095: Ruthie Collins

On Episode 095, I am joined by singer-songwriter Ruthie Collins. Collins recently released the calm, serene, and desert-swept Cold Comfort. On the 11-track record, Collins captures the stark juxtaposition of the desert. At times, she's full of sunny and bright chorus lines and sun-kissed pedal steel swells. At others, Collins leaves us with the lonesome chill of an isolated desert night. All the while, Collins writes with a sense of vulnerability about heartbreak, tiring relationships, and moments of unsureness. At its' best, Cold Comfort glows with cosmic country ambiance and Collins finding strength during her most trying of times.

This episode's presenting partner is Smith Iron & Design and Wicker's Mesquite Smoked Jalapeno Jelly.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:03

Everyone, welcome to Episode 95 of new slang. I'm your host music journalist Thomas Mooney, and today I'm joined by singer songwriter Ruthie Collins. Ruthie released her latest record this past April. And despite the name cold comfort is a warm and serene Listen, there's a sense of tranquility in her voice, even while she's singing about heart ache or break. And that's really kind of the bedrock of this album, that vulnerability in her songwriting during this time, and she blends it really well with these desert swept swells. One of the things I've always loved about the desert is how sunsets and sunrises are just a little bit longer out here. A lot of the songs on cold comfort, they feel like they occupy those moments during the day. Those are often the times when you're most alone. You're thinking about what you're going to be doing that day, or what has happened that day. And you also kind of save this time during the day for those difficult conversations with others. And more times than not like those difficult conversations with yourself. I feel like I talked about this a lot. But I always love when our record knows what it is and just kind of goes through that. You don't always have to try and be everything all the time. And Ruthie, she doesn't try and spread cold comfort, too thin by trying to check all the boxes. There's comfort in it being a record of desert swap ballads and some cosmic country on Beyonds some really nice sunny and bright courses. And then of course Ruth is raw honesty. As always, I'm a proponent of starting off records at track one. But if you need a cold comfort sample, I'm a big fan of the song Wish you were here. And I really enjoyed speaking with Ruthie about this record about songwriting. But before we get on to the interview, please subscribe the new slang on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get podcasts. Leave a five star review while you're there. And if you have a second, go ahead and write a review. Tell me who I should be trying to get on the podcast. Follow me on Twitter and on Instagram at underscore Newsline. Go get the podcast page a like while you're at it. And if you enjoy new slang, share the podcast with friends and family. And of course a simple retweet or share does so much. All right here is Ruthie Collins. Let's just go ahead and start off with you released this record. Just I guess it's been a just about a month now.

Ruthie Collins 2:28

Yeah, April 3 since Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 2:32

Well, I'm I'm assuming you didn't anticipate releasing it at the very like in the midst of a pandemic?

Ruthie Collins 2:39

Yes. My psychic premonition powers don't actually take me very far. So no, I did not think I would be releasing my my record from my mother's piano in the house I grew up in but it was a unique experience for sure.

Thomas Mooney 2:55

Yeah, so like was that like something where? Obviously, at that point, you were like the the gears are already too far. They're really far. Did you as far as like touring schedule and all that kind of stuff, though? Did you do that? Did you guys just put it on pause and like are hoping to move it to the fall or the spring?

Ruthie Collins 3:16

Yeah, I'm like so many other people. A few of them have been rescheduled for the fall. And a lot of them are just still on hold. So we're kind of just waiting and seeing and basically, you know, I've just focused all of my energy on online shows for the foreseeable future, and just ways to make those interesting and extra special for fans, since we can't actually get out there and see him in person.

Thomas Mooney 3:38

I guess like that's obviously with this whole thing. It's made people adapt. Yeah, um, what what do you like? What's, at what point did you go, oh, let's try this out. With a live show. We're streaming shows kind of thing.

Ruthie Collins 3:52

Yeah, I started hopping on live immediately. And it took me a minute, because I think, you know, I was dealing with the kind of mourning the spring of 2020. At first, you know, so it took me a second to get over that emotionally. Because at first I felt like everyone was just going on live and the pressure to just like hustle, hustle through. And just kind of like shut your emotions down was a little too much for me. So at first I was a little resistant. But then I figured out that my mom's you know, practical dial up speed internet was not going to be working for me. So I mean, I went through the rigors of upgrading all of her systems and all her bills. She lives on a farm and I came up to here to quarantine with her. And so just getting the technology set for that. And so then once I had like good internet, which is like the first thing I just realized, hey, this market just became so saturated. Everyone in their mom is online all day long. I mean, I could tell a huge difference even in numbers. From the first week I did a live to the second week, it was almost half and it was and then I looked on Instagram and it was like, there were like 50 people on live at that exact same point. So I was like, Okay, I'm gonna have to do something different. I'm I have to find a way to make these unique. So I sort of dove deep into the technology hole, which is not something I ever really wanted to do, but you know, adapt, pivot. And so I learned OBS open Broadcast System. And crowdcast is the majority of how I've been doing my shows, so that, you know, I can set up intro videos, I can pipe in pre recorded video to keep people's attentions, I can zoom in guests. And it just looks a lot better. You can stream in HD and have high quality audio that way, but it's been like 14 hour days, no days off, like so much technology overload your brain is spinning, and it's just insane. So I'm just trying to figure out a way to make it to stand out essentially, because it's just Yeah, the market is so oversaturated at the moment. You probably weren't expecting like,

Thomas Mooney 5:48

Oh, no, no. No, that's the thing, though, is like, yeah, there has been just so many shows. So many. I guess, like we're Yeah, you'd go on and there'd be so many people, I guess, look getting that trying to get that primetime, like 8pm or 9pm hour, you know, oh, yeah. It's like, I don't know, maybe maybe some morning shows or something like some afternoon shows for some of you

Ruthie Collins 6:12

have, yeah, I do a lot of happy hours. And then also trying to figure out what time to go live, when you have people listening from all over the world is so kind of, you know, can be tricky, too, because you need to make it like not so crazy late for the UK people but then you kind of lose your Pacific Coast people, you know, so it's interesting. We did a live show last night, I had people you know, watching from Australia, and it was 830 in the morning, and it was 630 Eastern Time and 1130 in the UK. So that's hard to but that's one of the things I found about crowdcast. It's cool as people get sent the link of the show, and then they can watch it at any point that they want. You know they can they can watch that link at any point.

Thomas Mooney 6:54

Well, one of the things I guess that's been really interesting with all this has been the obviously, when you play a live show, there's that crowd interaction, this crowd reaction is so much different. How is I guess like, have you had you did that? Has that been surprising for you? As far as you know, like you finish a song and there's no applause? There's no one talking. There's no I'm Beyonce in the Yeah. There's a lot more reading, obviously. Oh,

Ruthie Collins 7:24

yeah. It's really awkward. It's really awkward at first, and I was talking to a friend of mine, Nikita Carmen. And she was like, she said it out loud. And I felt so much better after I heard her say it. She was like, why our lives so exhausting, you know, and I was like, thank you for saying that. She's like you and I play for our sets all the time. You know, we've been doing it for years, but a half hour Instagram Live makes me want to sleep for eight hours, you know, and I was like, thank you for saying that. I feel the same way. You know, and I think it's it's literally you lose that exchange of energy. You know, there's no energy coming back to you. So you're just putting it out there and not getting anything back in. It's it's actually exhausting. The that's why Instagram Live like going live with a friend or zooming in other guests makes it so much better, because at least they can you know, last night I had Nikita actually and Natalie Sobel on with me, and we did a tribute, a Taylor Swift tribute show just for fun, because I'm also learning that theme shows are really good for getting repeat customers to come back. So you can't play the same show every night if you have the same people, you know. And it was so nice, because after the song, I hopped right to the screen where it's all three of us. So we could clap for each other. And it was like, Oh my god, I haven't heard anyone clap for me. Or I haven't clapped for someone, like, into what? This is so much. So it's a lot better if you have someone on with you. And if you don't Yeah, it's just it's awkward. You feel kind of foolish, but you get used to it.

Thomas Mooney 8:50

Yeah, I think it's what's been kind of funny is like watching people after they finish a song. And then they like, lean in. And like reading the comments. And then like, there's like that, just that

Ruthie Collins 9:02

delay. Yeah. And then like, 20 seconds later, they're like, Oh, thank you.

Thomas Mooney 9:06

Yeah. Or they're answering your question or something, you know, yeah, it's just I guess it's so much easier than dealing with, you know, bullies or anybody like just yelling in the crowd, though. So,

Ruthie Collins 9:22

yeah, there's, there's less hecklers for sure. Although I guess I did have a heckler in one of my Instagram lives. A few weeks ago, my sister told me and I was like, Oh, that's how you know you've made it. You got the hecklers on your life. Like what are you even doing here?

Thomas Mooney 9:34

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The hecklers on on a live show that means that you they searched out for for that specific show.

Ruthie Collins 9:43

Yeah. Nice.

Thomas Mooney 9:48

You mentioned Taylor Swift theme. I'm a big I feel like I'm a I'm a It feels like with I guess what most guys most guys are not fans of Taylor Swift. So I come across as like a Taylor's Left apologist a lot of ways. Yeah. What is like your favorite not to put you on the spot? Like what's your favorite? We'll call it like era of Taylor Swift. What's your favorite?

Ruthie Collins 10:09

Or? I guess I would have to be well, so we asked this question last night. I was like, if you could only have one Taylor record, what would it be? And I'm a toss up between 1989 and reputation, I guess I would, but if I had to pick a desert island, it would probably be reputation. Um, so I would say 1989 was probably the record where I went like, oh, you're not just like a female singer songwriter that I really respected. think is great. You like might be the songwriter of our century. Like, I really mean that. I mean, when I really started digging in her songwriting that is what I respect so much about her. She's an actual genius. So But yeah, I think reputation for me, it's just in her music. It's just fun. And my music is so serious. Sometimes it's just nice to listen to something that's just like fun, but still dramatic. You know, I love the drama of the Taylor show. So I'm a big fan, not ashamed.

Thomas Mooney 11:00

The that's what I think what. There's, there's a couple of aspects. It's the, she's probably been like, the most influential Songwriter of our generation, simply because, like, if you talk with a lot of female artists, it's like, oh, she, you know, when she was coming up as a, like, when she started, like, when she was like, 1516 as a teen. Yeah, it made a whole lot of people pick up the guitar and say, Hey, I can sing my own songs. Hey, I, I'm like on that line of like, the the drama aspects of it, you know, like, obviously, there's this very tabloid ish of like, the, you know, who's her boyfriend? Is this like, relationship real? Is this like, all that kind of stuff? But yeah, for the songs. If they didn't have that aspect? Like, you wouldn't be really listening because, like, what were How would you be relating to those songs? You know what I mean?

Ruthie Collins 11:57

That's true. That's true. Yeah, go ahead. I just, I don't think it's so interesting to she's, she's just an interesting case study, because people loved to hate Taylor Swift back in the day. I mean, they loved to hate her. And it was always just like, What is? So I guess the thing was, like, people didn't think she had a good voice. But since when is that the reason that we respected musician? You know what I mean? Like, what, Since when is that the number one reason that we go, you are an artist that, like decades from now people will be talking about because you are an exceptional singer. It's like, sure. But that, to me, that's kind of like the vehicle that the art is come out of, you know, and I'm like, but no one would like, despite the fact that Bob Dylan didn't write amazing songs. He might not be technically the best singer of all time, but it was always so interesting. Me I was like, but the songs guys, but the songs, you know, right. So I just think she's so interesting. And then you know, like, once my Too Cool For School sister started liking Taylor Swift. I was like, Oh, boy, everyone. Now it's like, now it's like cool to like, or,

Thomas Mooney 13:00

yeah, no, it was a weird thing was when Ryan Adams covered. And then it was like this. Like, all of a sudden, she got all this street cred, just simply based off the media. I like, as far as him like covering the record. Uh huh. I don't know. I don't I think it was kind of a genuine thing from him. Yeah. Because he had done this kind of thing before where he had covered it never came out. But like he had covered the strokes first record as like a bluegrass record. And that's kind of like one of those like, you know, rumored mythological demos or something out there. ever find it? Yeah. But like, so I think it originally when he cuz I think it just was like one song he did originally. Yeah. And so I think it was like a from a place of like actual.

Ruthie Collins 13:53

You don't think she paid him to do this. But you're saying

Thomas Mooney 13:55

no, I don't think so. But I think that like what was so weird about that, though, was the the media going? You know what, actually these songs are good.

Unknown Speaker 14:04

Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 14:07

Yeah, it was just such a weird, I

Ruthie Collins 14:09

think she's so smart. That that's why I'm like, you know, I'm not saying she did. It's like that's, I just think she's a smart businesswoman. And that would be a very smart move to make. I think it worked well in her favor. But yeah, I'm, you know, I was always a big Ryan Adams fan. I hate that. I have to say I was always a but yeah, so that was a really cool record. I really enjoyed that.

Thomas Mooney 14:32

Yeah. There is this. It's interesting. You say that about? Taylor, because there's this article that came out a couple years back and I think it was on I think it's on the ringer.com and it's about I guess where they had taken like 10 of their staff members and ask them like when was the what was the moment that you you started realizing that like Taylor's Just really good at marketing herself, and like some of this stuff, maybe immediate, like, a fake thing and then go back to the whole, you know, is she actually dating this person? Or is it? She's wanting to be in People magazine or something, you know?

Ruthie Collins 15:17

Right.

Thomas Mooney 15:18

So

Ruthie Collins 15:20

it's where people saying?

Thomas Mooney 15:22

well, they had different answers. Like one of them was like when she started dating. What's his name? I was like, No, no, no. what's crazy is like, I think it was like Jaylen Hall was one of the answers. Like

Ruthie Collins 15:38

when she was in Nashville thing, right? I feel like I remember seeing a picture of her Nashville, like the whole food or something.

Thomas Mooney 15:44

Yeah, there's like when she started I don't know like there was there was a lot of really great answers, but like it was just a great like pink piece, I guess. And yeah. Going back to the tailor, though, like as far as writing goes, I one of my friends pointed out like the the line from back to December is like one of the great lines. And I feel like it's so underrated last night.

Ruthie Collins 16:12

We're talking about this.

Thomas Mooney 16:13

It's the that line. It turns out freedom Ain't nothing but missing you. Yeah, that line right. There is like maybe the best line she's had in

Ruthie Collins 16:21

really good and so true. So true. Taylor.

Thomas Mooney 16:28

Taylor specific. podcast. Yeah. No. Oh,

Ruthie Collins 16:31

yeah. Well, I'll send you the link from the show last night. You'll enjoy it if you're a Taylor guy.

Thomas Mooney 16:36

Yeah, that's a What have you thought about like her new her latest album?

Ruthie Collins 16:42

I really liked it. It wasn't like wasn't quite as like monumental for me is the last two but I really liked it. I thoroughly enjoy it love Miss Americana. It didn't Yeah, for some reason. It didn't like change my life as much. But I, I love it. I think it's great.

Thomas Mooney 17:01

One of the things about that record that I was just let down by was the the Dixie Chicks collaboration, because I just thought like, they were going to be so much bigger, so much bigger, an integral, and an integral part of that song. I thought they were going to have an actual like, I don't know, contribute. They would contribute more than just

Ruthie Collins 17:23

yeah, song. Yeah, I gotta say for that one. I feel like, I'm not really up with all of the Taylor gossip. Like, if you have the heat on the phone, she would know everything and all the things so I'm, I'm sad to say I didn't even get that sound like so I listened to it. And I was like, This isn't a great song to me. Like it was the it was a week or song in the record. And then when I was talking to my friends about I was like, What's up with this song? Because like, the Dixie Chicks are on it. But I wouldn't have known and like, it's just it seems kind of like the weak link and if somebody's sick, like what's going on, and they were like, Oh, my mom's sick. Ruth. I was like, Oh, sorry. Sorry. Like, I didn't even know. So that made more sense. I felt bad. But yeah, I thought I thought we would have seen something, you know, a little a little more up to Taylor par and Dixie Chicks par for that song. I think that was a little bit of like, oh, okay, but I get it. You get emotionally attached to songs. You know, and they make projects because they mean something to you. And that's that's special too.

Thomas Mooney 18:23

Yeah. Yeah, the is, you know, it's weird. I guess thing that's had been happening like the last 10 years has been that. Like, featured artists are like the like the primary artist releasing a song and then it says like, featuring insert name here. But then like, if, if this was like 15 years ago, you would have known that that person was on that song unless you looked at the liner notes.

Ruthie Collins 18:49

Right for the Background Vocal feature. Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 18:52

I don't know. I guess it's a that's a marketing ploy. But like, That's such a weird like, oh, why is this person mentioned on this? I mentioned in the article I don't know where the winner if you've ever put during this episode is sponsored by Smith, iron and design. It's owned and operated by one of my good friends Aaron Smith, and his dad sonny. As the name implies, Smith iron in design specializes in creating custom metal and woodwork. The vast array of metal signs that are perfect wall decor that will tie our room together. That is on everything from welcome signs, the family crests, flags and Texas cutouts. They have a series of these metal reads that are perfect for your front door and you're able to change them out depending on the season. Are you a sports fan? Well, there's nothing better than having a giant logo of your team on the wall of your dinner office. When it comes to signage. The possibilities are really endless. What you should really do though, is head over to Smith Arne and Design comm to get a look at their vast portfolio, that Smith, iron and design comm I'll throw a link into the show notes as well. They don't just do signs either. Some of the smaller items are custom bottle openers and key chains. Then they also have bookshelves, TV stands, nightstands and fire pits. You know, it was about a year ago, Aaron built me a custom shelf, I needed something new to store some of my vinyl and everything I'd come across. Either the shelves weren't big enough for LPs, or it looked too bland or cheaply made, or, to be perfectly honest, too expensive. So I wound up talking with Erin. And about a week later, I was able to pick up this custom shelf unit that's just been amazing. It's incredibly sturdy, has a bit of a rustic feel. In my opinion, one of the best parts was just having so much control in the process. You can get them as tall as you want with the shelves at the perfect depth and length. Again, for me, this was for storing vinyl, so they had to be a certain height in depth. I've been thinking about getting a custom bookshelf companion piece soon as well. Now, for the most part, they primarily serve the Lubbock area and the South Plains. But for some of their smaller pieces. They're able to ship nationwide as well. Again, Smith iron and design calm. Now back to the show. Yeah, you mentioned you know you're in in New York with your mother. What was it like growing up in, in a in a state I guess that isn't, you know, known for its quote unquote, country music.

Ruthie Collins 21:40

Oh, wow. If you could see where I am right now, you'd be like, that really doesn't look like what I was thinking. So I'm in a little town called for donia New York, which is about an hour between Buffalo and Erie, Pennsylvania and it is extremely rural. So it's right in Lake Erie. My dad lives in Cassadaga, which is even more rural. But like it country's huge here. It's like it's hunting and fishing for wheeling. Or I'm sorry, instead of like four wheeling, it's snowmobiling. It's kind of like what I what I say about it to kind of make people understand that it is it is pretty darn rural and very country. I was exposed to country music for the first time when I was in middle school and fell in love with it. But that's kind of the thing here. It's it's farmlands and it's it's not New York City by any means I can drive to Nashville, and about the same time that I can drive to New York City from my mom's house. So it's pretty, pretty crazy. Once you get you're in Texas. So big states are wild. But yeah, it's pretty. It's just it's not what you would expect a new year New York people always be like, you got a banjo singer from New York. And I was like, Well, yeah, but it's not what you think. So it's pretty pretty normal, I'd say.

Thomas Mooney 22:49

Yeah. I you had to remind people that like the band recorded all these great records up in like upper New York. So

Ruthie Collins 22:57

yeah, that's cool. I don't think I knew that. Where did they record them?

Thomas Mooney 23:01

Oh, like Woodstock. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like, we're, I'm not a geography guy as far as New York.

Ruthie Collins 23:11

I'm not a geography guy at all. So I would be like, and that's probably seven hours. in what direction? No clue. But yeah, that's really cool. Turns out there's some some like really nice studio in this in my town. A girl who Airbnb searched her house two doors down for my dad is like, Oh, yeah, Vanessa Carlton stayed here and like, keen. And I was like, wait, wait, what, like Flaming Lips like record here? And I'm like, Where's this person? And can I come over and hang out with you and see your studio? Because I thought that I was the only musician in like, 100 mile radius at this point. But turns out there's quite a scene up here. Yeah, I wonder how much of that has to do with people making like destination records. You know, like, it's got to be 100% that because I think most of them come up in the wintertime. So they're probably like, oh, snow on the lake, and it'll be cozy. And you know, which if it gets cold, sometimes it snows way more than you'd like. But I think that would be really fun, actually.

Thomas Mooney 24:11

Yeah, how was like cold comfort recorded was that because it fills in a lot of ways like a, if you had told me if he told me it was a destination record where you were out in the desert? I could definitely see that being the case. How much would you do this record? And how long did it did it take to how long were you y'all and I guess the recording

Ruthie Collins 24:34

process of it? Yeah. So it wasn't a destination record, but in a way it was as well. So I recorded it at curb which I've recorded my first full length record and my first EP there as well the curb studios in Nashville. So in that way, it wasn't but at the same time, both of my other projects were pieced together over the years. And that's just kind of the way that it always went for me and then when the references Bored get excited about something that it would be like, oh, throw together the rest of the project, you know? And it was kind of always just like, Yes, sir. You know, whatever, whatever you can do to get something out. But this time I sort of bucked the system. And I got a little fed up, and I just booked studio time and to see what would happen, and then no one really caught wind of it. So we went into the studio with a band for three days. And then we recorded the band first and second time we did vocals, the third day, we did straight, we did strings and vocals the third day. And then I think the fourth and fifth day we did like overdubs and background vocals. So basically, this is the only record I've ever done that we did all in the same time, on purpose, pick the songs on purpose, like the way it should be really, you know, in most cases, and yeah, I was just lucky that I didn't get dropped. Because about halfway through the week, my CEO caught wind of what was going on and was like, What are you doing? I was like, Well, you know, I asked what I was supposed to be doing while I was waiting for you to release the single and you said, writing and recording, and I've been writing, so I figured it was time to do some recording. I was like, oh my god. So, you know, I've never done anything like that in my life. But then they decided they loved the record. So it worked out. But so it was great, because I got to kind of do what I wanted. And there was no a&r guy involved until after the whole thing was made, which is different. There's no no one from the label at all, except for the engineers. So it's really wild. I produced it with my guitar player, because I you know, I knew what I wanted, I knew the sound I wanted. And I, you know, Wes Harley produced it with me. And he and I hired a band that was basically people that loved the same records that we loved. So we knew that we wouldn't be fighting over tones, or trying to get them to play something differently than they would for every other person that they play for a town. You know, we didn't want to hurt the same studio musicians that were playing on everything. And it so it sounds different. And it was just a wild experience. I've never done anything like it. And I hope to make all of my records that way. But I love that you think it sounded like made out in the desert? That's perfect. In my mind. It was

Thomas Mooney 27:12

Yeah, that's, you mentioned the whole like, getting guys getting studio musicians who aren't on everyone else's record. I feel like sometimes that happens where especially like in a in smaller music scenes like right now, like I live in Lubbock. So there's a pretty good music scene here. But what ends up happening, I feel every few years is that everyone uses the same guitarists. And the same, even just like the same drummer and bass guy. Newman, they do their things their way. And everything. But then also at the same time sometimes, like, all of a sudden there's like 10 Records, that all sound the same, because obviously they're using the same people in the same instruments in the same studio. Yeah, it's I think it's so important to go out and like have your own people and tell them so.

Ruthie Collins 28:08

And I think it's so cool that the people that I've played on the record are like my first calls to go on the road as well, you know, because we have this relationship, but it's not like, Oh, well, I got this crazy guitar player, you know who studio rate is insane? And I could never get him to go out on the road. It's like, no, I got the perfect guy that I want. And, like those guys are all touring musicians as well. And it's just really fun. You get to kind of keep it in the family that way.

Thomas Mooney 28:33

Right? Did you I guess when you know, you mentioned the whole like, where it felt like so many, like your previous work, felt really cut and paste. As far as making a record goes, does that feel like you're like in a phase or like in a fog or like, just a, like a Groundhog's Day kind of experience? You don't really know what's going to happen?

Ruthie Collins 29:01

Yeah, I think a lot of record labels, just I'm not saying it's a fault of theirs. But sometimes it just becomes about business and not necessarily about the creation of art. And they just throw stuff at a wall a lot of the times and just see what sticks. And then they do the same thing over and over and over if the sticks, you know, and I think in my life and musically I was just sort of being a people pleaser for a really long time. And I was just had this idea that I was just so lucky just to be doing music at all, you know, and I let that belief kind of just like let me be guided into what someone else thought would work. And when you're on a major label. You know, it's pretty normal, I think for the most commercial stuff to kind of rise to the top. And that's what happened with me and it was really honestly just like we were releasing whatever I could do that was getting the label excited or to notice me at all, you know, because it was just a tough climate and country music for women. So Anything that I could do that they were excited about, I was like, okay, that must be the right thing, you know. And then it's interesting when, when they want to, like, went away or stopped paying attention to me long enough for me to kind of catch up and go, Well, this is what I would do if I could do anything I wanted. So I should just do that, you know, that's the thing that I felt has had the most success for me. And, you know, I think that people like it more than things I've ever done before when I was actually trying to please people. So that's kind of an interesting twist of it as well. But yeah, it's been it's been different. It's a lot of it's just growing up. And for me, too, it was just like, I couldn't sing. I had just gone through too much in my life, that I couldn't sing shit that I felt like I didn't care about anymore. You know, like, I couldn't sing songs that weren't real or things. I like, my life had just gotten too serious. And I wanted to sing about that stuff. And not just like, whatever was gonna get a 45 year old male PD and Arkansas excited and want to play my music on Country radio, you know? So it was it was a turn for sure.

Thomas Mooney 31:03

Yeah, it? I guess like one of the things that I always constantly worried about if I was making a record or things that I would worry about is that are we taking so long to make this record that the songs that are on here, I'm not going to feel as good about you know, whenever I have to play them live and actually promote the record, because just processes so long. With with this record, you obviously you mentioned you guys went in there, cut the record, the songs are a little bit more from a they rose to the top for you as far as like, these are important songs.

Ruthie Collins 31:45

Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 31:47

Like, I guess like it felt like and I mentioned a minute ago about this feeling very desert swept or like Laurel Canyon vibes that

Ruthie Collins 31:56

Oh, thank you.

Thomas Mooney 31:58

Was it something like, where you just feel more comfortable when you just make at least a step in a direction, even if it's, even if it had been the wrong direction, you just have to kind of like you wanted to have that control that that power?

Ruthie Collins 32:15

Well, I think that I learned that I was never going to be successful if I was doing something that wasn't authentic to begin with. And once I realized that, or learned that lesson, or started to believe that, then I really had no choice, but to do the thing that I really wanted to do. So I don't know that I felt powerful when I was doing it. It just felt like bright, I guess it felt brave, but mostly scary brief, you know, not like, wow, I'm on top of the world. I'm doing it. So, so strong, you know, I was like, Oh, God, what's gonna happen, you know, kind of like the top of the roller coaster, and then slowly started evening off and I was like, Okay, I don't think my world's gonna end because I broke the rules. It doesn't seem like I'm even really gonna get in trouble, which is great. You know, so I was definitely rewarded in that, in that way, but yeah, I just felt more comfortable. It just, yeah, it was just it. You know, I don't know. It's kind of like, all of a sudden, I felt like I was wearing clothes that fit me or something. You know, I didn't feel like I had like a costume on. I didn't feel like I had to be like a country Barbie doll anymore. That was nice. But yeah, just I don't know that, that I went into it trying to go like Laurel Canyon or like 70s country or not even know what it sounds like. 90s sometimes to me, it just was like, This is what the song needs to be. And I hired the people that you know, loved Patty Griffin records and loved Kathleen Edwards records and loved Ryan Adams records so that, you know, when I made a reference, they would get it right away. And so, yeah, I just, that's just kind of the way that I ended up sounding and I'm thrilled about that. But it wasn't necessarily intentional.

Thomas Mooney 34:02

Yeah, you know, it's the one thing I've always wondered is when you're cutting a wreck is I've tried to ask this ask people this too before and they kind of were like, no, not really, I don't know about but you you're like you said that in the studio when you're like you have this sound in your mind. Trying to get out that you want this to be a certain thing. How often do you go Yeah, can you make that a little bit more Patty Griffin ish on that song as far as you know, insert song title here that record. How often does that happen?

Ruthie Collins 34:40

I feel like that happens all the time. Like, but that might be me. I'm super, like super picky super involved. You know, I'll be singing guitar lines. And, you know, they everyone like I think the players get really mad at me. Well, for instance, it was actually Joshua Tree. We were cutting that and The guitar player played the solo during the during the instrumental section of Joshua Tree and we, my producers and engineers were in the, you know, the main controller. And then Adam Lumiere finished this guitar solo and my presort committee said, Oh, my god, that was beautiful. And I was like, it was it was stunning, not too bad and gave us it. And he just looked at me, and he's like, What are you talking about? I was like, you know, I don't do guitar solos. And he's like, but that was the perfect guitar solo. And I was like, it was, if this song needed a guitar solo, it would be perfect. And instead, we, we wrote him a lot of line, you know, that went back and forth between baritone guitar and the strings. And I was like, and he knew that about me, he's like, Oh, you know, like, because I don't like solos, I like parts. I like melodies I don't like you're never gonna hear like, I mean, cold comfort got a little bit there for me where, you know, the guitar and the lap steel are playing back and forth. And that would almost be considered a, you know, big solo. And that's, that's probably as close as I'll ever get. But I'm super picky. I know what I want. The other. The other complaint I hear most from the people I work with is that that I like chop everything out, you know, just like simple, simple, more simple, more simple, more simple. But for me, it's just seems like, I don't know, I think someone told me once, it was like, you have to act like as a musician, you have $100 a day to spend, and every note that you play cost you $1. So only play the notes that really, really need to be there. And I feel like when you think about it that way, like everything just becomes a little more precious. So. But yeah, so I would be like, Oh, can you do the drum? can, you know, make the drum sound a little more like glossy and I could just smile or something. And you'd be like, oh, like this, you know. So? Yeah, we make those references all the time. And we send out files and folders of songs to listen to and did massive amounts of pre production and rehearsals. So we we knew we'd A lot of it, you know, going in, we knew what we were going to do.

Thomas Mooney 36:57

Yeah, I always felt like if I was a record producer, that's how I would talk. I don't know if like the people I've talked with, they were just wanting to be a little bit more technical, you know, or something. But like, because I don't speak that language at all. I don't, you know, can you I don't even know what the An example would be. So like, I feel like a you have to I would have to just use solid examples.

Ruthie Collins 37:21

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, I went to a pretty nerdy music school where they like, taught you how to sing drum parts for drummer, but and then I felt like ashamed about not being good at that for so long. And you and I would say that to like, Oh, we just don't speak drums or whatever. And it's like, you don't have to do like, no drummer wants to, like, sit there and sing a snare drum. You know, it's like, I think the referencing songs is great. You know, it's great.

Thomas Mooney 37:48

Right? Yeah, it's interesting. You're, you know, you said, you like these more melody fills versus, like guitar solos. But when you said that, like, I guess what I thought of instantly was Eric Clapton's Laila, by cow like, obviously, that has like such a massive guitar solo. But it's also like split where like the last half, you're more like last half of Laila, as far as like, the log instrumental part.

Ruthie Collins 38:19

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's purposeful, you know, but you know, what's really interesting that I've learned about myself, it doesn't make any sense. If it's an electric guitar noodling, I'm like, Oh, stop, please. If it's a fiddle, I'm fine with it. If it's adobo playing off, play all the notes you don't like that doesn't make any sense to me, but for some reason, it's something about electronic instruments noodling. And I'm like, Oh, please, too much. But if it's an acoustic instrument, noodling, I'm like, Oh, no, it's Irish music cuz I'm happy. any sense? But I'm very particular about it. I don't know why.

Thomas Mooney 38:53

Yeah, I think like the, I don't know, like you just saying, like, you're more on the the melody part. It makes a lot more sense. Now, when I'm thinking about this record, because a lot of this album feels very there's a mood to a record, and that this record just has like that. I was thinking about how there's, I guess, with a melody and like, just instrumental parts like that. They create melody better probably, as far as like a an atmosphere a an element like that. I felt like this record, there's a lot of, I guess, like you balancing between dark and light, there's a lot of like, dark elements, and then there's, like lighter elements. Was that part of the when you were wanting to go in going? This is part of the core of this record that going back and forth the balance of that?

Ruthie Collins 39:49

It was um, I think also it was just like, going back to that just going I guess this is who I am. This is what is happening in my life. These are real things that are happening. To me, and it doesn't feel authentic to, to not dive into that. So it was just kind of like, well, it's almost like in a business you niche down, you know, and I realized like, it's okay if I'm the girl who sings like introspective sad songs like, I've started to realize that that's what people wanted to hear from me, just because you hear like, uptempo positive all the time. And that's all anybody wants you to write or sing in Nashville. Um, I started realizing, well, that's people don't want to hear me sing that shows, I don't get requests to sing kelsea ballerini songs. That's not what they want for me, you know. And so when it was like, it's okay to do that, then I just sort of gave myself permission to fill this record up with whatever. And not to think like, I have to balance it, you know, I have to have this many up tempos, because if I want this ballot on there, I have to have for up tempos, you know, it's like, No, just like, cut the songs that you feel like are important to you in your life right now. And don't worry if they're too sad, or all sad, you know, I think there's, there's 11 songs in the record. And I joke that there's 10 sad ones and one angry one, you know, but all of that sadness, let me get to the light in my life, you know, let me get to the hope. But I had to kind of like feel those emotions, all the way to get to that place. So hopefully, there's some light on the record as well.

Thomas Mooney 41:22

Yeah. I guess like, you know, you mentioned that these songs are like, from like, a five year period or so. What was there was what like, what's like the song that ended up like on the cutting room floor, then? Is there like a batch of those that you felt like? Yeah, these could have been on here? What were those? Yeah.

Ruthie Collins 41:43

Oh, gosh, um, I think I set my producer like 30. So there's quite a few that didn't from from this era. And then there's Joshua Tree I wrote the week before we went to the studio. And I set the workshop, the workshop to my producer, like two or three days before we went into the studio. And then when he sent me his list, that he thought these are the, these are the 11, I think we should cut and I was like, Joshua Tree, and he's like, yes, but you have to stop writing songs now, like nothing else. So I mean, there's a song from, I think, eight years ago on that record, and then there's a song that I wrote a week before he went into the studio. But so yeah, some some of them got cut last minute, actually.

Thomas Mooney 42:30

You know, a lot of these records, or a lot of these songs, a lot of records, a lot of these songs, they you know, they are dealing with very tough situations in your life as a songwriter like how do you find that line between writing it down, and, you know, going to be performing it, recording it, and maybe like holding, do you hold anything back?

Ruthie Collins 43:01

Think that's just me, though, my friends would tell you, I'm crazy. In that regard. I just, I got that's another one of the things that on this record, I just said, like, just, if we're really going to be ourselves here, one of my things about my personality is that I don't really do small talk, I can, but I don't really give a shit about it. You know, it's like, I'm the person in the meet and greet line that people spill their entire life story to within 30 seconds of meeting me and I do as well, you know, I can be an overshare. But I just decided to lean into that and let it be something to celebrate. And so in the hopes that that would give listeners the freedom to feel like they had a, like a safe place to be themselves and just be the whole version of themselves, whether that's like, you know, too vulnerable, or too sensitive, or an overshare, or whatever it is in the middle of their feeling is true to them like and to be okay with that. So, my friends joke that I'll say anything on a microphone, and it's almost true. So with these songs, it was just like, I wrote them as I was feeling them. None of these were songs that I sat down to write, like, on a Wednesday with this title in mind with the exception of Joshua Tree. So, you know, they're, they're all songs that wrote that I wrote while the situations were happening, so, but it honestly never even occurred to me, like, Is this too much? Do I want to let people in this much? It never even occurred to me it was just like, well, we're gonna we're gonna be ourselves here. Like, this is who we are. And I think the guides kind of gotten comfortable with that at this point. My last record was called get drunk and cry. So I was already the deep drunk and cry girl, so you can't you know, get much more emotional or vulnerable from there, although I guess I did.

Thomas Mooney 44:51

Yeah, well, you know, there's like that line from a white stripe song, the denial twist where he says, make sure to never do it with a stranger. Because it'll tell everyone in the world that I feel like there's that's very applicable for a lot of songwriters. But I always wonder where that line is, because obviously, you can I guess maybe you can damage a lot of relationships, not even with with partners, but with family and friends, if, if you if they feel like you've gone too far,

Ruthie Collins 45:26

I yeah, and I know that there are some people in this world that would say I have, um, and I know some people who would say, who have told me that they had songs to write that they didn't write because it would have hurt their spouse's feelings. And maybe that's why I'm 36 and unwed, but, um, I just feel like my responsibility is to the song. And anyone that I'm ever with, has many caveats that they know by this point, that I'm going to do what's best for the song. That doesn't mean I'm not an amazing girlfriend, and very caring I am, but it's like, if you hear the song for me, you're gonna know, like, take this with a grain of salt. I was making this I was true to the moment as I was feeling, I don't always feel like this, but I'm never, I'm never gonna, I mean, maybe one day, if I have kids, and I have a fight with my kid, I'm not going to write a song about it, maybe that would be the line for me. But like, my relationships, they all know, like, this is this is me, this is my art, and I feel a responsibility to the art. Kind of sounds a little pretentious as I say it, but I feel like people understand I've, you know, but I have had some, you know, spouse, not spouses, but like ex girlfriends of people I wrote songs about not too happy about it, and, you know, write me letters and stuff. And I was like, Well, if you don't know that this is a song that is, you know, because songwriting is true, and it's authentic. But it's not always 100% authentic, you know what I mean? Like, a lot of the times I take, I take an emotion that I'm feeling in a moment, and then I blow it up as big as I can, right to make the best song that I can. So there's, there's songs on the record that like, you know, I had people be like, well, you wrote this, and this broke this up. And I was like, you should know by now, honey, that this song is not true. You know, like, there's moments of truth in it. But it's not. This is a moment. And I feel like most people in the music community get that. And then I remember that I have to, like, remind people who aren't in the music industry, like, No, no, this is just, this isn't necessarily how I'm going to feel for the rest of my life. Like, just because you write a song about being in love with the person doesn't mean in 15 years, you're still going to be in love with that person. It's, you know, it's just a snapshot of where you were in that moment when you wrote the song.

Thomas Mooney 47:43

Absolutely, I that's what I was going to actually bring up. It's like, I bet they don't hate the love songs, or like, the songs that like, I appreciate you so much. You know,

Ruthie Collins 47:55

they love those. But it's so funny. Like, I'll have a, I wrote a song about a guy a while back, and I sent it to him. And it was like about miscommunication and how, like, frustrating that was, and I sent him this dog. And he was like, Who's that about? And I was like, oh my god. It's just too much. So yeah, it's, it's always one of those things. When you start a new relationship with someone, you have to kind of sit them down and go like, Okay, I'm gonna play this really sweet song, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm like, trying to marry you. Okay, you know, like, it was just a nice song. And, you know, but yeah, you hope they get it. But, you know, I've never really had anyone write songs about me. I've had like, maybe one, one or two songs written about me. So I'm like, I want to know what that's like. Because there's lots of guys out there that I've sent work tapes to and that might hope this doesn't freak you out.

Thomas Mooney 48:49

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Ruthie Collins 51:07

Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 51:08

I find that an interesting aspect of art. And I guess, like the, the consumption of art, you know, like, what, how do you split that off between as a fan like, how do you? You know what I mean? Like, it's, that's an interesting line, too. I feel that is, I guess, like, some people just never realize, you know, it's like, Yeah,

Ruthie Collins 51:35

well, I think I remember having a songwriter friend say to me, like, maybe five or six years ago, he said, You always want to make sure that you're the good guy, you know, so he was only cutting songs that he felt like he was portrayed as the good guy. And then I remember thinking, like, that's really cool. But I'm not doing that, you know, like, that's not what I'm doing now, because I'll put a hat on, you know, because I don't want to think that I always have to be the hero. Because I'm not I'm a human. And how is that relatable? You know, what I mean? Like, I don't want my listeners to think that they always have to be the hero, because that's just not. This is not like, you know, sometimes you are the bad guy for a second, you know, but as long as you're trying to do the right thing, and do what's best for your people, and try to love people as best as you can. Like, we're all going to make errors of judgment. And but you know, I'm, I'm, you know, I wrote a song called bad woman, but I'm not a bad woman, you know, but it's, yeah, I think it's like acting sometimes. It's like, it's good to put those different hats on and take them off at the end of the day. And I think that anyone who's only singing songs from one human perspective is probably having a hard time taking their costume off, you know? Yeah, I think that would be hard. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 52:49

It is. That is very, it's, I wish people would realize that, because, like, the good guy, the the good. I'm the hero of the song, you know? Because I guess he looked at all your favorite artists with like, these rose colored glasses. They are always the in the right. And, you know, a lot of times No, like, you guys are like, misinterpreting this song. This person is actually showing you all the reasons why they're bad. Or like in that moment, or whatever. I've just as an example, BJ Barnum of American aquarium, he's got that song, I hope he breaks your heart. And that happened in a very intense moment. And of course, he's had to sing it for 1015 years now. But I guess like when he, he's, I've talked to him about this, where when he wrote that, it was this incredible you know, intense feeling, this feeling of man, I really hope like you have your life ruined by this guy, the way you ruin my life. But like, in over the years, he's realized, like, he's not the good guy in that song. But like, the general fanbase will always like you, him. The narrator of that song as like the good guy. So he

Ruthie Collins 54:20

was heartbroken. He's the victim. And you know, that's, that's not necessarily a bad or good thing, either. You know, I'm really I'm really big on that. I do a lot of like, the self help self care stuff. I've like read all the books, do all the practices, and I'm really big on the whole like emotional ladder. And so in, in that instance, in that song like he was putting out blame, right, which is technically a negative, we would call that a negative feeling. But the thing about blame is, it's a couple steps higher up the ladder than depression. So he was actually doing the healthy thing to get himself up the ladder to, you know, anger, which is better than blame, you know, maybe and then like, maybe anger gets seated. The you know, like, greed or not grief, grief is way down. But it might get you to boredom eventually. Because you might get bored of blaming someone on board is way better than depression, because after board you can get to hope. And if you're hopeful you might be able to get to, like, happy and joyful and grateful one day, so it's like, we were all feeling feelings, and that's great, you know, so it's like, he wasn't necessarily being the bad guy there. He was just doing the thing that he needed to do to get through, like, all the levels to become like, over it. So that's really interesting. I like that I like I like when people take chances and, and write and make art from those places that are not so universally celebrated as you know, maybe good or moral. I think that's really interesting. Right?

Thomas Mooney 55:43

Yeah. Like we we always want the the outlaw outlaw country, right. So,

Ruthie Collins 55:48

yeah. Okay. And I guess that's true. It makes it makes people feel like that's who they are in that moment, too. You know, like, I've been wronged before. And here's a guy who's like saying it like this and yeah, like, I'm, I'm on your team, buddy. You know, it's interesting.

Thomas Mooney 56:01

Yeah. It's, I feel like we're all the the the person who, man I had that you think of the the clever, come back 30 minutes later. Oh, wait. And he thought of it like it within the moment, you know? I guess maybe, I, I've heard that, like, what he he was telling me that when he wrote that song, they were at a show, like, one of their shows, and that she showed up with this new guy. And after the show, ended, he went back to the green room and wrote like a very rough draft, like the end of that song, and then went back on stage and performed it. Oh, very much like still in the moment kind of feeling but anyway,

Ruthie Collins 56:43

amazing.

Thomas Mooney 56:45

Yeah, um, now, I feel like this is, I feel like I'm simplifying this too much. But like, how many of these songs do I when you were finished writing, since they were about these really dark and intense times? How much better Did you just feel getting them out on to paper?

Ruthie Collins 57:10

Well, it was, it was a dark, some of these were a darker time in my life. So I'm not gonna pretend like a lot of them weren't written it two in the morning after a bottle and a half of red wine. So I'm not sure that I did feel better right away. But I always feel better. What I've, what I've learned, though, is it's interesting when I write a song that I really love, especially like a sad one, that the emotion is, you know, like, maybe more emotionally charged. I tend to obsess over it and listen to the work tape like 100 times. And then I can get kind of stuck in the emotion. Which is sort of, I've figured out what to do with that yet. Like how to make that healthy, because I think it's important because when I write a song, and I can't stop listening to it, that usually means it's a good song, and that it's something that I need to release. But it's not necessarily like healthy for my heart to kind of dive in and like, feel those fields so much. So I don't know, I don't know that there are there are a lot of songs in this record that I did not feel better after I wrote them, because I didn't like write them and release them. Does that make sense? Like not release them to the world, but like, release the feelings and release the emotions and like breathe easier afterwards? Because I kind of let the song Take me down, if that makes sense. And I think, you know, hopefully, I'm older and wiser. And I know enough about my emotions to know when they'll just let it go and move on and do something else or take a nap and not obsess, you know. But yeah, this just was a period in my life where I hadn't really learned that yet. So I'm not sure that any of that made me feel bad. Right away, you know?

Thomas Mooney 58:59

Yeah. Well, I don't know. Like, I that's why I was saying like, I don't know if it better is the right word. Or if if you just feel like you, I don't know, like a little bit of a something off your chest or you know what I mean? Yeah,

Ruthie Collins 59:13

yeah, just or something like writing always feels that way. There's always a sense of accomplishment. You know, there's nothing. When I finish a good song, I'm just like, I can watch TV for an hour. You know, like, I'm good. I've expended what I was put on the earth to do again today, for what another time, you know, and now I can like, there's always that kind of thing. In me that's like, what am I gonna write my necks out? What am I gonna write and, and I write a lot. And I go through stages where I write a ton. So there's a week that goes by and I haven't written nice, I guess I get paranoid and I start to not feel like myself. And then, you know, my friends or relationships will be like, well just make it up. I'm like, I can't I don't do that anymore. You know, and I do that anymore. So it's interesting. Kind of controls me.

Thomas Mooney 1:00:01

Yeah. I definitely believe like there is this like writer's high, like after a song Scott have been done or that sense of accomplishment. I've seen that. Not even just like, I'm like, I'm not writing songs, but you wouldn't when I've finished something. Why don't you do kind of feel like this? Like? I don't know, like you do feel this a little bit of high but also at the same time, like this zap of energy.

Ruthie Collins 1:00:28

Oh, yeah, I can't even form sentences after a long, right.

Thomas Mooney 1:00:33

Yeah, what's like been like the not the like, necessarily the longest as far as over a lot of a long time. Because obviously, you do work on editing a song over the grows and stuff like that. But like what's like been like the longest time you've written a song in like one setting?

Ruthie Collins 1:00:56

Well, I guess it would be back in the day, when I was doing a lot of Nashville co writing stuff, we would get it loose. You know, you go in a ton. There, there's probably been a few days where I went home at five or six without a finished idea. And we would have to get together for another session. But that's not really how that's sort of like, not always, but I'd say 98% of the time. For me, that means that I'm not really like in the creative flow. And it's probably best to abort ship and come back when I've like aligned a little better with my creativity. Because normally, the songs that I ended up cutting come up pretty quick, like 15 minutes to an hour quick. Yeah, at least the majority of it, you know, I might do on a bridge for a couple days while I'm like driving around or doing other things, but the majority of songs written pretty fast.

Thomas Mooney 1:01:48

Yeah. How much of you have you been doing during this like downtime?

Ruthie Collins 1:01:54

Writing wise, writing music wise, yeah. Almost nothing. But that doesn't mean that I haven't been working. So I I've written maybe three songs since I got to my mom's house two months ago, which is like, very concerning. But I've been spending so much time learning this technology for these online shows. I'm also learning logic and how to like audio engineer my own stuff. So that's taken up a lot of time. And I'm actually working on a book right now that I'm trying to spend a little bit of time writing every day. So I haven't really been focused on songwriting too much, but I'm still just giving myself a break. And I'm in the middle a portion of my life where I am writing, when I'm inspired to write I have so many songs that I wrote in 2019, that I'm still obsessed with that I feel like my next record is already going to be really hard to pare down. So I'm not like stressed about, I guess I'm just really lucky when I go through my stages, I write so much that I can kind of give myself a break if I'm not in a super busy, you know, season of writing.

Thomas Mooney 1:02:59

Yeah, writing a book, like is that has that proven to be incredibly just way different than songwriting? Or is it? More like what's the what's the major differences? What's the Is it like, even like, when you sit down to do it? are you setting up differently? Obviously, you don't have a guitar, but like you are in front of the piano or something, but like, what is the is that a different mindset going in?

Ruthie Collins 1:03:23

It's a totally different mindset for me. And it's not anything that I ever thought that I would do. Although if you'd asked me when I was like five or six years old, what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would always say like a creative writer, which is really funny. But um, I just have lived with this great adventure in the last year, year and a half of my life that I just decided for myself, I wanted to write it down, you know, so that like later in life, I could read it back. And because so much of my story in the last year and a half is like unbelievable, to even my own self sometimes. And it just seems like I wanted to remember it. And it felt like fun. And in my life right now I'm finding that when I follow passion projects, or relationships or whatever that just like light me up and seem like fun. Those are the ones I'm having success with. So I really don't know, as I'm, I don't really know what I'm doing. I just know that I'm having a really good time. And I'm 70 pages into a novel. And I just realized that if I write for six hours a day, it would be done in three months, and I certainly don't have six hours a day. Right? So, um, it might be a two parter. We'll see. But yeah, it's just it's really fun. I'm just having a good time with it. And I'm, I'm sick. I would say that it's it's difficult because my brain doesn't, right. I guess like writing poetry is so much more different, and so much more subjective. And I'm being hard on myself. And it's hard to know what good writing is, you know what I mean? And so for right now, I'm just kind of letting myself off the hook there. And I'm just trying to get the story down. And then I'll go back and read it and go like, Oh, no, maybe I should make this good. You But for right now I'm just trying to get get it all down on paper. And I've no idea what happens from there. It just felt like something I was supposed to do. So I'm doing it.

Thomas Mooney 1:05:08

Yeah, that's, I always think that like, sometimes, if, if I'm stuck on something, just getting it down the first that's like the, just do that. And then figure out all the, you know, the flowery language, if you will.

Ruthie Collins 1:05:27

That's the part that stresses me out, which I'm finding that's just like yours in the music industry, where I was worried about what other people were gonna think and worried about whether those people were gonna respect me as a musician. And it's the same thing. I'm like, oh, people are gonna read this and be like, she's not a very good writer. And I'm like, Who cares? a great story, man, you know? So yeah, it's but it's, it's interesting. It's different. And it's fulfilling, but very different.

Thomas Mooney 1:05:54

Yeah, it's, you said, like six hours a day. I don't know if I could sit down and write for six hours. That's,

Ruthie Collins 1:06:03

I know what I'm trying to do an hour a day. And recently, the past two weeks, my workload has been so intense that I'm like, there's no way. I think I wrote half an hour today. And that was like a huge accomplishment.

Thomas Mooney 1:06:15

Yeah, that's, uh, I don't know, that's really interesting. I've always thought that we sometimes break down artists, too much into, oh, you're a songwriter, you're a singer. You're a guitar player, you're, you know, you paint you write short stories, or whatever. And some, I think a lot of times artists don't necessarily view that as a, like, the breaks in between all those, like, I just do art. That's what I do. And right, if it means I paint or I sculpt on this, and write about it on this or whatever. That's just how it goes.

Ruthie Collins 1:06:55

It's just like, wherever the spirit is leading you that day. It's all art, right? Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 1:06:59

it's okay, so you're writing a book. I spoke with Haley Witters a few weeks back for a podcast and cheese painting. It's embarrassing right now to see these people. Try and find that other channel, though. of Yeah. Do you think like this is going to help you be a better songwriter?

Ruthie Collins 1:07:24

You know, I guess I would say, doing anything in life that I feel brings me joy and lights me up is going to make me a better songwriter. And right now that this is doing that. So I would say yes. Yeah, just because I feel like staying on your creativity is so much about making sure that you're like staying tuned into like the frequency of your purpose in life or your inner being or whatever you want to call it. And I know that whenever I'm doing that work, that's when I'm making my best start. So this is something that's lighting me up and bringing me joy, and that always helps me. So that's sort of a roundabout answer. But

Thomas Mooney 1:08:04

yes, yeah. I kind of figured I feel like that question, but yeah, it's been really great talking with you.

Ruthie Collins 1:08:14

So nice to talk to you too.

Thomas Mooney 1:08:20

Thanks for giving new slang Listen, be sure to check out cold comfort by Ruthie Collins. Check out episode sponsors wickers, jalapeno jelly, and Smith iron and design. Until next time,

Transcribed by https://otter.ai