111: Ashley Ray
We kick off the week with Episode 111 where I'm joined by singer-songwriter Ashley Ray. Ray is releasing Pauline, a tightknit 10-song collection of vignette-styled memories, warm introspection, and dynamic charmers about small-town life, nostalgia, memories, and family roots, on Friday, August 14. Much of Pauline's strengths stem from Ray's ability to draw from childhood memories and those deep family roots. Songs feel as though she's flipping through old photo albums. Ray points to family portraits and candids and begins painting the glowing world in which they lived in. At times, there's a haze that permeates the recollection, but it adds to the genuineness and emotional ties of the current day. During this interview, Ray and I discuss growing up in Kansas, moving to Nashville, the memory-filled songwriting of Pauline, and recording the album with friend and often collaborator, Sean McConnell.
This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.
Interview Transcript
Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.
Thomas Mooney 0:01
Hey all welcome to new slang on music journalist Thomas Mooney. We start off this week with Episode 111, where I'm joined by singer songwriter Ashley Ray. I caught up with Ashley A while back to talk about her new record Pauline, which is released this Friday, August 14, Ashley enlisted one of her longtime buddies and collaborators to produce Pauline, one of our favorites over here on new slang, Mr. Shawn McConnell. That's one of my favorite parts of this interview to you primarily think of Shawn as a songwriter and a performer. And there's plenty of great commentary from Ashley about him being both of those. But she also gives some really great insight about him being a producer and working with him on that side. One of my favorite things about Pauline is the delicate and careful attention to the songs and the overall mood and feel of the album, you really sink into the songs It feels like you're sitting on a couch or something. And Ashley is flipping through an old photo album or something. As she's flipping through the pages, she's pointing out different photos and kind of given the backstory of that person or why that photo was taken there or whatever the case is. And of course, that doesn't mean that she's just telling introspective stories that are serious. You feel like the gritty charm and like just the little bit of attitude of a song, like the infectious dirty work just as much as you do on something that's maybe a little bit more intimate, and contemplate of like the song, just the house. You need all those parts of the puzzle for this record, the hometown love Letteri nature of a song like Lawrence, Kansas, it tells just as much about Ashley as the sparse nature, and the frustration of being a struggling artist in this song waiting, I find it fascinating the way she's been able to write these songs because you do feel you get so much backstory about Ashley and a lot of her emotional ties to to Lawrence, Kansas and becoming an artist and family. And a lot of these songs, she is letting her guard down and inviting you in to see these very vulnerable moments. But at the same time it feels like she sometimes kind of pushing the the persona of of these characters a little bit further out. blurring that line between fact and fiction and I just find this entire record just really incredibly fascinating and, and I just keep on going back to it again, just to try and like understand another layer of of the record. And these stories. And again, the record comes out this Friday. She does have a few songs out already, I would suggest go checking out a song like dirty work or just the house. Today's presenting sponsor is desert door, Texas SoTL. If you know anything about me, it's probably that I'm from the heart of West Texas and absolutely love everything about West Texas. And that's really why I love desert door so much. You may be asking yourself what exactly salto is, well it's a premium spirit that's similar to a tequila or a Moscow, but for my money. It's a little bit more refined and smooth. There's a sweetness and faint hints of vanilla and citrus and it's also as versatile as your garden variety vodka. At its core desert door is authentically West Texas, they go out and harvest Soto plants from the wild and bring them back to their distillery over in driftwood, Texas. So next time you're at your local liquor store, get a bottle of desert door. For more info, check this episode's show notes. If this is your first time listening to new slang, I strongly suggest hitting that subscribe link. If you just did, I'm giving you a virtual High Five right now. New slang is over on iTunes, Spotify, Google podcasts, Stitcher Radio, and basically any and everywhere you listen to podcasts. Go check out the new slang merch store. Grab a koozie some stickers, buttons and magnets. Any bit helps, I'll throw a link into the show notes. And if you're into playlist, go check out Tom Rooney's cup of coffee and the neon Eon playlist over on Spotify. The neon Eon is for all your nostalgic 90s country needs, which there's going to be more neon Eon related stuff coming your way pretty soon. And then Tom mooneyes cup of coffee is a regularly updated mix of new Americana and country music. It's also a really great hint who I have coming up on the podcast. So yeah, go follow those. Alright, that's enough rambling here. Here is Ashley Ray.
Yeah, so I guess like you know, I came across dirty work the other day, and from there, started looking back in and trying to figure out what this record was. Gonna Be and it feels like it there's so much of this record is like, I guess like a collection of like vignettes that are like these snapshot memories for you is that kind of what it what it is is like these songs are kind of like have a lot of like, roots and basis in like old memories that that you just kind of are just just didn't have just never really left you.
Ashley Ray 5:32
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's it's a memoir put to music. I'm a huge reader, my favorite thing to read is no more. I just loved people and stories, obviously, I'm a songwriter. And I love more so listening to stories. And I never, it took me a long time to be able to write about what hurt for a few reasons. I mean, a you got to go there, you got to write about the triggers and the things that hurt and bring it up again and dig into it. And I wasn't ready to do that for a really long time. I mean, this is my third record. And I'm, you know, not in my 20s anymore. And so there was that and then when you bring up those wounds yourself, then you bring up the memories and the wounds of the people you love your family. And I was afraid to do that, you know, we I wanted it to be honest and real. Because we've gone through a lot and I still wanted it to be something that wouldn't trigger them completely. And we you know, we choose to talk about the people we've lost every time we're together and and remember the good times and so yeah, putting this was putting memories to music for me completely. So what you described is, is me just talking, I was in the studio with Sean McConnell. He's one of my dear friends and he produced it produced the whole record and I mean, we would just sit up in his studio at his house and I would just talk about my family and we would, we would write you're probably sorry, gonna you're gonna hear some snorts and so some snores I am house setting and pugs sitting for my bass player and friend and there's I've got three pugs here. So you'll might hear some snorts
Thomas Mooney 7:53
of all the dogs that that probably snores the most.
Ashley Ray 7:59
And this little one is like six months old and she's currently like, I just have to watch her like a hawk because she will eat the couch. She she she's just like this little smashed and eyeball She's so cute.
Thomas Mooney 8:15
A pug when I go Okay, so like my brother and me are like 14 years apart. So when he was little I wasn't little, but he had one when he was, I don't know, toddler so and that thing was like, both the most like frustrating dog and like she was like the dog that you wanted to
Ashley Ray 8:34
cuddle up with the most like it was just okay, this is current. She's currently an antler. She's like wrestling Okay. Um, yeah, they all three slept with me so two of them the two oldest ones they're they're getting up there and yours and and then this fall when it's like six months old. So I'm seeing all sides of pug life over here.
Unknown Speaker 9:01
Yeah
Thomas Mooney 9:03
you mentioned Shawn McConnell Yes, he's been on the podcast before that was in person back when we could do that but yeah, obviously like you've you've co written with him and he produced this and I guess like what was it about where
I guess like at that moment when
you realized the what the record was going to be conceptually like that it was going to be these revolve around these memories and about these people and family people and was that he pushed you help you like fine I guess like that direction. Did he encourage like what was like that interaction between you too as far as like really kind of like forming this as, as a kind of like a family portrait book or something?
Unknown Speaker 9:58
Yeah.
Ashley Ray 10:01
Well, he and his wife have been two of my very best friends for oh my gosh, over 15 years, probably closer to 20. Okay. And so they, I felt at one point, I had lost a record deal. And I was just really down and jaded. Actually, it was the second record deal I had lost. What happened a couple of times is I would, I would turn in music, we would get the Okay, you know, and I would turn in music, and it just wasn't what they said was, you know, radio friendly. Um, and so I ended up losing a deal. And I made a record with Jay Joyce, who produced both of my records before this one, and he's the only producer I've ever had before, Sean. And I don't know if you're familiar with Jay, He's incredible. He's produced, actually the last Miranda, this most recent Miranda Lambert, record all of Eric church. So Shawn had said one day, I was just so I think we were writing for, you know, not this record. Okay. Okay. We were writing for not for not for Pauline, but for something else. And he had said, Ash, there's, there's this part of you, you know, because I was really like, down in the dumps. And he's like, there's this part of you, that nobody has seen before, you know, everybody thinks of you as this badass that can, like, get us on a stage and like, you know, just run across every inch of it, and just, like, pour your heart out. But I feel like a lot of people don't see that side where you're sitting around a campfire, and like you, you know, barely get through a song because you're feeling it so much. And then, you know, there's your songwriting, like, people are kind of missing that sometimes. And he's like, have you ever thought of making that your next direction and, and getting like, super vulnerable? And I was, like, you know, like, I didn't know that. That was, you know, the perception as a whole. And so, I was thinking about that, and I actually thought about it for a few months, and, you know, is back waiting tables again. And so, I guess, long story short, I, I came home one day, and I, this, this chorus, like basically came to me and as a songwriter, and creative person, and artists, you know, like, you know, the feeling of when something comes to you that you have to chase. So I ended up kind of just writing the chorus to the song called rock and roll. And I sent it to Shawn, I texted it to him. And I said, you know, I'm working on this, but I really just have this feeling in my gut, that this is something that we, you know, that you need to help me finish. And he's like, Okay, well, usually when I say the gut, because we're both very much advocates of like your own intuition and your gut. And so he was like, Okay, well, you know, see, he always says, like, see if you can finish it on your own, like, he's just an incredible friend, Coach everything. And so I just kept thinking, like, I kept thinking, Okay, okay. And I just, I knew I needed to write it with him. So we went in, and we wrote the song, rock'n'roll, and he said, Ashley, this is, this is something this is like, the beginning of fucking reckoning. And so that's when the record started, before we really even knew it.
So, yeah, it's, he was, he was able to, because we are so close, and he's like a brother to me. I was able to cry. Like, when we wrote every song on the record, I was able to actually, like, write the song still be hurting, so much like, open wound, that I was able to, like, bleed into the mic like, it was, I've never recorded like that ever before, to where it's just still so fresh. That when you sing it that it's, I mean, there's lots of times so I couldn't get through it. And I would say, I don't know why we're writing these songs because I'm never gonna be able to get on stage and sing them. Like they hurt too much so, but he was there to pour me a vodka tonic, and just listen and help me put these. I mean, put my life to music.
Thomas Mooney 15:13
Right? Yeah, like, it seems that Yeah, when something is can be so painful. A you it's very very difficult for for you to want to go there, but also like an honor. I guess I got another another aspect of it is you're I mean, if I was doing it I would maybe think like maybe I would be insecure about just the Do people really want to hear songs about me, you know what I mean? Is this too much of a something words, you know, do people think like, I'm just like, I needed like the ego stroke or something, you get what I'm saying? Like, I guess
Ashley Ray 16:00
I was just about to say that, like, oh, that went through my head so many times, I, you know, I was waiting tables again, I drive a 15 passenger van that's got 190,000 miles, I'm like, I'm writing these songs that are so personal. And I don't know why, you know, like, I had gone through the whole, like, this won't work on radio. So that was like growing around in my head. And, and, but then it got to the point Thomas, where I was just like, Listen, I can't make this music right now. Without, like, I have to do this for me. And for my family. And I just was able to, like put that aside after some time, you know. And just write it for me and, you know, be okay with waiting tables and be okay, with maybe nobody caring about it. But also deep inside me. I've always there's not. I have always loved the voices, and the stories that are so personal, and that are so specific. That it's universal. And I didn't know that that was happening. I didn't know I was writing that until like, after we started kind of just playing it for people. And I mean, I was just doing it for me. I wasn't like getting, you know, thinking about anybody but my family and I and yeah, so totally, you're, you're so right about that.
Thomas Mooney 17:44
Yeah, um, you know, a couple of the songs it feels, I guess, like, what the, the sonic qualities of it, and what the songs are about as far as like, like a song like St. Patrick's Day, it feels like you're very much like, there's like a, that fog or phase or that haze like in this memory that you're kind of like working through. And you're kind of like, at times, like where us as a listener, we can only like fill your hand put the pulling us through and like then there's these real vivid images and but it's still like a little hazy and foggy because it feels like it's a it's it very much feels like it's a memory that you're trying to put all those little pieces up. And like, that's a song that has like, even like you mentioned, like the Bud Light sign and stuff like that, right? That's like, it feels like you're like you're just kind of like trying to like re assemble that memory within that song. And I don't know, I just really like that kind of stuff right there that is part nostalgia, part. Old memories and part like trying to work through your own self and like trying to show parts of yourself to to an audience.
Ashley Ray 19:06
Yeah. Thank you. That's, it's it's easier, and it's harder. I feel. And I don't know how you feel about this. But it's easier to write about something so specific, because when I think back about my dad, you know, we lost him 12 years ago, when I think back about him. And you know, I played shitloads of dive bars. But the majority of my shows are in you know, dive bars and theaters, and they have been for years. And so when I'm in there and I see Bud Light sign jukebox, I mean, I think my dad like I've always got his hanky with me. It's always on my guitar strap or on my wrist or it's just like, I don't know that I would feel so calm. Trouble and confident in in these places they just I feel like home because I feel at home in a dive bar because I was raised and you know like I was I was raised drinking surely temples with with him and I see the Bud Light sign and it's at a bar in Lawrence Kansas called West Coast and West Coast saloon and it's just a bar in a strip mall and it's it's like I go there and in a way feels like it was yesterday.
Thomas Mooney 20:35
Yeah, do you do you have like a like a love hate relationship with like, where you your hometown kind of thing. I feel like a lot of people have that, where it takes like, a little bit of takes getting away to like really fully appreciate it.
Ashley Ray 20:52
I don't have that I love my hometown. I love going back. So I'm from Lawrence, Kansas, and it's just it's a college town. I got to most of my friends went to k u to Kansas University. And so I actually moved to Nashville when I was 18 and attended Belmont. And it was it's a Baptist school. So it was very different than Kansas. Very, very different than k U. So I could go back and visit my friends and have the real college experience. And then you know, come back and have the real like school experience at Belmont. But I love my hometown I I was just back last month it's just cool. There's a really cool downtown area. A little music scene there a lot of people you know, when they're traveling Texas they they hit Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and I love I love Lawrence so much I wouldn't want to be from anywhere else.
Thomas Mooney 22:07
Yeah, see, I grew up in like a a small small town like about 8000 in the middle of forts or it's fort Stockton in the middle of West Texas. So like I find the growing up like in a college town which I live in Lubbock and I've stay in loving I wonder how growing up in a in a college town that is like you know just so focused on the the center of the town The the core is a university how that is how that affects culture as far as like your it still feels like even if you're in the middle of nowhere you can it you have that pocket of culture because of the college students. Is that is that like what? what it was growing up? Did you What did you what was like your your early memories of like, finding music and, and stuff like that.
Ashley Ray 23:06
And finding music? Well, you're absolutely right about the culture. It's all Kansas basketball there. I mean, my grandpa would come up on Saturday mornings, we'd get ready. We go to the the Kansas, they call it band day. And so we'd go to the they had a parade and so I grew up like Rock Chalk Jayhawk hardcore. So the culture was like really rich with you know, like having a team to root for. And then early memories of music where I mean, my, my dad had a record player. He had it hooked to giant speakers. Bob's Seger was always in our house like, I mean, I'm talking weekly, if not daily, and I would just I would wake up with music playing and my we lived on a farm and they had friends over and I'd go to bed with music playing it was he had his his stash his like, little joint stash, and on top of the record player, and of course, I didn't know what it was when I was little, but I just grew up with music just always play in my house and, and so that's how I think it's just for as long as I can remember, it's just been something that I leaned on like, like a therapy. And they they didn't push me to do music or anything they I mean I just from a young age, gravitated toward it, poured it and so some of the earliest memories I mean, I would there's actually a video That will eventually we have plans to put out but it's my grandfather. He always had a camcorder like one of the huge ones just like on his shoulder attached, you know, like looking through the lens. Yeah, and, and I'm singing Bob Seger I'm singing the song called beautiful loser. That's actually a song that my dad, my sister, and I like, deemed our song. And so I just, I mean, I'm in my Levi's jeans and my Minnie Mouse sweatshirt, I was just out there like, performing records. Um, so that would be like one of my earliest ones. Of course, there's pictures that I can that I look back at now that I don't remember. And I'm like, in the footie pajamas like bald head, I'm like, I don't know one or two playing a piano like a little kid mini piano and. And then, you know, growing up, I took guitar lessons at a young age and my guitar teacher Tom was just, he introduced me to so much music, he really got me like he introduced me to all the Americana artists. And my my mom and dad more introduced me to like, the classic rock like some blues roots. Country Willie Nelson, like, just so I had different people introducing me to different corners of in different genres of music. Yeah, it's just there, man.
Thomas Mooney 26:45
It's, uh, you seem like the the old school camcorder the ones that you had to pop in the VHS to record on Amish? Oh, yeah, that's okay. That's how my grandparents were when I was real little. And it's just like, I wish people could understand like, just how much difficult how much more difficult it was to, like, capture these memories back then. It wasn't like you could just record on your phone. And obviously, that's so much easier, but like now you're just overloaded with it. The other thing I was wanting to say though, too, was the, this is something Exactly. I feel like, I'm the old man right now get off my lawn, even though like I'm old. But it's like, the the old record player with the speakers is like that's how it used to be where now I guess you can you know you just by most people by the record player that has like the built in for the CD, and the cassette and all that kind of stuff. But like those where you had to like hook up the the speakers, there was just that little bit of buzz to them. And that's where you really got the the music and the same thing with the camcorder thing. There's like that little bit of that, like, phase filter thing going, where, you know, it didn't really look like 99 or whatever.
Ashley Ray 28:08
Yeah, you're so right. Oh, that makes me feel like that makes me really tender. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 28:13
it's just like a warmness to all that stuff. I don't know, like, it's just nostalgia. You know, I wanted to pick back up on you talking about, you know, your previous label saying, you know, this isn't necessarily this isn't radio friendly. You kind of have that on waiting, where you're talking about that frustration, that all of that, just that pressure of you know, you moved to Nashville, like you said at 18. And it not going like, you know, where you're a superstar overnight. I'm sure you didn't expect that. But like, also at the same time it is. I'm assuming it like you'd have to be frustrating to not necessarily put your dreams on hold but like, reassess your dreams, I guess and realize that, you know, what you're doing is is still really pretty cool.
Ashley Ray 29:14
Yeah, I've used you said it, I've been through all of that I've, I've been through the place in my mind where it's, maybe I'm just going to create art with for other people. Maybe I'm just going to write with with other writers and just beyond records that way. Maybe I'm you know, my voice is too different to for people to gravitate towards it. I mean, I man it's it's been a long time. It's been 17 years in Nashville and almost half of my life, like, half of my life is in Kansas, and it's coming up on half of it being here and it's now you know how old I am.
And
yeah, it's um That line or it's thank God, I didn't know, like how goddamn long a drink takes to come true. Like, thank God I didn't know at 22 how goddamn long drinking takes to come true. Like, I, I said that. Because I really think the likes, I know, the Lord, like I really am like, I wouldn't have done it if I knew how hard and I mean, it's been like, constant ups and downs. And it's, I don't know, if I would have found another way to do music, I believe or I'd like to think that I would, or to, you know, be a writer in some other capacity. But I'm really glad I didn't know that it was gonna, you know, take this long and her and that little bit of the dreamer in me, and a little bit of niceness really went a long way. And you're right, I didn't, I didn't think I was gonna be an overnight success. But in my mind, I kind of thought, okay, I'll go to Belmont for two years, then I'll be too busy to worry that I can't go to school. You know, I wasn't thinking I'll be this big superstar. I was just thinking that, like, I was going to be doing music full time. And I ended up getting my degree and finishing, which I'm really grateful and glad. Yeah, just things never happened away. We have them in our minds. I don't think. So. Yeah. Waiting is I mean, every bit of it's true. I landed that tour with Eric church when he was selling out. bars and clubs and theaters. And. And I was just like, here we go like, this is happening. And it was and, and then, of course label didn't mean it's still hard today. That was 10 years ago, it's still hard for females to be on the radio today. And so I've always had to just pivot, but the one thing that has never changed is the music that I write. If I cut an outside song, it's got to be something that I feel to the bone like that I would wish so hard that I would have written. I just that's something that as you know, music is constantly changing with technology and everything. I look back on all, you know, the first two records, and this record, especially, and I'm proud of every song, like it's not something where somebody pushed me into making a record or songs that I you know, I'm like, oh, man, that wasn't me. And so I'm proud of that. Like I said it I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with this record or whatever capacity I just want to tour it and bring it to people and and share, share it with them and I want them to share their stories with me. And I'm off on a tangent. I'm very windy. I
Thomas Mooney 33:23
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Ashley Ray 35:26
what's the answer to that? Like, would you have still done it?
Thomas Mooney 35:30
I probably wouldn't have done it the same way. It's all I would say I can. And that would probably be where I would have I would have probably, like, just been gone into like, like, newspaper kind of stuff, or writing, like more traditional kind of news. For that, and rather than focus on music, but like, I don't know,
Ashley Ray 35:57
but we're grateful that, you know, this for the support, I can probably speak to every art for every artist on that.
Thomas Mooney 36:05
Yeah. Well, thank you. Um,
what,
what I was gonna say, though, too, is like, did you vote for me? Like, what I've realized it looking at music and looking at the the industry of like, who makes it who, quote unquote, doesn't make it all that stuff? is so much of it is is just like luck and timing. Is that like, what you've kind of gone back on to is like, realizing that so much of it is just the timing of it all?
Ashley Ray 36:39
I think so. You know, I don't think we actually do know. But I do think a lot of it is timing, a lot of it is luck. A lot of it is are you going to give up? Like, at some point, I do believe if you keep going, you have this dream and you don't quit, you know, if you quit something you're going to, I think fail obviously, because you're never going to get anywhere close to where you've been aiming. And yeah, I think so it's that like forging ahead. And sticking with it. And knowing that, listen, if you want it to come easy. It's probably not going to. So just get in there and know that and know that you're gonna have to pivot sometimes. I mean, I've said that every single day during this time with quarantine, like, releasing a record. I mean, we've had, we've had to pivot we, we want to be respectful of the times and the movement, and everything that's happening and, and there's absolutely more days where I need, you know, to get out there and fight for equality and good things for all people in this world. Nothing political or anything, just like fight for the greater good of humans more than I need to promote my record and, and, you know, it's I think it's a lot of things, you know, it also huge, huge. It's the team that you surround yourself with. I don't think you can, I mean, there's different ways to do things, especially with technology. Now you can get discovered on YouTube. So I guess, kind of you've done things yourself, but it's the people that you surround yourself with. And how hard they work and belief they have got to like believe in what you're doing. Really not just you know, taking you on because so and so said you're going to be the next big deal or whatever. And I'm not applying that to like anything that's happened with my team or anything in the past but yeah, I think it's a lot of things. Luck timing, your team. Your Passion moving ahead. No, you're gonna get knocked down and got to get back up.
Thomas Mooney 39:24
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The, the the perseverance aspect. Yeah, I should. I should have mentioned that too. Because like, one of my big examples for for like songwriters around here and people I talk with is, you know, like, he just because you Yeah, like Buddy Holly. He had everything out by the time he was 22 when he passed away, or like, you know, Taylor Swift she's, she blew up as a teenager and there's so many of those examples. Like, I don't know if people realize how Often like somebody is is already older, like, I think by the time like George Strait became quote unquote George Strait You know, he was already in his late 20s 30s you know, like one of my favorite examples is my one of my favorite all time songwriters, Terry Allen, he put out the record luck on everything at 35. So like there's, there's still time for you to, to make something that is going to be cherished for for a long time or you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it's a and also like, I would say, like, being nice can go a long way. can be like incredibly good. You have to be like so super Uber talented to be an asshole, I guess.
Ashley Ray 40:54
Yeah. And I've seen by Lori McKenna said at humble and kind, like, it just this business will humble the fuck out of you. That shouldn't be like a bumper sticker. Yeah, kindness. And, I mean, that goes for anything in the world, I think. But yeah, there are, there is kind of that. I don't know the word to describe it. But you know, where you see people only choosing like, red m&ms or green m&ms for their writer and yeah, you can't. Can't do that. Like, you work too closely with people and there's people that come back around 10 years later when and if you were a dick, then are they gonna want to put you on a tour or help you or, you know, cheer you on? Probably not?
Thomas Mooney 41:53
Yeah. Yeah, it's even though like this industry is massive. It's this town's still still too small for us to not run into each other kind of thing. You mentioned Lori obviously, like you've you've written songs with her and you've she's such a I guess like you know, especially these last five years or so has been such a major force in in country music and really broken out as a you know, a songwriters I hate that term to the songwriter songwriter but like you know, obviously she's gotten like so many cuts that are massive and that have gotten praise and both from like the public and critically I guess like we were working with her riding with her what is what is that like when you sit down with Lori McKenna to write a song
Ashley Ray 42:51
like you're sitting down with a god
she's just
listen Laurie has been speaking of kind, she's the the kindness woman kindness heart. So when you I flew up to Massachusetts, I was like, 18 years old The first time I got to write with her and I loved her. I discovered her cuz somebody was like, hey, this woman you love Patty Griffin. This woman is kind of in the Patty Griffin vein. So I I got this record called bitter town. And I mean, I was driving around in my red Eclipse in college just Blair and bitter town, like, just couldn't put it down and just related so much to like, you can hear it in her voice the story like you can hear the housewife like it's that's not just like a team helped build that and put it out in the world. Like Yeah, you'll be the housewife Songwriter of country music like that's truly who she is. So I the first time I one of the first times I get on a plane, let alone like a car picks me up drives me to stoke Massachusetts. I'm gonna knock on her door and and the first thing she asked me was, are you hungry? Honey, do like I can make you a sandwich. I was just, I was like, Okay, I'm okay. Like, I was so anxious and so scared. And you know, it was surreal. I couldn't believe what's happening. And so I was like, Sure. So she made Liz Rose was there too and who I adore. And we ate a sandwich there and in wave Liz rose and Lori McKenna and ended up writing four songs. You know, but but sitting across from her is like experiencing true brilliance like she is meant to do this. Her words. First of all, it's She's just now getting recognized. She's been writing songs like, by herself, like humble and kind for a very, very long time. And I hope that maybe someday those songs that I was that she played me early on will get heard cuz Yeah, I mean Same thing with her she's she was back and forth from her home in Massachusetts to Nashville for years and years upon years writing, God only knows how many songs before you know, Tim and faith kind of like it was actually face first. Before they before anybody Vinci went on Oprah. Oprah will help you speed the process up with just a hair.
Thomas Mooney 45:52
Yeah, you know, I think my favorite quality is of Laurie's songwriting is that she's she captures like the passing of time. Probably like better than anyone I've ever heard. Like, in just like a line or like two lines or whatever. And like, you can just hear, I guess, like you're caught up on all those years. And you're like, hit with how many they are like how long something's been happening in an instant. And it will be heavy. And it'll be just like, Oh my gosh, like I don't know, like sometimes I feel like I don't know you'd like see the the sand coming out of the, the sand? What do they call it? I guess like the, you know, I'm talking about like, hourglass. Yeah, the hourglass. I don't know why it was blinking or blinking. Yeah, like, you just feel all that come out. And like any songs of hers, like just the the passing of time and I don't know, like how she, she does it.
Ashley Ray 46:58
She was just, I mean, the one of the most honest human beings I have ever been in. But just, she's just so honest, I think that's where her brilliance comes from is just and being able to have the ability to to. I mean, she's a poet, she's a good storyteller. She's a writer, she's just the ability to put those words together to string along these most beautiful thing and times and poetry that you that we've felt, and to be able to say it in such a way where it's like, so universal.
Thomas Mooney 47:42
Yeah, one of the things also that I, I don't know if there's been I'm sure there's other examples of this. But one thing that I really like how she does is she'll, instead of like naming someone specifically, she just labels them as what they are. And I feel like that does. It may it comes down on like, how you have to explain who this person is. For starters, yeah, so like, but it I don't know, like, I'm not really I guess, like, if you go back and look at like somebody like the gambler, right? That is but like, you don't necessarily think of that as like, labeling someone as the burden the rifle or like the fixer. Or, you know, I don't know, I feel like
Ashley Ray 48:31
she does both man. She does that like, and then she does that. The song where she said, You should have given my name to my writing should have given my name to my sister, Marie. And that don't mean a thing to you, but it does to me. It's just like, oh my god, like, that's so the line is, you should have given my name to my sister. Or she should have given your name to my sister Marie, and that doesn't mean a thing to you, but it does to me. Yeah, it's just she's unstopped like she can do it all. She's just one of the best writers and humans ever will ever know. Um,
Thomas Mooney 49:20
Now obviously, I'm assuming that as time goes by, it becomes your nerves and like have our all like settle down as as, as the time goes by writing with Laurie but to us like still like in these in these situations where you're co writing with someone who that you admire, but are like, you know, I've written these giant songs. Do you is there I feel like I would space out at points and like, be to like, oh my god I'm writing with or do you like how do you like I guess shut that down and like, focus on what's happening as far as like the actual writing
Ashley Ray 50:01
I think may be the initial I'm trying to think of the of this, the initial anxiety of wanting to come in, you know, we wrote a song with Sean and I wrote a song with Karen Fairchild for a Little Big Town cut it on their last album. And I'd never met with Karen. I knew her just from like passing backstage areas on like, tours and, or a specific tour. But I think the initial, for me, the initial anxiety is like, okay, I want to bring in something. So that something that is so powerful, or an idea that I think, you know, they're going to love. So I guess maybe calming the nerves is like focusing on the music, focusing on like, what you're bringing into right with them. And then when you get in there I mean, somebody's like, Laurie just makes you feel like complete home. And Karen is just like the coolest laid back like, just, they just there's so many good people in this music industry that are like ready to just help and lend a hand and so I guess getting in there, you don't really think about it. And then I think like later on, at some point, it's different, but for me, like, later on that I'm like, Oh, shit. That happened. Like we it probably is probably like hearing. Yeah, definitely hearing Laurie or Karen or Wade Bowen saying something that you wrote with them. Like words that like, that's where it's like, Okay, well,
cool. This this or Oh, cool.
Thomas Mooney 52:00
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned Wade. Like, obviously Wait, is he went to school here in Lubbock. And I've known wait for a while you guys wrote that song grindstone for for his record with Randy. I really love this new record by them like that. I don't know. I felt like they're, they've really captured something that was like, not being done. Even though it was like kind of like, in a way, like kind of obvious, like, Hey, we need this kind of record. We're, I guess, where did that song come from? What was like that initial seed of rhinestone.
Ashley Ray 52:46
First off, I would like to say, Wade is my brother from another mother he has constantly routed for like, just helped me. Just he's so kind you know that anyone that knows him? those notes that. So the idea for rhinestoned came from another text one that I absolutely love. Ryan Beaver. And are you familiar with Ryan?
Thomas Mooney 53:13
Yeah, I For starters, I that our ex record, I think is like in 15 years, people are gonna go Hey, do you remember this record, this record is actually really, really, really great. And I've been kind of like pounding that drum for like the last since it's been released, basically, like, I just, I love the, just like, the sonic qualities of that record is just so I don't know, like, just so strong. And you just feel like that. I don't like the darkness of it. But also like there's like this, like really rich, velvety aspect of that entire record that I really like.
Ashley Ray 53:53
Yeah, he's his voice. I mean, it's he's just so talented. I write with him a lot. So, so he and I, I think our publishers had the idea of us flying up to write with Lori together. And so it was like, Okay, yeah, let's do it. And so we went up there wrote, I think it was the first day I must have been the first idea will leave her had told me before that he was like, I have this idea called rhinestones. And I was like shit, that's brilliant. Like, oh my god. And so I jotted down like a few things and kind of was like mulling it over. And then he said it in the room that day. And Laurie was just like, Oh my God love it. And so we wrote it and it was being passed around for, I think, a TV show and and kind of a big way and And then they kind of it was this thing where it was like shit or get off the pot like they didn't. They were like, it's still on hold. But you know, we don't know when we're gonna record it and this and that. And so, but and when Wade and Randy asked for it, I was like, I don't know where it is where it's like sitting. And it ended up coming off hold. And I was like, cut it. I mean, at that point, it's just like, if they were so passionate about it, that and I know them personally, both so well, and so does Beaver. And actually Laurie too. So it was just like, a no brainer. They and they've been, they've, they're just like the best. They've thanked us all three of us so many times for letting them cut. And I'm like, Are you kidding? This is where it belongs. It's insane. You guys did? It's just so happens to be my favorite song on the record. Yeah.
But I'm kidding.
But it's Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 56:01
You know, like you're talking about, like, the whole thing. That is probably something someone probably needs to write like, an article about, like the the holding a song and like that process. Because, like, there are songs that I guess are probably in like purgatory of just being on hold. And I'm sure like, with anybody you've had, like, these experiences, like you just talking about, like, Is it like, Please do something with it? Or let it go? or?
Unknown Speaker 56:31
Yeah, cuz after
Thomas Mooney 56:32
you've kind of like, put in a little bit of a weird spot, because you're also like, it'd be great if you would cut it. But like, also, if you're if you're not like, I don't want to, like offend you by telling you to let go of it. But you know, that entire the politics of it, I
Ashley Ray 56:47
guess. Yeah, I mean, and I never believed that, like, the artist doesn't love the song. I don't, they're not always just like holding it just to hold it. Right. You know, I bet they always have every intention and cutting it. But, you know, whatever happens, for some reason, you know, they hold it for so long. And then there are artists that kind of are a little bit notorious for, like, if it goes on hold with them, you're like, this might not happen. And then, and then there are other artists where, you know, you're like, Oh, this this this. We got a good chance that maybe getting this cut because this person doesn't really hold songs. Yeah, the whole thing is don't ask my grandfather Popo about the holding song. He got so mad. There was an artist. That I don't know if I should say the name or not. But that was like performing a song for like years on the road and was making a record and so Popo was really holding on to that. And they didn't. He didn't end up getting the song and snap ups will never get over that.
Thomas Mooney 58:13
Yeah.
That's really funny. Like, I there's nothing like the the, the wrath of like a grandfather. When he's like, something's happened to his grandkids or something.
Unknown Speaker 58:32
Oh, yeah.
Ashley Ray 58:34
He's like, I love burn every album that that person's ever made. He's
Thomas Mooney 58:44
one of the things I was wanting to ask you about. Because I feel like there's like the the the CO writing part. There's such a romanticized thing that happens with just songwriting in general, but with CO writing and with, you know, getting cuts were obviously like the songs that are on this record. You had the intentions of cutting, you're cutting them yourself, these were going to be actually re songs. But when it comes to a song that you're, I guess, like where you're, you know, or do you know, when it's a song that you just kind of like, I'm, I'm probably not going to cut it, but hopefully this fits in the box for whatever this kind of artists are the you've given them saying, What's that process with that? Like, where do you the mindset, I guess, what do you kind of go to and do you do write differently for that?
Ashley Ray 59:40
Oh, totally. Yeah, um, that's a great question. Um, yeah, cuz I do I write a lot with other songwriters and artists when I'm not really writing for my project. You know, for instance, right now, there are certain writers that I go in a room with And you kind of have to think ahead like, Okay, my records done let's maybe focus on writing if we don't have an artist in the room let's maybe focus on just writing the best song we possibly can but not making it you know super personal for me it's a very clear difference between if I'm walking into a room and writing for myself I'm usually if I'm doing that I'm usually want to be with someone that a I've written with before I feel their vibe. And that I'm comfortable enough writing for me with of course, there's, you know, I write for BMG, Nashville, incredible publishing company. And my plugger. Courtney is really good at like, setting up like, the intentional writes like, okay, you're writing with Brian beaver today. And, you know, of course, we always get in and try to write the best song we possibly can. But we're both artists. We're both songwriters, we both would love cuts. So we kind of get in there and No, okay. Brian's not really making a record right now. A Ray's not really making a record right now. So let's try to write something for, you know, I never get in there and go, let's write for this person like that, to never can do that. And some people are so good at it. But I just tried to get in there and say, okay, you're not writing for your record. We're not writing for my record, let's just write the best song we can. And that way our, our people can pitch and you know, we had a chance of getting a cut.
Thomas Mooney 1:02:01
Yeah, I felt like if I was in that situation, it would like I could never name anyone specifically either, because it'd be like, I feel like I would just say George Strait every time are
Unknown Speaker 1:02:14
those cuts? Yeah,
Ashley Ray 1:02:15
that's definitely one you want to end up on that.
Thomas Mooney 1:02:21
This episode is in part brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas, while blue light is still closed due to the pandemic, there is a way to help a support blue light, and B, get a sense of that normalcy by visiting blue light Lubbock comm clicking on the merge tab, and getting some koozies a vast array of T shirts and caps, and yes, even a blue light flag. While it is such a bummer, that live music is still on hold right now. I'm telling you, by getting some blue light, live merge, we're gonna feel better, it just feels better wearing a T shirt and ballcap and helping support your favorite bar. Again, that's blue light lubbock.com, click on the merge tab, get some merge. All right, back to the episode. Talk with other songwriters about that. And again, I think it's like a little bit of like the romanticized aspect of, or maybe not wanting to go that route. And so they kind of all say, Well, I always approach the same way. And I just I feel like there's no way that that would could be true. I mean, obviously, for some people, it probably is, but I don't know, like it feels like you would have to you would approach it a little bit differently just because of how it just, if you had that knowledge, it has to have had a little effect on what your the process is. So
Ashley Ray 1:03:53
yeah, I mean, it's a little bit of a moving target if you're if you're writing with writing for somebody because, you know, they send out tip sheets where it's, it's like such and such as looking for an up tempo, something summer song. And they may have already cut their up tempo summer song, and so you're writing for this one specific song, but you don't know, you know, I just I think writing the best song The Best Song always will find its home or a lot of times it's it just if you write the best song, it'll just go to an artist you don't even know like, but yeah, yeah, plus, it's just being a writer, you have to write, like, going in a room. I've gotten to like, feel it, I've got to write it and like, you know, I'd rather go in a room. I always say this, I'd rather go in a room and sit down with someone and not finish a song but get like two or three insane ideas that were so stoked. To write, and then get back the next week or next whenever and have something that we're like, excited to write about.
Thomas Mooney 1:05:09
Yeah, yeah. Obviously like, there's this especially like down here in Texas for some reason people think that what's happening in Nashville is, you know, just the devil's work. Like if you'd like people were putting like the songs together like in lab coats and it's, you know, it's a sterile environment and like having like that's, you realize like all these guys from Texas go up to Nashville for starters. I don't know why like you're like, it's, it's not a they're not creating Frankenstein's monster as far as like, this song needs this, this, this and this. And now granted, like a lot of songs will do sound like that at the end of the day where you're like, Man, this is a like, you kind of set up tempo summer. Well, from there, you kind of like branch off. And you kind of know what usually goes along with that. I don't know if I want to go on that tangent. But I was wanting to like, ask him out the How is like the pandemic affected? Co writing is it is a lot of it is there like this weird strangeness to writing, like on a zoom call or anything like that, or?
Ashley Ray 1:06:25
Yeah, there is an I wish there wasn't what there is. For me, again, I can't speak for everyone. It's hard, because for me like writing, I feel like it's so intimate. And the can the connection. First of all, sometimes the connection is shit, I tried to write and distract to write. When I was in Kansas, and my mom lives out, like over this, like, we joke like, it's the only Hill in Kansas. But she lives like down in a valley in the country. And so, you know, it worked out one day, and then the next it didn't. So that connection. First of all, it's kind of it's a little bit of a struggle sometimes. But the real connection where you're you're sitting across from somebody and you're hearing, you know, the chords that right there that they're picking out like the realness that honestly of being like in a room and creating something with somebody is not it's a little harder on zoom. Because there's something that happens when you're when you're staring into a camera, and you're having to wait for that delay, you see their mouth moving. It's just a little bit. It's challenging for me. I have been doing it, but it's a little challenging. So I would say that during quarantine, I've spent most of my time gathering ideas leading, finding those core big ideas that I am, like, ready to take to my next sessions. And yeah, I mean, there could be another year of zoom writing, so I probably should get a little bit more comfortable with it. I'm hoping, hoping not.
Thomas Mooney 1:08:32
Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Like, it feels like there's It feels like there's some things that just have to be done in person a lot of times and yeah, like, or at least for specific people like it for me, I've like this podcast, I when I first started it, it was all in person. And I would that's because there's just something else with when you're doing good in person, you're able to like read that other person a little bit better, all that kind of thing. And obviously, I've adapted but like, at the end of the day, too. I'm doing a podcast, I'm not writing a song about something. I don't know. There's also probably like the technical issues of like, like he said, like, of the seeing them play, but then maybe you guys aren't on the same page just because of that aspect of beat where maybe you're not hearing the guitar, right because of the connection or whatever the case is, you know?
Ashley Ray 1:09:35
Yeah, yeah, it's um, but again, at the end of the day, we're writing songs, and I really can't complain. I'm still able to do my job. You know, I waited. Again, I waited tables for a really long time and lost after losing a couple record deals and after losing my publishing deal, and I feel for those people so, so much right now. Because, you know, we just went into phase two again, which still allows restaurants to be open at half capacity. But I have so many chef friends and so many servers and bartending friends that that are just like, you know, I've been baking bread for all of them. I've got, I got a sourdough starter from one of my best friends. And I've just liked him baking bread for him. I'm like, I can't help you. I don't know what to do. I can I can just make bread for you. Yeah, it's just yeah, at the end of the day, and I can't complain about the zoom issues. Because I mean, there's people that are having a rougher time than than I am.
Thomas Mooney 1:10:55
Yeah, for starters. Yeah. Like, it's one of those things where I think whatever you love, like you're, you, you find a way to nitpick at, regardless of what it is, yeah, you find something to complain about, but to Yeah, like the, the restaurants been open at like 50%, or just certain businesses being closed, or all that kind of stuff. I guess, like, what, what that's really done, like, I'm not really come from a any kind of background, working at a restaurant or anything like that. But with all this, I've realized, like, you know, just the, the margins of success, especially in the restaurant business are very, very thin and is working is being open at 50%. Like really? gonna be able to do it or like, Is it one of those things where like, you know what I mean? Like, there's all these questions that are valid questions to ask on, that I don't have the answers for people probably in the industry have better answers for that. And but it is like, are these our is running at 50%? or, in some cases, like you've seen people run at 25%? Is that feasible is that and not just with the restaurants, but with other places of business? You know, it's just a I don't know that. That's another tangent, tangent we could go off on but about, like, it feels like there's like these different sets of rules for everybody. And maybe, I don't know, like, where we should be kind of playing by the same rules? I don't know.
Ashley Ray 1:12:41
Yeah, it's, it's, uh, I agree. It's just, it's a weird time. And I hope, half capacity helps them. But most of all, I hope that everybody, you know, is respectful enough to remain safe and wear their masks when they go out. And I get that you can't eat with a mask on. But yeah, I hope I hope that it works. But yeah, it does seem like there's different sets of rules. And that's a little Oh, yeah. That's a whole other tangent. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 1:13:23
Yeah, I mean, it's been really, really great talking with you about all this stuff right here.
Ashley Ray 1:13:27
Yeah, you too. Yeah. I feel like we could go on.
Thomas Mooney 1:13:31
Yeah. Yeah, I'll go in and break it off right here for for the podcast since we're coming up on noon here. One thing I wanted to mention, though, is or ask you about was and I've already I'm gonna like cut it right there. But is what it what has it been like? where like, all these bars downtown are like, acting like nothing happened? Because like, there's been a lot of stuff, I guess, on Facebook of, you know, these Broadway bars of having just, you know, regular shows and stuff. Has that been frustrating down there?
Ashley Ray 1:14:09
Oh, it's infuriating. It makes me so angry. Because Listen, there's so many people I just want to tell these people. There are so many people that want to get back out on you know, and in the world and do what they do. I want to get back on stage I want to be you know, writing in rooms again, and if you're going to go out and be irresponsible, and gather in crowds, not wear masks to go drink at a bar and be silly. I just all of the bad words. It's not cool. It's not Cool wear mask. I mean, and also, it's not that hard to stay home most of the time. Like, it's, I mean, it's kind of made me love going to the grocery store, because that's like one of the only places that I go to now and I'm like, cool. I'm getting out of the house. This is really sad. Yeah, um, but yeah, not cool. People out there, going to bars and not wearing masks, and then complaining when you get fined or you get shut down. Like, sorry, the world is happening the way it's happening right now. And so we can all get back out and get more, you know, get back to where we were, or some sort of version of it, then we all got to be irresponsible. Like that's just
Thomas Mooney 1:15:57
Yeah, the, the,
I guess like the
you'll often hurt hear other people in other countries. Talk about like, the ugly American. And yeah, I've always kind of been like, Well, you know, we're not all like that, you know, it's not like, but we are like, definitely living up to that, that stereotype of just being super fucking selfish about Yeah, and yeah,
Ashley Ray 1:16:25
but I want to go party with my friends. And so and so invited me to do this, and I still want to take my vacation. Yeah, we all do.
Thomas Mooney 1:16:34
Yeah, it sounds like that's like some things as an adult are hard to do like, baby. And wearing a mask is literally like what like one of the easier things to do. And like not trying to go out all the damn time and just be responsible. I don't know. Like, it's I'm super frustrated by all this as well, just because it's just the hypocrisy and all this, you know, it's they're infringing on my rights.
Like, dude,
Ashley Ray 1:17:08
and I am they think that well, we will. That's a real big tangent. We'll stop recording and I'll call you back. But, yeah, it's just, I saw something. I don't know. I don't remember who who said it. But it was brilliant. It was like, if you could take medicine right now that it made you five times
more.
I wasn't I'm gonna have to find it. I think I screenshotted it somewhere but it makes you five times more like immune to not getting Coronavirus. would you do it? dot dot dot. It's called a mask. Like it's five times likely to not get it like it's called a mask. It's not hard. It's like putting on sunglasses or grabbing your keys before you walk out the door. It's just like, get used to it right now. It's, it's what's happening. And it's gonna keep happening if you don't wear your fucking mask.
Thomas Mooney 1:18:14
My, my grandmother, she's in the medical field and she has been at the store and like calling people out like, warranty desk. Like why aren't you wearing a mask like, and especially what she was surprised by she's gone to the grocery store. She's telling me and seeing other people in scrubs. And like without a mask and it's like you work in like you work either in a hospital or a doctor's office or something and you're not wearing a mask? Like what? So grandma
Ashley Ray 1:18:46
good um,
Thomas Mooney 1:18:47
I know.
I have stopped recording. I wanted to ask you though to like what what artists was it that was playing you're playing the song for in concert? meatloaf. Oh, really? You know, he went to Lubbock Christian here. I know that Why? Yeah. For like a semester or something like that. reason I know that was because he was he has like a one of these little 24 hour like breakfast house. We don't have Waffle House here. So like, there's like this 24 hour breakfast place here. And I remember walking in one time and there being a framed photo of meatloaf. And it was because he was like loving Christian alum or something like on the bottom even I think he had only gone for like a semester or something like that. So it was I don't know.
Ashley Ray 1:19:40
I mean, I'm no longer mad at meatloaf, but
Thomas Mooney 1:19:46
that is really funny though. Like the your grandpa just being like.
Ashley Ray 1:19:52
Yeah, I mean,
Thomas Mooney 1:19:53
I ever learned to meet
Ashley Ray 1:19:56
people that are more, you know, raised sent that that he doesn't know, their names that it would be a huge deal and probably would be more money made with this person but he knew meatloaf. And, and that one really pissed him off.
Thomas Mooney 1:20:16
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, like if there maybe that's like something I can I'll try and pitch to somebody the I don't know if anyone would let me even in on that kind of thing but like the I think there is something really fascinating about the the hold. Like what songs are like just like kind of like I like I said like in that little purgatory and like, the like you said, like, oh, if this person holds it, it's has a good chance of being cut. And if this person holds it? Probably not, you know?
Ashley Ray 1:20:49
Yeah. Yeah, there's been several times where publishers been like this person put it on, hold on. I'm like, cool. This doesn't make me I'm not jumping for joy. And they're like, I'm like, we should just pitch it somewhere else. And they're like, it's on hold. It can't do that. And I'm like, Yeah, but we Yeah, it's, it sucks. Because like, I don't go out and say, let's hold this. Yeah, it's just Yeah, it is. But and also back in. It's Nashville's, always a little bit behind on music on like the industry part. So I wouldn't say that, like holds really happen as much anymore as like, they did when I was just moved here. But they, I'm sure a hole back in the day meant this person is going to record it.
Thomas Mooney 1:21:44
Yeah.
Ashley Ray 1:21:45
Yeah. You know, oh,
Thomas Mooney 1:21:48
I did a podcast with Clint black the other day. And he was talking about how, because like, he wrote basically everything on any of his records from the like, his debut up to, I don't know, like just a couple records back. But he was saying how I guess like he had like a, an an anecdote about Reba talking about how she would listen to, you know, upwards. And I don't know if this number is even valid, like is even able to be done, but like with listen to up to like 1000 demos for for a record and how he was like, I never want to do something like that. So I don't know, like if how it was back into, like, Did Reba like, who would like how would you go through and sift through all those kinds of songs. I feel like there's a lot of like, five second listens. If that's the case.
Ashley Ray 1:22:47
Yeah. Yeah, that happens too. Which makes me that's more of the lab coat thing. Where I mean, they'll listen to a verse and the chorus and be like, turn this off. Yeah, I'm like, I'm writing story songs here. Shit doesn't happen till the second. Keep listening.
Thomas Mooney 1:23:11
Yeah, and this isn't a Desolation Row by Bob Dylan. It's not like
yeah, anyways. Yeah, it's been really great talking to you.
Ashley Ray 1:23:29
Yeah, I'd love to do.
Thomas Mooney 1:23:31
That's it for Episode 111. With Ashley Ray. Be sure to check out Ashley's record, the incredible Paul lean. At the end of this week. Check out episode sponsors desert door and the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Thanks for listening.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai