 13:25

yeah, at the beginning of this, I had a conversation with a buddy about, you know, so much of our economy is tied to a global economy. And I was hoping that maybe there would be one of the effects out of this, that we were able to positive out of this was realizing that being local or regional, would be way more beneficial. We need to kind of go back to having more, or you get more of your stuff locally, and hopefully you seek out those people who, who are growing stuff or just making stuff locally. more so because, you know, we all kind of laughed about the the toilet paper kind of thing. But, you know, if you, if you if you bought locally, if they were like every if, if every state for just the comic relief on this is, if every state had like a toilet paper factory, they wouldn't have been nearly as much of a cry for it, you know? So apply that to everything else.

Colter Wall 14:33

You know, it's, it's true. I mean, you're you're right on the money there, man. One thing I've noticed another thing I've noticed during all this is I've seen a lot of people reaching out and trying to try to tell people about, hey, you can buy local beef and I guess this is for more of the cattlemen side of it because, as we've talked about before, that's a big interest of mine and I've got a small I heard myself back home, but you know, you can. There's been a lot of folks that I know that raise Katelyn, and they've been getting on social media and everything else. And hey, are you going to do is call us Texas email, you want to try to beef you know whether you want to side or whether you want a couple ribeyes or something, just reach out and we can get it to you, you don't have to go to the Walmarts. And you don't have to go to the Kroger and all that if you want some local stuff. And I'd like to see more of that sort of thing happening. Because you look at I mean, now more than ever, it's it's the whole the beef, the world of beef in the cattle industry, it's, it's more evident than ever. And it's been this way for a long time that, you know, people can't get enough of it right now. And especially when everyone was really stocking up on stuff. And you know, you'd go to the grocery store, and it would be just completely empty, because people were stocking their fridges and freezers with meat and with food. You know, the demand for it was so high, but the cattle market was still shit. Like it's been for so long. You know, and that's, that has to do with packers and the way that that whole industry works and the monopoly of the packing industry and all that but you know, I just, I guess I hope to see more people realizing that we can get all the stuff that we buy normally from the big grocery store wherever we can get it locally, and, and it's better quality. And we know where it's coming from. And, you know, hopefully, that's just, you know, talking about silver linings with this whole thing. I hope more people kind of get wise to that. But I guess we'll see.

Thomas Mooney 16:51

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that's that's definitely the case. I mean, like, I think when you it just everything's just so much better. If you buy locally, as you said, you you know where it's from, you know what, if you know the person doing something to like that, just that one on one relationship. I wanted to talk to you all one more time about our new partners that desert door and offer up a handful of my favorite ways to drink it. Do you a Mexican Coca Cola, have a couple of swigs than pour yourself some desert door oak aged in tossing a lime wedge or two. Or how about this, pour some desert door into a mug. top off the glass was some ginger beer, squeeze in a lime. Or for all you ranch water drinkers out there, get you a topo Chico, take a couple of polls off, and then pour in some desert door. Toss in a couple of lime wedges. And now you have a mighty tasty and refreshing ranch water. Remember, Soto is as versatile as vodka and has a more refined, smooth and a more complex palate than tequila. It's rich and balanced and and whatever your go to drink is it'll make it that much better. And again, it's inherently West Texas, it tastes like home. For more info on desert door, check our show notes.

Unknown Speaker 18:12

Alright, that's

Thomas Mooney 18:12

it for Thomas Mooney, his cocktail minute. Let's get back to the show. As you mentioned, you know, you like being around, you're interested in all this kind of the agricultural side of, of the Americas. And this record right here that you have coming out all those songs really tie back to being on ranches and being on open frontier and planes. And you, I guess, like, you know, you've recorded this down in Wimberley. And I know you had you've done a couple of things down there. You know that single and you had that one song on that Texas cotton movie? Is that like is that where your your first tie was with a Yellow Dog and Adam?

Colter Wall 18:56

Yeah, that would have been my first time recording there. I had been there. Previous to that. I had been over there just sort of hanging out with some friends of mine and really just loved the space. You know, it's a beautiful spot they got up there. It's right on the Blanco River and middle of the hill country Texas our country's real pretty. And you know, it's not too far from Wembley, Wimberley, but but far enough that you're I mean, you're definitely in the in the sticks a little bit out there. And I kind of just fell in love with that place pretty quick and and and I really like Adam and I really like his, the way that he goes about you know, setting up sessions and and just working out of that studio. And but yeah, the the Texas cotton thing was the first time that I'd recorded there. I believe I've been there once or twice before hanging around. Then it was it's kind of a no brainer. For this one. I really wanted to take the reins on this record and As far as production but also just as far as, you know, the people playing on it. And I kind of just wanted to make it a you know, the kind of thing where you just get the band and bring everybody down there together and sort of just bunk up there for the better part of a week and play and get through the day work till starts to get late and then go down the river and, you know, have a beer and smoke and grill something up and just sort of we really cannot all treat it like a vacation even though we were working hard and getting, you know, lots of different cuts in during the day. But, man, it was blast. I wish I could go back and do it again.

Thomas Mooney 20:43

Yeah, yeah, there's a there's like a looseness to the record. And I mean, I mean that in like a good way. Like there's, you can tell y'all are you guys are having fun. And you guys, there's a couple of songs where you leave them. They're not like, you leave some of the background noise from the front of the song or the back of the song or both. And I think all those things like add to a certain mood.

Colter Wall 21:12

I think so too serious or anything. I appreciate you saying that, you know, some of my favorite albums are I love all the 70s, late 60s 70s stuff that Jerry Jeff and the Gonzo band did. And you can I mean, I've always said there's, there's no better example of audible fun, you know, you can hear those guys having a blast. You can hear it, it's all in there. And it's there's that sort of looseness. And it just sounds like I mean, it's a great band, and they're killing players. But beyond that, it just sounds like you know, nobody's looking at the clock thinking like, Oh, you know, we got to get out of here soon, because we only paid for this many hours. They're just hanging out probably in somebody's house or wherever and having fun and goofing around. And that's, that was sort of the mentality I wanted to take in there. Because, you know, the This band is the band I recorded this with is with the exception of I guess a relatively new drummer, there are a bunch of guys that I've known for a while. And we're, I'd like to think we're pretty easygoing bunch most of the time. So it was, it just felt right to sort of go into that mentality of Hey, let's, let's just have fun. And let's leave weird stuff in this record. And, and let's, let's try to get some of that. good feeling. on tape again.

Thomas Mooney 22:42

Yeah. Yeah, no one was, uh, was having more fun than Jerry, Jeff, back in the 70s.

Colter Wall 22:47

Yeah, for sure. I mean, those guys were the most my favorite records have things like that, you know, they're a great album, Remo Jack's, that not a lot of people know called Bull Durham sacks and railroad tracks. I think Charlie Daniels produced it. And they leave all kinds of weird stuff on there. Now, there's a whole track that's just jack messing around with this tape echo effect and doing impressions and goofing around with the studio guys. Everybody's laughing and I just left it on the record, you know, a lot of guys would, you know, cut that out, I guess and sort of cleaned it up. But I like to hear and that sort of thing to me that makes it more personable experience. You know, so, yeah, we tried to take a little bit of that and, and, and get that sort of same feeler or something close to it, I guess.

Thomas Mooney 23:37

Yeah. Leave some of that personality on him. You know? Yeah, exactly. The man you go back and whenever Charlie Daniels died, I went back and was I knew he had done some the a couple of records with Bob Dylan and on some Leonard Cohen stuff, but I went back looking through and man, you look at his credits. He's got like, he's, like you said that ramblin jack record. There's just like, there's a lot of people that you'd be kind of surprised that he was what records he was on, you know?

Colter Wall 24:10

Yeah, there's a quote from somebody that said, you know, Charlie, no matter what he was doing, whether he was playing on a record producing it, or what it currently was in the control room of the studio, then you knew it was gonna be fun. You knew it was gonna sound great. I can't remember who said that. But I remember reading that somewhere, someone talking about, you know, just him being around for sessions, whether he was picking on him or wherever he was just around, you know, but you knew it was gonna sound really good and it's gonna be a lot of fun. Man, I love that. I was listening to a bunch of bunch of his stuff and of course, stuff that he had played on other people's whenever heard about his passing out. We will not remember what we're doing that they've been read. We're out on the action. Definitely had sort of a, I mean, it's a solid thing anytime one of those greats dies, you know, you can't help but get a little down. But then it's also can be, can be great because you go back and listen to stuff that I had to listen to in a really long time or maybe stuff I'd almost have forgotten about records. And you know, certain particular songs are besides or stuff like that.

Thomas Mooney 25:23

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And there's also like this, I think like you always kind of, especially guys from the past, you send to get their entire catalogue at once, since you weren't really around when it was being released. You kind of get the sense that like, you know, all these guys, you know, you started out really young, and was just Charlie Daniels when he was young. And that's really not the case. You know, he, there's, he's like, you know, he started out as a studio guy, and, you know, then like, become became part of a guy in a band kind of thing. And then like, you know, finally had some success as a, as a solo artist. And you, when you kind of go back and listen to someone's career like that you, you get more context and more appreciation for the struggle of it all.

Colter Wall 26:15

The hard work. Yeah, absolutely.

Thomas Mooney 26:18

You know, one of the

Colter Wall 26:21

there was one out tell you this real quick. But that day, the day that Charlie died, I was reading about it. I had just remember this that night, when we were whenever we finished up, doing weird pride picks and fancies on I don't remember, but we're doing whatever it is we were doing. And we called up our we have mutual friend, Mike back to me and my friend Dave, and I recorded one of his songs A while ago called hyper union needs a great songwriter, and a really cool dude. And he's just one of them, guys. It's got a story for everything. And he knew everybody at one point. And, of course, the immediate like, oh, man, I haven't tell you my Charlie Daniels story, which was, he always starts with stories like that. And I ever tell you this, and when you just kind of lean back and let him go for about an hour. Kind of like, I guess it'd be like ramblin jack in that sense that you just sort of sit back and listen to this crazy story. And he says this whole thing about I won't do the whole story because we'll be here for too long. But he told this whole story about going to Nashville and wanting to be on the play lead. Play lead guitar for somebody in somebody's band. I can't remember what he said it was what I guess he went up to Charlie's had like a he used to have a little ranch of his own up Mount Juliet. Outside of Nashville. And I guess Mike went there kind of looking for a gig and and Charlie figured out that Mike was kind of a bit of a, you know, he had that has the whole California look to him and the whole Buckaroo thing and wanted to get him in the arena to rope some shit show him the ropes and some hidden he said he dragged him in there. were open, like these green Colts or something. And that was was Charlie's way of getting these like green agricultural generals, to rope the shit out of them, I guess. But, you know, he told that it ended up being a great day because we just sat with Mike tell his story is great story about Charlie Daniels. Man, I didn't even know that you met the guy and like, Oh, yeah, he was real surly. But he was like, yelling at the ranch manager and all kinds of stuff. But anyhow, it is. It was sad when we heard the news, but I got a great story out of it. Got to go back and dig through some really, really good music. Yeah. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 28:42

I mean, it was so funny about all that tears. Like I think at the end of the day, like Charlie Daniels was always Charlie Daniels. Like no matter what yeah.

Colter Wall 28:53

Yeah, I mean, there's no put on that. That's just the way that that was man. He was he was wild and you know and then the nobody liked him. All them old guys, man. They were so unique. And even you know certain guys that you said might seem to be similar. They're all so unique and then don't just don't make them like that anymore. I guess which is cliche but dammit it's true.

Thomas Mooney 29:21

Yeah, yeah, there's a It feels like you know, in a way like even just 40 years ago, sometimes you you get that sense of that wild west in people where you know you it's not so we got to be so formal about everything these guys kind of just came from a different time where there's a little bit more a little bit more just you know, little bit more fun I don't know not necessarily Fun. Fun now do but you know

Colter Wall 29:54

well you know i think a lot of it and and probably get in trouble. for saying this sort of thing, but, you know, nowadays, you got a lot of new artists that they come out on whatever scene and they started to get a little bit of attention, they signed record deals and these record label folks, you know, I don't care whether it's, you know, some little independent label, or universal or Warner or whoever the hell, they all want to, they all want to sort of piece together this thing, they call it a narrative, or artists, they all want to, you know, tell their version of they will all want to sort of present this artist in a certain way and, and make them into this thing. So that, you know, they can, I guess, I'm really not sure why I guess that that's what how their system works. And that's how they sell shit, you know, and sell records but didn't have that back in the day, man, people. There was no narrative being told other than the act, you know, the stories you hear about these guys, just like the one that Mike was telling us, and, you know, word of mouth kind of thing. And then, of course, the songs and the records. That's where most of the narrative was, was, well just listen to the fuckin record, you know, you don't have to have some schemed up record label thing to get people to know who you are. That's what the records for you know?

Thomas Mooney 31:19

Yeah, like,

Colter Wall 31:20

talk that I hear you, man that it's definitely nowadays, you get kind of a lot of what feels like really forced. Personas, I guess, would be the word. Wouldn't people and, you know, whatever. I guess that's what works for some people. But I've always liked to, I think that's one of the things but all the old guys that makes them so great is they didn't man they weren't doing any of that crap. And they were just being themselves and, and putting themselves out there, you know, are the good ones were anyways? Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 31:58

I mean, the the narrative thing, the talking points, the, you know, focus on this. I mean, I know, like, that's, like, no matter even if you're not even that big of an artist, you know, you can be coached by your, your team or whatever, to put on a certain hat, you know, a certain vibe or whatever. And, you know, it's,

Colter Wall 32:23

yeah, I think a lot of people slip into that sort of thing, because that, whether they're new and they just don't know any better, or they they're been convinced that that's what you need to do, you know, that whole deal. But I don't have a lot of patience for that, man, I get tired of it, neediness, get all these manufactured personalities out of it, you know, and that stuff's not gonna last, you know, that's not going to stand the test of time, like, some of these guys records we've been talking about, you know,

Thomas Mooney 32:53

yeah, that's that, to me, he always just goes back to the record, like, go back to the record, go back to the music, go back to talking with the artist, versus, you know, going through these different lenses and stuff. You know, one of the things you've been talking about, Mike, of course, you did that song of his. There's a few songs that I feel like you've done that, or that or covers that are more recent, but they have that timelessness of, you know, that of more traditional stuff, obviously, like you did, Diamond Joe, which is a traditional song. And, you know, they don't that doesn't feel weird next to a song that's more from a more of a contemporary than, then, you know, aged with time, if

Colter Wall 33:45

you will. Yeah. Well, that's, it's kind of a balancing act. And I've been figuring this out over the past few years, because it's, I love singing those old songs and the old traditions that have been around forever. And a lot of times, they're all I feel like singing because I think they're a lot better than my songs. But at the same time, in the world of country, Western music, and I think especially in the world, cowboy song, it's really important to, I mean, do all them old songs and make people aware of that stuff, but it's also really important, I think, to, you know, keep it keep it contemporary and bring something new to the table. To the best of your ability, and I think a lot of people, a lot of people think, you know, they kind of get this idea of cowboy songs and I think maybe think sons of the pioneers. And it's all sort of Oh, the good old days and days gone by and that sort of just reinforcing the whole the whole idea that you know, it's all all that's all passed now and you know, we move those times aren't like that anymore, and they're not like that anymore. But guess what, they're still you know, Just a you know, we just went on to wherever and got a cheeseburger, somebody was looking after that down there. And there's still people out there doing it, people have been saying that, you know, that whole way of life is, is dying. And people have been saying that for hundreds of years. Yeah, it's not done it changes just like anything, you know, certain things about to change, certain things don't. But things about a change. And, you know, I think that should go into a lot of songwriting too, or a lot of you, whatever it is, whether it's your song, someone else's, it's important, I think, just to keep people aware that like, hey, this still is a, you know, this is not a dead way of life. And this is not a thing of the past, you know, a lot of time has gone by, and things have changed. And, and, you know, you see a lot of them open spaces that are synonymous with the West and kind of closing in, you know, but at the same time, that was our live and well, man. And, and, you know, a lot of guys, I know that I've considered to be, you know, real top hands, and the real deal, unlike myself, they want to hear they love old songs, but they want to hear new stuff, too. And they want to hear about, they like hearing about, that they do today, you know, and not just, you know, get along little doggies and trail diving and, you know, old song strawberry rolling kind of stuff, right? don't paint that they want to hear those, but they like hearing that their stuff, man. And they, because it's about them, you know, and, and those guys are still around, and they're still, you know, putting food on tables, or the whole damn nation? Yeah, yeah. The, that's been kind of tough to find II because I like doing both. Try to do a little bit of both, you know, traditionals? And also, you know, approaching it with newer stuff. Yeah. You know, from that sort of point of view, I guess.

Thomas Mooney 37:07

Yeah. The, you know, it the whole point on like, everyone like that, like the, I guess, to go back to narrative, the the narrative that the the West is, is gone, or like, you know, it's it's closed down, has been going on for centuries. Now. If you watch any Western movie, like, I love westerns, but one of the, you know, universal central themes of a lot of these movies has always been that, you know, the West is finally been tamed. Or, like, you know, he's the last of the kind and, you know, there there is something to it. But there's also, you know, there's a lot of things in in this way of life that you there's just no other way to do it. Other than that way, as as great innovation has, has helped modernize so many things. Like there's some some some things are just they have to be done manually and by hand and just the way it'll be for

Colter Wall 38:09

for a while. Yeah, yeah. No, people, I think people really like for whatever reason, they really loved the whole last of the dying breed narrative. And I guess it fails or whatever. But like I said, Man, there's I don't think, I don't think any of that stuff's going anywhere. It's not going away, despite what people have been saying for the last 100 years. And, you know, you can talk to a lot of historians, and they'll tell you that the real untamed woolly days of the West, you know, they were they last about one generation, and it was real short lived. But you know, that's, that's the history of a whole culture. And it Don't go away, you know, it changes, but it is a culture, you know, and there's some, some of that, like, said, changes, and we start to see, you know, I guess places where maybe at one point, there was just all folks that can see, you know, you might think of as true blue Westerners and now you get people moving in from other other places, whether it's, you know, the East Coast or the West Coast or whatever, but there's always going to be people that that are sort of passing the torch and, and, and sort of maintain that culture, you know, because it's just built into you at a certain point. You just, that's what you do. It just sort of passes down through the generations and it'll change and

certain things about it'll change, but it'll always be there. Like, that's what I like to thank and I guess well, I mean, I just like to say

Thomas Mooney 40:02

If you I think if you with anything really if you search for it, you can find it. And you can find that magic over it. Or the, you know, the obviously there's a lot of nostalgia and mad magic with it. But there's also a lot of if you want to find the hard work. I'm sure there's plenty of people you can meet the This episode is in part brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas, while blue light is still closed due to the pandemic, there is a way to help a support blue light, and B get a sense of that normalcy by visiting blue light, loving, calm, clicking on the merge tab, and getting some koozies a vast array of T shirts and caps, and yes, even a blue light flag. While it is such a bummer, that live music is still on hold right now. I'm telling you, by getting some blue light live merge, we're gonna feel better, it just feels better wearing a T shirt and ballcap and helping support your favorite four. Again, that's blue light lubbock.com, click on the merge tab, get some merge. All right, back to the episode. You know, one of my favorite songs on here, he did a talk and talking for a boy. And you know that that has a lot of plenty, plenty of funny. Little whispers and snappers, and jokes and one liners and

when were you Where were you at when

you started writing that song? Because obviously you're kind of poking fun at you know?

Colter Wall 41:46

Yeah, I think like that one was kind of a, it was one of them songs to

pick up probably wrote, I think I had the intention of writing two different talking bruises. And they kind of got thrown in together on one I think is what happened with that song. And this is a while this would have been probably a couple of years ago. There's a lot of these songs, you know, as far as the originals go anyways, and I guess some of the covers too. I've been singing a lot of this stuff for a long time and just hasn't made its way onto the tape yet. But yeah, the talking period, boy, I think I think I started writing some of it back home in southwest Saskatchewan, like the first few verses, I think, would have probably written back home because I would have just been writing about home, which is something I like to do a lot. But I think talking about the all the stuff with the least most of them, I'm almost certain that I was had to be in school whenever that was going on. Because it's sort of you know, it's I wouldn't say it's exactly a true story. And it's very influenced by an encounter had at that at the Legion and in East Nashville, post, or two, I think it is, which is a great little bar, but I got a lot of opinions about the crowd there. So I won't get into now. But yeah, that's sort of where the song just decided that I was gonna throw them together. Because I had these, you know, talking blues are a lot of fun. And I've always been a fan of that style of penguins act as a kind of them and beyond it. And it's a real op kind of thing, but they're just a lot of fun. And the rhyme schemes, a lot of fun. And then the whole thing is meant to be you know, I like getting comedic with stuff. And talking losers are perfect for that sort of thing. So it was I just kind of had a lot of fun with that one. But yeah, I think it probably would have been over the course of last couple of years, sort of pieced together from I'm sure what was originally going to be two different talking losers, you know, because they're all the same that they'll have, they're all kind of laid out the same way as far as, you know, the the way that the chord progression and the way that it's I can't think of the word. But you know, the way that it all sort of flows out. They're really all the same. They kind of have the same song structure, I guess is what you'd say. So they just kind of got put together, but yeah, I'm glad you like that one that's just just having a little bit of a laugh that one.

Thomas Mooney 44:44

Yeah, that like that kind of like the talking blue stuff you. It feels like in that kind of structure you you, you're able to like really bend language a lot more. You're able to you That's where you can like really, you know, make make, make rhymes, draw them out or like really like, shoehorn them in and be real inventive, more so and then then other songs by and that's like just a great way to, that's a great space for, for really trying to like pack in a whole lot of words or vows, or

Colter Wall 45:24

there's a lot of freedom in themselves because you know, it's fine, because I think Todd Snyder recently put out a new toggle blues, which he's done a ton of them too, because that's, you know, he knows his stuff. And that's totally his style, which I always dig about that guy. But he, I think he did one recently, where the first one of the first ones in the songs is, you know, it's a medic kind of thing, because he's, he's singing the talking blues about talking blues, as he says, toggle blues is very easy to do, you just have to run a time or two at a time or two now and then and you don't have to ever I'm again, and then it goes see I can say whatever I want to now, which I think is brilliant, because that is it's so true about those songs, you know, and it just adds to the comedic factor of it is, there's not a whole lot of rhyming, get a lot of freedom with what you can say because you know, you only have to write a few lines, and then you always get a kicker on the end. There's always that last sort of little line kicker at the end of the phrase, these talking bruises that it doesn't rhyme with anything, it's just kind of thrown in there for fun. So and that's called v man, it's just a different approach to, to writing. And I'm a big fan of that sort of thing.

Thomas Mooney 46:42

Yeah. And, of course, on the the liner notes, the credits there, I noticed the, your credit Blake to creaky screen door. And

Colter Wall 46:54

yeah, so we were getting that take, and I don't know if it was the first take or the second tape. But you know, as you know, it's just me on that track. It's not, there's no band on that or anything, no company. It's just me picking and talking. And then my buddy, a very mind from scattering, like Bergman, who is also a great songwriter. And he's just been a good friend of mine for a few years now. And he was kind of kind of tag was tagging along with myself in the band because I had gone down to Texas early to stay with my friend on his ranch that I was telling you about before and, and the band was going to meet up we were all going to meet up in Wimberley. And I found out bourbon was around and figured that it'd be cool to have him he's just kind of guy you want and that sort of setting talk about, you know, fun records, like we were talking about before he's, he's perfect for that. So he was hanging out and throughout the whole time, you know, just having fun, and he was not with us and and whenever I was recording that track, I guess he had tried to, there's a screen door, that sort of, I guess it's not the main front door of the studio, but it's the one that everyone uses goes backwards, where it goes down the hill kind of goes down the river and there's fireplace and stuff. And I guess he had figured that we maybe we were finished so you can hear him on the track because he kept it I thought it was perfect. And you can hear him open that damn screen door right towards the end of the song. And then you can try to hear him close it because he realizes that he had he's backed up and walked in on on the take. So he's sort of here I'm slowly close it and then at the very end of the song, you hear it open again, you hear him walk in and we all kind of start laughing and pointing at him and stuff. But it's just, you know, like we were talking about before. That's the kind of thing I love to hear on a record when I'm listening to stuff out. I just like when little things like that are left in because it's just sort of makes you feel like you they're almost and like you say adds adds a lot of personality to the track whereas, you know, some people will probably call that unprofessionalism, but to me, that makes a record for that sort of thing, you know? So yeah, put that down. And I felt like I should attribute or attribute that to him in the liner notes. So if you read the liner notes on talking blue as you can see it says me vocals and guitar and then says Blake bergland screamed or creaky screen door whatever.

Thomas Mooney 49:33

Yeah, you know the thing. JOHN, it's all about the, the fun ness of the record the you know, like there is that live element but it's almost what I've kind of described as is more of a you know, I'm somewhere in the house and you walk into the kitchen and y'all have just magically set up. Shop. right there and started playing, you know, or you walk outside, and there's the campfire, and y'all are just sitting there, you know? So like that, to me, that's what the, it feels like that kind of live setting versus, you know, you guys on stage even?

Colter Wall 50:17

Yeah, well, I'm really glad to hear that he sort of recorded this album in two different setups as far as using the rooms. And there's a lot of the rooms in that studio, which is really, you know, it's an old house, Yellow Dog, just a little Ranch House, brick ranch house. And they've got different, you know, rooms, that you can close and sort of get some isolation, sound wise, but we left a lot of shit open, we left a lot of doors open to other rooms, and we'd set up, you know, in the main living room, we'd have a big room mic and try to capture a lot of space on the record, because I've always liked that on the record, as opposed to, you know, things sounded real compressed. And we sort of went out of two ways, because about half of the record is, is me in the band, and it's a little more, there's a little more going on. And then the other half the record is kind of just as more of a solo, maybe a company meant here or there. And the way we did it was all that all that the songs were it's kind of just me and maybe somebody else, maybe it's pat on the dobo or Jake on the harmonica, and there's no rhythm section or anything else going on. Those are all live as opposed to overdubs, we kind of it was more of just a stand around this one on the mic kind of thing, stand around a big ribbon, room mic and, and play into it. As opposed to, you know, tracking the rhythm section and vocals and stuff, and then getting all the other stuff, all the lead stuff separate for overdubs and whatnot. So I kind of was going for one part, you know, studio album for band setup, with still a lot of space and room. And then, and then in one part more, kind of just sitting around, like sitting around a campfire kind of thing. Or I was calling them the cow camp tracks, because I wanted them to just sound like you know, maybe two or three guys sit around cow camp and picking out an old song or something. So that was kind of the end again, that was sort of a balancing thing to try to make that work between the busy songs that have a little bit more going on. And then the the more full back kind of reined in stuff stripped down stuff, but that was my intention, I guess was trying to combine them two things and then just sort of pepper all that in. On the on both sides of the record.

Thomas Mooney 52:56

Yeah, yeah. It's

uh, I mean, I really like it. I love like just the the vibe and the mood of the record. Also, I was gonna ask about you did that song with Vincent Neil Emerson Road Runner. And was this that recorded around this time to?

Colter Wall 53:15

This would have been? You know, what? That would have been? I think maybe before? Yeah, that would have been right around. When we got to do really picnic last summer, I guess. So this would have been just before that, because we I haven't fly down from Texas. To do. I had to fly down to Texas from home that summer. Because I was recording a few things with some buddies there. And one of them was dancing. And he had sort of a rough track a road runner, which he had written a while back, and I'd heard him playing it on some tour we were doing together, but kind of always sing along with him. Just catchy, you know, good melody. He's really good about that. But melodies got some good ones. So he decided that he was gonna he wanted me to sing in harmony, which can sound a little harmless. I mean, I'm not I really don't know what I'm doing while I'm doing it, but I can kind of you know, just listen and kind of develop the harmony line. I learned to sing harmonies my version of it by from a pretty young age listening to the band, who's one of my, a lot of my favorite records are the band and those guys were not fitting perfect harmony. They were kind of just doing what I like to do, which is finding the right part that fits in between, you know, whatever else it might be, and, and they were kind of just using, they're kind of, you know, going by ear. And that's sort of what I tried to do too. And of course, I've worked on that throughout the years. But anyways, when we sing harmonies On the record, so he had sort of a rough track of Roadrunner, and I sang over it. And he ended up re recording a lot of it, but he kept my vocals. From whenever we did that last summer, I guess it would have been last July, or last into June. And he kept it and ended up putting it on the final cut of that. of that song, which I'm glad he did. I think it's a material good song. And I'm a big fan of Vincent says, you know, it's so cool to get to do that with.

Thomas Mooney 55:32

Yeah, I just love the, like that first image of you know, I pluck a feather from my tail. Like, that's just the the perfect, he's a good writer, man.

Colter Wall 55:42

He's either right in front of a bitch. I mean, he'll, he'll text me out of the blue. And it'll be like three days in a row. And they're all new songs. You know, just text me in the evening or whatever, middle of the day, and Hey, what do you think about this, we think about this. kid's been on a damn roll lately. And I call him kid and he's older than I am. But, you know, he, he's like a brother. To me. I love the guy to death. And, and he he can write he's got he's got that part figured out? For sure.

Thomas Mooney 56:13

Yeah, yeah, I, I don't know, I guess it was about last year. He was in town. And we did an episode. And he's just like, I don't know, you can? I don't know. He likes all over the earth kind of guy. You know, you can just like have that any kind of conversation, whatever. Subject really. And he, he's going to conversate with you, you know? And,

Colter Wall 56:37

yeah. I always say that. If you can't get along with that guy, then probably not a whole lot of people that you'll get along with, because he's, he's everybody's friend. You know, the second you meet him. He's, he's your buddy. But he also could, you know, as far as what's, you know, I think a lot of people in the music industry get caught up. Like we were talking about before with personas and stuff they get caught up with how they're presenting themselves and, you know, being cool and stuff or wanting to be a certain way. And Vince doesn't have that in him, which is something that I've figured out pretty quick getting to know him and I love that about him when he hears himself. You know, he's, yeah, he doesn't much care if you like it or not. And I love that about him. And he's, he's, he's consistently that, you know, he ain't trying to impress nobody, he's, and if you make a friend out of them, they'll be your friend for life. But he's got to be himself, you know, and I love that about the guy, man. I think it is. You can hear it in the songs too. You can hear it in his, in his records and in his music. That's what the that's what everybody should be striving for. I don't think it is, but it's what it should be.

Thomas Mooney 57:51

Yeah, the year and especially like in the song like 711. Like his vocal. Yeah, there's like some kind of just pain in there, like that, is that he ends as long as like that you can just feel like that kind of just the that pain is sort of like in the same way. He taps into the same thing that like Ray Wylie Hubbard taps into when he's singing a song about Gamblin. And, yeah, yeah. But then, of course, also at the same time, like, you know, Willie Nelson's wall, like, you know, that's just like, that's another little fun little song. And, you know, he's jovial in that and I know there's I think there's a lot of nuance, I guess, is what I'm saying in his vocals.

Colter Wall 58:41

Yeah, it's not you know, there might be folks out there, Austin, Nashville, wherever, that kind of has maybe right in a similar similar strain as you guys like vamps, but that's hard mark to hit. And you got to be honest about it. If you're gonna if you want to do it, right. And he's, he's got a man. He's got it right on. I figured that out pretty quick. And we've been buddies, I guess. I probably met him. Maybe about three years ago now. Like that two years ago. It's been a long time, but like, I've known him a long time. He's He's good people.

Thomas Mooney 59:19

Yeah, I don't think he told me he talked about it on the during the podcast, but he had mentioned this typical newslink fashion is, yeah, after we stopped recording, he tells me this great story about y'all seeing ramblin jack in Yes, it was Fort Worth Dallas, and like it was not many people there in his room. Yeah.

Colter Wall 59:42

Yeah, I was there with him. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of the same thing. It was in Fort Worth at a little tiny upstairs joint. Kind of any you buy your tickets at the door and you climb up a bunch of five stairs to get to this little, almost like a speakeasy I guess a little bar. real small room like maybe 50 people, max capacity, maybe? I doubt it even maybe more like 40 or 30. But we went to go see him we wrangled tickets and went to go see him. And it was pretty surreal. I mean, I believe that was my first time seeing brammall jacket person. So Vince and me both. There's something else, I think I'm guessing that's probably the same story because it sounds like it. But yeah, we went to go see him and just kind of sat there with our jaws on the floor, you know?

Thomas Mooney 1:00:37

Yeah, yeah. The, the just, you know, there's always the whole, you know, don't meet your heroes or anything like that. But you know, a lot of times I think, I don't even know if that I bide by that rule. You know, because a lot of times you meet a lot of these people when they're there, if you like, well,

Colter Wall 1:00:57

there's exceptions to every rule. And if anyone is the exception to that rule, it's ramblin. JACK Elliott. Because I mean, that this is a guy that is so it blows my mind to think about him still being around because he lived through so damn much and covered so much ground and knew everybody and everybody adored this guy. I mean, he was he was everybody's idol, even though he himself never really found never made it bigger, necessarily, per se, which is another one of my favorite things about him that, you know, he didn't want to he didn't want that he just wanted to run around the world in the country and, and sail and cowboy and all the things that ran rejected. But I'd say he's the exception to that rule, if anybody is because he, he might as well be from a different planet with, you know, his story and where he comes from. And you can tell talking to them tonight, ramblin jack will talk to anybody. I've seen him now the past couple of years at the poetry gathering in Elko, Nevada, because he loves to go to that and then should just be wandering around the streets or in one of the diners there and alko. And anybody can come up to he'll talk to anyone, you know, he doesn't. Like he doesn't know who he is, really. But yeah, if you have the opportunity to meet him and jack, I mean, beyond seeing them play, obviously. But you have the opportunity to walk up to that guy, talk to him. Go do it, because he's one of them, guys. Again, you don't you know, you don't have to say anything to ramblin jack or guys like that. You don't have to really say much. You just start them up on something, wait for him to take off on something. And then you sit back and shut the hell up and listen, and just, you know, live in that moment, because it's a rare moment. And it's a beautiful moment. And we got to do that Vince and I got through that a little bit that night in Fort Worth. And he was there with Larry Mae hand too, which was pretty damn cool. So I got to meet Larry man and ranma jack in the same night. Yeah, like I was in a guy Clark song.

Thomas Mooney 1:03:05

Yeah, it was definitely that night. Because now that you mentioned Larry being there.

Colter Wall 1:03:11

Yeah, he was there and they sang together. I think they saying You Are My Sunshine together, but it wasn't to the crowd. They're like singing it to each other. Like, just, again, you just feel like you're a fly on the wall and some amazing moments, you know? Yeah. But yeah, that was that was pretty cool.

Thomas Mooney 1:03:30

Yeah, I always love whenever you when you interview one of these guys who, for example, like probably, I don't know, five, six years ago, I interviewed Billy Joe shaver. And we talked for about an hour or so I probably had like 10 minutes of, of dialogue. And the rest was him talking. And it was you know, just me. There's no other way I'd want it. You know? Just to hear those guys. Yeah,

Colter Wall 1:03:58

those are the golden moments and you know that you keep those with you. I can remember, I don't have the best memory I'll admit. I'm admittedly pretty bad at remembering stuff. But those are any moments I've had like that with guys like Billy Joe or jack. Or Ian Tyson or john prine or anyone I've been lucky enough to be around for even if it's just five minutes. Now, I don't think I'll ever forget those because those are. I mean, how could you you know?

Thomas Mooney 1:04:32

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, man. I

think that's that's probably a good capper right there. It's been good talking.

Colter Wall 1:04:41

Go. There. Yeah, man. I appreciate it.

Thomas Mooney 1:04:46

Okay, that does it for this week. I hope you really enjoyed this one. Be sure to check out Coulter walls, upcoming album, Western swing and Waltz's and other punchy songs out Friday, August 28. Check out episode part Desert door Texas settle

and the blue light live.

Alright, we'll see you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai