089: Gabe Lee

On Episode 89, I'm joined by singer-songwriter Gabe Lee. In 2019, Lee made quite the statement with the ever-impressive debut of farmland, a 10-song collection of sparsely arranged and primarily acoustic introspective storytellers and wallflower commentary. Lee didn't waste any time between his debut and follow-up, Honky Tonk Hell. Released in early March, Honky Tonk Hell is a natural progressive step in Lee's career as an artist. It finds his songs fully fleshed out as full-band anthems, rocking ramblers, and barroom hustlers. Still, Lee and company preserve the proper space and attention around Lee's strength as a lyricist and storyteller. Lee naturally weaves intimate experiences and thoughts with timeless expressions and newly-minted phrases.

Lee and I talk about the making of farmland & Honky Tonk Hell, growing up in Nashville, his songwriting process, and how he's utilized his time during this quarantine.

This episode's presenting partner is The Blue Light Live and Smith Iron & Design.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:01

Welcome to Episode 89 of new slang. I am music journalist Thomas Mooney, your host and on this episode I am joined by Nashville born and raised singer songwriter Gabe Lee. I first came across Gabe Lee last year when I was sent his debut record farmland. It was an instant favorite of the year and one of the best debut records I've heard in quite some time. And what's kind of amazing and frankly surprising is, is that he didn't really waste any time between album releases. Earlier this March he released his second record honkytonk kale, much like farmland, least stellar use of old expressions and fresh phrasing, are right at the forefront of his songwriting. He's a gifted storyteller who shines a light on these characters that he's interacted with for a brief period of time. And it's not like he's telling their whole life story by any means, but rather just these brief little small vignettes that he's just plucked from their life. The major difference between farmland and Honky Tonk caldow is the sonic qualities. We talked about it a lot during the interview, but the obvious is that farmland is essentially an acoustic album and honkytonk Hill sees Lee just progressing forward as an artist he fully embraces a full band sound on the 11 tracks. And that obviously boosts the songs that were meant to be hunky talkers or country Ramblers and what have you. Anyway, gabes quickly become one of my favorite songwriters. And if you haven't checked out farmland or hockey town Cal just yet, I'd highly recommend you do so. Like always, if this is your first time listening to new slang, please subscribe. New slang is available on iTunes, Spotify, Google podcast Stitcher, and a lot of other platforms. Wherever you listen, please hit that subscribe button and also if you've been listening to new slang, go ahead hit that subscribe button if you haven't done so just yet. And then of course, wherever you found this episode of new slang, go ahead and hit that like or follow button as well. If you haven't listened to Monday's episode, be sure to check that out with Willie Braun of reckless Kelly. And yeah, I think that just about does it. Let's get on to the interview with Gabe Lee. Yeah, well, let's just go on the start with that is like the obviously the storm in Nashville this week or yesterday? Obviously shutting down everything due to the Coronavirus right before that the tornado just all of these kind of bad things happening in Nashville, like is it does it feel like you know, Old Testament style

Unknown Speaker 2:43

coming back shit,

Gabe Lee 2:44

man, I really hope it's not the Old Testament because if it is we're fucked. But uh, you know, I think when when these kinds of things all around, and you're getting, you know better every which way. It's really the true colors of people come out. And especially, you know, on social media now, people are quite vocal and willing to share and they're bored. They're sitting around, they're, they're ordinary and they need to, they need to emote somehow. So for the most part I stay at a stay at a lot of the political stuff but at the same time, you know, I feel like everyone else does and I really obviously wish that circumstances weren't like this but starting were starting back at the tornado I mean the the community was really was really admirable. Just an outpouring of support and love and really pretty incredible to see when because you know, this city having just blown up I guess and within the past 10 years really spiking its identity has always sort of been this tourist town and at least for you know during the spike I mean obviously it's Music City but that he got your you got your bachelor at barges and he got lower Broadway and that's sort of taken over the as a mask for for Nashville for outsiders, I think in a lot of ways. Then Then when this when something like this happens, you know, these True Colors gives people an opportunity to to change, I guess their their outward appearance and or at least show their their inner their inner person and they're in our good so honestly, the tornado. Again, I saw a lot of amazing, amazing outreach happening for that and it's still ongoing, but obviously with the thing with the the quarantine happening right after that. It puts another damper on things. And I know I know that. For me personally sitting around the house looking for something to entertain myself with from a daily day to day basis. I can Sit on myself pretty damn lucky. I know that just down the road and, you know, worlds away that there are, there are people who are going through a tough time, having a difficult time a bit all the time, not just not just during a pandemic, you know, there's, there's folks that are in need. And, and that kind of perspective, I try to try to, I guess, assess in a way that gravity of things all the time, folks are really trying to get back into the bars, you know, and play gigs. And just get out there and, and be with their friends again. And I and I am totally on board with that. But at the same time, I think it's important to be it's important to weigh these thoughts or weigh the situation, right, and be thinking like, why are we in this situation? And how can we how can we be better for it?

Thomas Mooney 5:46

Right? Yeah, the, it just, it seems that, I guess, like what's been so eye opening for me is realizing that just so many my friends need that constant human interaction, like I'm pretty fine with just being a homebody, you know, and just listening to music and reading and doing stuff on my own. I'm perfectly fine with with that. But then I realized just so many people, it's this is maddening to them is, is feeling in a way kind of useless.

Gabe Lee 6:21

And I and I also, that that resonates with me, as well, as someone who works, three or four odd jobs, side gigs, along with the music. Being you know, being or being in the house all day, is not it's not easy. It's not easy. And there's some people who I have a I have a, I like my living situation, I've got my dogs and my roommate and art show, like we're, we're good, I've got nothing to grab about. And, and I think the biggest thing you see some people that are like, I'm never gonna take live shows for granted again, or I'm never gonna take you know, my morning commute for granted ever again, stuff like that. And, and I'm over here like, man I I'm looking at I'm looking around at just like my my living space and being safe and having the resources to weather the storm. I'm like, I'm not I'm not gonna take any of this for granted. You know, like, I'm not gonna take for granted the fact that I wake up, like, in a safe place that I have, like, water, electricity, you know, except except this morning. So, so yeah, but we're, we had a, we had kind of our situationally for the music, after having just put a record out, probably the worst day of the year, and then sort of getting our tires slashed, before we could really hit the road. That was definitely disappointing. But, you know, I, I'm a grown up, like I understand the circumstances. And luckily, our Booker's and the venues that we've been talking to they, they're, they just want to help and, you know, we're all in the same kind of boat. So they want to make sure that we put we are able to reschedule and a lot of it's already already taking place. So I'm grateful for that as well. Yeah, I

Thomas Mooney 8:04

was gonna ask about that is because there's a lot of opinions right now about about releasing records, pushing back records, obviously, you put yours out just like, right, as this was happening, right? I guess, right. When we fell off the cliff. Was there any kind of like, oh, man, we should have pushed it back. Any thoughts like that? Or was it just kind of? Has it? Has it worked out well enough?

Gabe Lee 8:31

Yeah, I mean, the the way the release came together, it all it all went pretty, it all went as planned. And it went even better, I think, than expected, the actual, I would say, a week or two leading up to release, we were able to land several premieres that we really hadn't, that we had just been hoping for, you know, that wasn't in the bag. So that was really encouraging. We've got we got a little you got, we added to a Rolling Stone playlist, we got a feature on bluegrass situation and then billboard, so those kind of all those different and that and including all the other sort of small labels and music reviews and Hindi reviews that like yourself that like to support work that they just listened to on the daily. All of that together, we had a pretty great showing of it for the first you know, just for the first few singles and then ultimately the record drop. Now, we do we do wish we we do obviously wish we could be out on the road who is going to be it's gonna be a great little run. We're going to go through East Tennessee up into the tri cities in North Carolina, and then go up to Brooklyn and do some some promo with some with some distribution labels and stuff and some record shops, and then we're going to go to Texas this summer. So it all would have been really fun and it would have helped I think get our initial streams up. But at the same time there's you know, if you Get the other side of it. Folks are able to live with this record a little longer. Hopefully, maybe when we get back on the road. We'll we'll get a couple more tickets sold.

Thomas Mooney 10:07

Yeah, no, no the songs no singalong.

Gabe Lee 10:11

Yeah, right, exactly. That's See, that's the thing about this about the streaming. I mean, like, I told at this the other day, that, that we're not, we're not none of that none of this, none of the work that he and I are doing within with David Dorner, the producer is at least between at least for this for this part of the music for the for the Ghibli songs, it's, you know, it's not, it's not a summer hit. You know, it's, it's, it's made last. And it's a body of work, that will hopefully keep getting better as I as I progress and sing better and write better and just continue to be, you know, more integral part of the Nashville music scene. So that's, that's just the hope. And I think we succeeded that in this record, and it was a blast to cut. And the team that we have together for it, helping to market it, and distribute it is just incredible. So really, I really, I honestly think we're in a great spot. The big, the big labels and the big machines, they're having to furlough workers, and I myself, you know, got got laid off from from my, my restaurant, which is, which is a, you know, corporate restaurants. So 8080 and I are pretty, pretty blessed to say that, you know, with a small team, we can still keep producing and be efficient. And, and write and create, despite the fact that most of the country or most of the world's stands still, you know,

Thomas Mooney 11:42

yeah, I was just thinking about like that, what you're saying, In comparison, I guess, like the big, quote, unquote, the big record that's been pushed back, he's like, the Dixie Chicks record. And I guess, like, I always thought, you know, they could release it today. And there wouldn't be any problems, you know, they could Yeah, but maybe it's more on the logistical side, that aspect of like, if it's such a big record, you have to, there's probably things that were that I'm just not thinking about, like the actual making of CDs for target and Walmart, and, you know, stuff like that, that is just, you know, things that like the average person probably doesn't think about. Yeah, you know, and yeah, with with you, it's obviously like this, or, you know, not just you, but like, if it's a smaller

Gabe Lee 12:31

outfit, operation,

Thomas Mooney 12:32

or operation, it's just, that means there's less hoops to go through, essentially, total things. Absolutely.

Gabe Lee 12:40

Yeah, and I haven't most mostly I've seen as far as, as far as big time artists, you know, like alias artists that are really, you know, having a tough time or that I saw on saving country that Zac Brown is putting his Southern ground Studios on the market, which is wild to me, because he basically rebuilt that thing from the ground up. And it was an already historic place to begin with. So you think about think about artists that are pretty much at the prime of their careers touring worldwide and having to lay off like, everyone but everyone but himself in his manager in the band, pretty much, you know, the cancelling of a nationwide tour, I mean, it's no one's really knows really, everyone everyone's having to having to take some considerations in this for sure. And obviously, again, with a larger with a larger operation, it's it's even more complex. So where we're just pretty much we're just keeping on keeping on again, I have pretty good resources to get through this and I've got my family you know, in Nashville and from here, so I've got my family here and they're close by so that's also comforting and hopefully, hopefully by the end of the summer, we'll be right again, but we'll see.

Thomas Mooney 14:04

Yeah, yeah, like I think people don't realize that Yeah, like these these massive artists who are monetarily just raking in dollars that also means like they're paying so many more people that they're yeah there's like so much more as much money that's coming in there's you know, just so much more money being paid out at expense wise and like you'd be just surprised how many people you have to pay and you know, like even on like the way you're mentioned with Zac Brown thing I mean, I'm sure like that's that means payments on on that you know what I mean? Like there's all kinds of things that we're just probably not thinking of whenever you become, you know, George Strait or Garth Brooks.

Gabe Lee 14:50

Yeah. Well, the the you know, your your trappings get get larger and more demanding and also more expensive when when you're When your artistry grows, and that's definitely since I think similar in a lot of ways to a restaurant, a restaurant is always running with like, you know, extra overhead, you're always almost running behind in a restaurant. Because because it's just, it's just a money pit, but and you're all we're constantly you know, resupplying and then working to compensate and make that profit line for everything, alcohol food down to the down to the sugar, the salt and pepper that you buy, right. And, and having having been in restaurants forever, I can I can empathize not only with I guess there's but the local small, not even just small, just the immediate locale are in Nashville and Davidson County, these, these restaurants that are threatened to never open again, and really essentially thought so. That's, that's, that's really, that's really something to consider, I think, and part of this gravity that I was talking about just how things are going to change and, and how, again, how we can sort of make better for it. Because it's the change is inevitable. It's it's already happening. Right?

Thomas Mooney 16:16

Yeah, I was talking to him buddy about, you know, the whole the restaurant part, I think, like, that's been probably the, one of the most eye opening aspects of, of this pandemic is realizing just how, you know, the margins are so close on so many small businesses. And, you know, that's, that's kind of been eye opening in this entire process, you know, and it's not necessarily because I think people are ignorant of that fact. But like, just maybe naive or just haven't thought about it, you know, because that's something that never really crossed my mind. Really, you know?

Gabe Lee 16:50

Right. Yeah. It's, it's just, it's just the way, the way I think we're gonna have to deal with is, I always try to always try to say, you know, be kind, and be gracious, because man, folks are dealing with so much and whether you're, whether you're running a taco stand, or whether you're running a chain of keto, you know, like, your shifts getting pushed in right now. And it's, it's not, it's not easy. So, I, I really, I really help. On some level, you know, this continues to bring people together similar to, like we were talking about earlier with the storms in Nashville. And that, and that it doesn't cause more of a row. Because so so often, I mean, in everything, people, people want to bicker, and people want to, you know, talk shit and point fingers. And yeah, you gotta I think people have to be held accountable for sure. But all people will make mistakes. And yeah, there's assholes out there, you got to look out for them too. But just in my immediate community, I think that's like something that me and at and, you know, my close friends and my buddies, always try and do is just to make sure that like, no one's being overlooked. No one's left behind. And that we're kind of all in this together. Nashville. For me growing up here still feels like a small town. And, and I love looking at it through that lens. And I hope that never changes for me. You know? Yeah, I

Thomas Mooney 18:22

was gonna ask you about growing up in Nashville, like, if you like, what was your perspective growing up in? You know, like the, you mentioned earlier? Like the, the tourist aspect or like the, like the the music kind of the Country Music Center, right. You know, like, small town, like, that's interesting to think of you, I guess because like you you've, you know, all these little spots these hidden gems, if you will. Has, I guess like growing up there has it hasn't been any Do you feel like you're you trying to become an artist? Is any different than somebody who moves there from insert? city here?

Gabe Lee 19:08

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'll start off just right there. I mean, I really I I admire everyone who moves here from wherever they come from, because playing out the song letter rounds, the rounds or briefing in Nashville, you get on stage like three or four people swap songs for about an hour and you get to know them. The thing about the Nashville Songwriters, you have folks that move here, just on a whim, I mean, I can't tell you how many stories I have bartender buddies, you know, songwriter, buddies of mine who are just like yeah, I mean, I came here and visited a friend and I loved it so much that I basically never left. So that that takes guts and that takes being being pretty, pretty brave and willing to chase that that dream especially if you're coming here you know to write Songs having having grown up here, I was spoiled, I have had the support system and a group of friends that completely outside of the music industry that are basically like, like family this is, this is home to me. So the, the familiarity of everything feels feels great, we will be playing in Midtown, and you know, we'll be surrounded by tourists and stuff, but I went to high school two blocks down the street. So that kind of feeling is definitely kind of like a, like a, like a blanket, you know, it makes everything feel a lot more comfortable and familiar and close. When I was growing up here, the tourist thing wasn't huge. I mean, I didn't notice it, you know, I was just a kid. And I would like any other kid, and I'd be hanging out with my friends and stuff. And, and then when I got older and started getting into music and stuff, you know, I realized that these friends that their parents were like, you know, owners of studios, and like, basically publishers and writers and Grammy nominated, you know, musicians, so the, the whole lifeblood and the culture of this town is when you grew up here, it's, it's very much all around you, everyone, everyone hears it feels like is somehow connected by some, you know, by some secondary third degree, at least, I mean, at the most to music, and it's, it's wonderful, it's awesome, because that really is what makes Music City Music City. It's not, it's not the necessary, not necessarily the, the, you know, the, the UMTS and BMI is not necessarily the big labels that are raking in tons of money and producing, you know, these huge pop artists, although that's undeniably a part of it. There's, there's this there's this just great. I guess, Southern familiarity and hospitality and, and culture about the actual town and locals itself that is not fake at all. And it's very, very real. And by some stroke of

school, and then, you know, came came to Nashville for jobs. And my brother and I were both born here. And it's, it's almost it always will be. I've had friends from high school that moved away first chance they got because, you know, they didn't want to be in the music scene or surrounded by music scene. Or maybe, you know, their parents were involved, and they wanted to get out from under that. But I've always taught folks I want to be in rest of my life. So the code fers is, for me really, really interesting. And really homey and really fun. So, I'm all I'm all about it.

Thomas Mooney 23:02

Yeah, like, I guess, like a good comparison would be like, if you grew up in Las Vegas or something, you know what I mean? Like, where everything kind of feels connected to whatever that like that industry? Where if you're like growing up in like New York City are something that I guess like, it's just, it's so big and massive that it would it doesn't matter you can it doesn't feel really connected necessarily to any specific industry. You know, um, I guess like one of the interesting things you know, I think you realize that you grow up is you realize that there's like, a lot of middle ground and whatever, especially like in music. I guess like when I was little like, I just automatically thought you know, if you become a musician, an artist you become, you know, you become Van Halen you become George Strait. Like, you know what I mean? Like you, you end up as that level of success, but there's this there's just so much more depth to it. You know what I mean? Like, even like, growing up, I would think that even if they were an indie artist, like you kind of thought of them as, Oh, this person has to be living in a mansion in the Hollywood Hills, you

Unknown Speaker 24:17

know? Yeah, I wish

Thomas Mooney 24:19

Yeah, no.

Gabe Lee 24:22

That would be nice. I want to I want to live in your world. I want to live in your, your little fantasy world.

Thomas Mooney 24:28

Yeah, well, this is like this is like 10 year old Thomas. is mine. Not a I don't know. It's just it's interesting to think about, like, just there being so much middle ground, there's being an obviously that means like there's a lot more room for, for artistry. Now, even in comparison to, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. This episode is brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Obviously the coronavirus pandemic has had a massive impact on the music industry and on our daily lives at large. The blue light has been closed for nearly two months now. And if you're like me, you're probably jonesing for some live music, perhaps a lone star beer or around a burn shots for your favorite bartender. If you're truly missing the place, there are two things you can do. For starters, Lubbock songwriter Charlie stout and 49 other songwriters have come together for a 50 song compilation called Monday night lights. It's 50 demo style recordings for $50 where all the proceeds will be going to furloughed bar staff at blue light live, all you have to do is head over to Monday night lights.com. We'll be getting songs from the likes of Josh Abbott and Wade Bowen and William Clark green to up and comers like Slade Coulter and Morgan Radford to blue light singer songwriter competition winners like Juliet McConkey, Isaac Hoskins and Kenneth O'Meara. You'll recognize a whole lot of people on this list. Just to me your name right here. Trust me when I say you will want to get money that lights it's just a incredible collection of incredible songwriters. There's also some pretty cool limited edition poster prints that Charlie has for sale on the site, where those proceeds will obviously be going to bar staff as well. And we will probably end up having some other cool items listed on Monday night. lights.com as well, pretty soon. Again, Monday night lights calm, we've already raised a good chunk of money. So far, we're super proud of how this all came together and proud of how many people have shared the compilation and everything. But as you know, more can always help. And of course, head over to blue light lubbock.com. Click on the merge tab. They have koozies and T shirts and caps. I swear if you put on a blue light cap and a T shirt, it almost feels like you're there if you close your eyes, especially if you've already thrown on the Monday night lights compilation. Okay, back to the episode I was gonna ask you about as obviously, you released this new record just a couple months ago or last? I guess it's been a month back. Yeah. But you know, foreign land came out. Like 51 weeks ago, I went ahead and like I looked it up because I was like they're a year apart. But like, it's not 52 weeks, it's 51 weeks, he put two records out within

Gabe Lee 27:26

less than a day.

Thomas Mooney 27:26

Yeah. Was that always kind of the plan was to, you know, just get back into the studio and cut another record kind of directly after

Gabe Lee 27:38

the way the way we have our Alex's little labels set up is that we pretty much have everything we need to cut records and all the personnel that that we use are our close buddies, and all these session guys and the producers and the engineers like they work they work very closely. So, so much that like I think it was like, you know, like three weeks ago, I wrote the song called talk to you. And he was like I love that we should put it out it's perfect for quarantine speaks to quarantine and and so he called David in the studio and you know just said hey, can you let Gabe in the back of the studio? While you're while you're there? Because there's no there's no one at the studio he's like can you gave in the back of the studio into the into the sound room. And then you can go into the front and the control room? Cuz they're not connected? And he was like, Can you just let them in there for like 30 minutes and you just track him playing that song a couple times. And then we'll just send that to mastering and I'll send it to the distributors. We'll get it out. We had it out in two weeks. So we have this great little operation where we all work extremely closely. And we can we can knock out what we need pretty pretty quickly. So the when I when I met at this was probably the is probably the end of 2018 when I when I first met him, and he saw me playing out and he saw me in my job role player playing like an hour gig at a little dive bar in Nashville. And he was like, man, let's just cut that. Like it's just it's easy. It sounds great. feels right, let's just do it. So me and Luciano when studio cut 1011 songs. And then by the time we had spent a year playing out on it and and promoting it, then had another 10 or 11 songs ready. So it just it just happened to seem to work out that way. And at this point. I'm kind of a late bloomer, I'm almost 30 and I waited until I was about like 28 to really start playing out solo. So with the songs I had written, that would become farmland so I I had I had basically recreated go And it made sense after our first kind of test with with farmland as a singer songwriter project to say, Alright, let's bring in a band and see what we can do and just put out more music because we can, you know, because it's, it's, it's, it's, it doesn't hurt and it's in the feels right and the band's there and we're just going to give it a shot. So I think on the next one, I'm going to be on the next records. Very likely, you know, next March, I wouldn't be surprised if we're able to get it out by then I'm going to do a lot more. I think I'm going to live with the songs a lot longer before bringing it to the band as and I'm going to, you know, try and try and arrange them a lot more instead of just go to town because that's what we did with honkytonk cow. We said, we just brought the songs up and right, we're going to put the band of knees and like, just jam on and see what happens and kept the text we liked. And that's pretty much a Honky Tonk, Kalki man, we're able to cut it within like four sessions. But on the next on the neck, is that I really want to push it for more of a director's aspect and say, Alright, on this song, I want more of a Jackson Browne feel on this song, one more Leonard Skinner feel and very be very intent. intent form purposeful about it.

Thomas Mooney 31:21

Yeah, I do love like, I think sometimes we we like to let the what what we're supposed to be doing, what the what the, I guess like the business dictates of like, Oh, we need to do this with a record. And we can't put out a record until it's x amount of months after? Yes. And I think sometimes we let all of that kind of get in the way of actually just letting music come out. And totally, you know, like sometimes, like, it's, it's, you know, it's fine to just put another record out. Yeah.

Gabe Lee 31:52

Yeah. Absolutely.

Thomas Mooney 31:54

Like that. Yeah, that's like the, at the end of the day, that's what you're wanting to do. So, you know, put her dam wreck, right, you know,

Gabe Lee 32:01

and I think and again, I'm, I'm almost 30 and I feel like I've I'm continuing to just wanting to be better and wanting to improve on on the work before and I have, I have my favorite songwriters and bands that I listen to, that I look to for inspiration and, and I'll look at their first to their fifth records and see, you know, what kind of progression they made? And they, at what point did they say, Alright, I'm throwing all the rules out the window, and I'm just gonna do something fucking crazy. You know? Like, when's that, okay? And, you know, how long how the voice of the of the writer and the narrator and the characters in the song develop, you know, record a record. So, just trying to study that be a good student of music. And, again, we with the freedom that he provides of being my manager and my and my producer, it's, it's great. I've got a lot of got a lot of, at our, at our disposal, and at my fingertips, and I better I better correct before he drops me, you know,

Thomas Mooney 33:09

I always love you know, the going back through a catalogue of somebody, because yeah, you do get the you get so much context. Like sometimes you can, I guess like, right now, since there is Spotify, there is iTunes, you can just grab like, an entire person's catalogue. Yeah, and sometimes that can be overwhelming. Especially like, you know, with, you know, somebody who has, like, 40 years in a career, you know, so that there's like, I guess, like, what I've always thought about was how, like, the first time I heard Springsteen, you know, I was just like listening to a greatest hits. And it you know, you're just getting all these different songs from these different arrows, these different records. And you kind of like, it's hard to comprehend, I guess the space between those, those albums. And it's not until you really go back and listen, where you do find the that space between those years, you know what I mean? And that growth then like the changes and yeah, it's just really interesting to go back and find that, like, the nuance of someone's career, who's been like your I guess maybe like, somebody that you've done that with like, what who is there anyone that just jumps out where you're like, Oh, this is like a, this is maybe like the most interesting jumps?

Gabe Lee 34:36

Oh, for sure. Um, I don't know about the most interesting but I mean, you know, I I go back and I have like the entire Jackson Browne discography. And it's just cool to see what happened with Rockers, the transition into the 80s where everything got a lot more cynthy and Poppy and disco. So, you know, he'll like, I think lawyers and love is his 80s record and it's just like, it's just ridiculous. Like, there's just all these Silly sounds and with his like, kinda like, you know, so cow country melodies. It just, it's so weird, but it's fun at the same time, I think more contemporary artists that that I love to death and I listen to all the time Nikki lanes one of them and doors is another one. So like if you if you look at Nikki lane like she only has like two or three just three records out and it's cool to see the the jump between those I think it's from like, early 2000s till just a couple years ago, those three came out and her first record was definitely like a singer songwriter feel. And very, the the writing in it was very gritty and, and raw and passionate. But the sound was like still work. And then she had her second album all or nothing, which is my favorite one, where she like, for lack of a better term becomes a woman in a lot of ways. Like she starts talking about real issues she talks about like sex and like, you know, what it's like, what it's like being a woman being in love and dealing with emotions and, and being a musician. And then I think her last record, she worked with Dan, our bank here in Nashville, and produced highway Queen, which you know, is has had the best commercial success so far. And that's all had like a very similar like, I guess, vibe, all of our all of our music, which is really cool to see because she's got a special sound and she's contained to chase it and then you have I was saying my one of my favorite bands DAWs because of their songwriting in the way Taylor Goldsmith tells stories This is obviously this is more of a California kind of folk rock kind of vibe. actually very similar to Jackson Browne a lot of ways, right but they, you know, when they, when they went with God, they had the three, three first records are amazing. And then they they put out this record called we're all going to, we're all going to die, which plays a lot with like these really funny I think mood sounds, and just crazy sense and loops. And all these folks who are in love with this, this indie folk storytelling vibe or like, just heartbroken, you know, just like crying streaks. And, and in, you know, in an uproar and being like, man, like, like just talking shit, you know, on all these forums that everyone has now like online and whatever just be like, man, like what happened? And I'm like, dude, do you not think these musicians know what they're doing like to have the success that they've had you not think they, you know, understand that they're bringing something completely new and that that's completely okay. And I just, I just love that because I know that. I know, there's like the people talk about the sophomore slump or whatever, you know, someone, someone puts out their first record a second record, it's a hit, they go on to or they have success. The third and fourth record suck. And like that does happen. But I can't get that intentionally, you know, musicians are artists and trying to create and if you're just doing the same as writing the same song over and over again, like you might as well just be part of the pop country like commercial pipeline here in Nashville, right? And the same Taylor Swift song over and over, you know?

Thomas Mooney 38:29

Yeah, I think like people, there's obviously people who, if Dylan had just put out, you know, Blonde on Blonde 50 times in a row, they would actually have loved it, you know, but yeah, these people they grow, you know, people grow and change. And, you know, it's just, it's one of those things where I would hate the idea of like, an artist just putting the same record out every couple of years, and it just being the same. You know, I guess, even if it's good, you know, or great, it's like, okay, yeah, but I guess we're, we're staying in the same, you know, pocket of, of ideas, like, is this is your life, just the same exact thing as it was 10 years ago? Or, you know,

Gabe Lee 39:16

right. You know, you would you would hope not right, you would hope that there's, there's some development, I mean, that, that's the thing about for me, artistry, that's so important is that it continues to grow and, and better itself, whatever that means for each person individually. I think that Nashville, you're surrounded by like a national, every everyone It feels like everyone's been on like, you know, the voice, or like the X Factor or American Idol here and, you know, like, everyone's, everyone's had a stage and is sort of trying to, or everyone has been on that stage is sort of trying to get out from under it and do their own thing. It's, it's just, it's kind of interesting and, and when it comes to that, like, I'm just like, great. Like, you can Sing the pants off of Jolene. But, you know, can you write a song Can you tell a story and, and some people can really fucking write, but barely know how to hold a guitar. So, like that the artistry artistry is a is a mysterious thing and it's that's why it's that's why it's magic when when when certain things when records come out that that make a difference or that are a piece of work that hold hold well and, and and don't don't just fizzle out you know things that are made to last made well with love so that's what that's what 18 I want to do you know, we just want to we're not making it's not necessarily country music and he'll tell you this he just wants to make good music You know, he just wants to make music that he would listen to in his own car driving around town and that's that's that's why when we have a trust and we have like so great you look at the other writers he has or the other artists you know trust in marriage Jamie Lynn Wilson the late great Kylie Ray Harris and they all just you know, they all just had their own thing and and you know, we trust each other we trust each other so much you know, that relationship between artists and managers really important because the manager has all the say for the most part really really does has all this has all this clout, but it doesn't feel like that we're at it feels like you feel like he's he's holding you up you know not not not pulling you along. So it's it's a it's a good thing we got

Thomas Mooney 41:34

Yeah, yeah. The thing the term you're looking for not country but Indigo.

Gabe Lee 41:41

Yeah, the Indigo I saw that I saw was it rolling stone or Spotify? Put on Indigo playlist?

Thomas Mooney 41:47

Yeah, Spotify did. Yeah.

Gabe Lee 41:48

Yeah. That's funny, man. Because I I saw someone who tweeted it was it was it is bill. someone tweeted that it was it was they were like, Oh shit. I wonder what Tyler thinks of his face being on the cover of the Indigo playlist because you know, Tyler, Tyler Childers and Sergio are like, it's catching goddamnit Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 42:12

yeah. Well, like, I've been updating it and I like right now. Willie Nelson's on, it was over. And I was like, if there's one person who's still alive, who is like country fucking music, it's Willie Nelson. Like, why? Why do we have to? And I think that's like one of those things if if Willie Nelson is being pushed out of genre, that he helped, you know, really create really mold, has his fingerprints all over, then maybe like, we need to like, reassess, you know, it's

Gabe Lee 42:49

like, I really,

Thomas Mooney 42:51

I have no problem with people listening to, you know, bad music, or like music that I just don't like, you know, I that's, I guess, were part of my thing is is like it. Sometimes it's just too exhausting to care about, like that kind of stuff. But, you know, also at the same time, there is a little bit of, there's some history here. And maybe, like, at the end of the day, like this bro country, really affect me. No, but like, also at the same time, like maybe we should, like, let let like classic country artists who would be considered a country in the 70s or the 60s or whatever, maybe they should, like still be allowed to have their space on the platform. You know,

Gabe Lee 43:41

man, it's, it's tough because I have a conversation with with folks all the time. You know, it's it's, it's, it's bizarre that you look at any other genre, right? Like, jazz, rock, bluegrass, whatever. You look at other genres and the contemporary stuff makes lives right right next to the stuff that was you know, the same of the same genre 20 3040 years ago like it all makes sense. It's all very congruent and and you know, as as part of a family then you look at you, you look at country music, and what's you know, coming out on the radio as country and it's not like you know, nothing like Willie and nothing like what was coming out of Nashville 40 years ago. So that's, that's absolutely the question like, why why the birth of all these sub genres? And not that Americana is uncool? Like, right kind of there's American is home for some amazing shit like Jason Isbell. Like Jason is bill. He's a rocker and I love that most of his country most of his records I think on iTunes or, I mean are put out as rock or singer songwriter, but Americana eats that shit up like they call The King of Americana. And when you know so, but when you're and I actually spoke at at about this recently, concerning the next record, I was like, I was like, man, I think what we're working on this, like, with the sound that's developing is more than country. And I was like I you know, there's there's blues, there's soul there's, there's like, you know, country western, there's Southern rock in it all and and there's some Paul Simon in it, whatever you want to call that like folk, you know? And And should we should we be should we be marketing This is really important to be marketing it as country and putting it out as a country record because when you do that you put yourself up against, you know, you put yourself up against the the Brad Paisley's in the loop Brian's and the SAM hunts on, on these playlists and, and on sales on sales sheets. So like, how do you get the most visibility with with your music? Sure, like if you've got if you got country influences. That's, that's awesome. If you want to play as a country record, I see if I can do it. But that's just that's just the reality that we're coming up against, as, you know, how do you how do you? How do you fight these giants that are just that have a monopoly on the top 20. You know, like, we in Hong Kong, when we put it out, it got up to it got up into the top 25 for the first week for records on iTunes, country charts. And then, you know, a week later it was, you know, I you know, in a black hole somewhere. So, that, that that situation is is aggravating. Because, like my Tyler Childers and like, serger like, we're, we we like to think that we're putting out country records. But now I'm starting to I'm starting to think, you know, maybe maybe it's not necessarily an issue of, of, maybe maybe there's, there's a way to, I think avoid avoid that, that clash and say, not not just not giving up on the genre, but just understanding that to get to get the music to more people and the people that we want listening to it, you know, the people that aren't going to love it, and appreciate it. Which is you know, which is which is not the folks who listen to top 40 Country radio right now would be to maybe maybe pursue singer songwriter release or a rock release or even American straight up American release. And it's kind of weird to think about that, but it's definitely something we've been playing with and discussing.

Thomas Mooney 47:43

Yeah, I think like the biggest problem with Americana is that it's just had bad branding and it's just like, the term is just so now bland. There was like, I don't know, I don't know if this really know if Indigo is the the right term either. But America just sounds so dated. You know. It sounds just I don't know.

Gabe Lee 48:08

But But you look at and you look at the the folks like like the folks on this Indigo playlist. Like they're all storytellers, man. They're all great songwriters. Like for the most part, like, like brandy Clark, Erin enderlin Justin Townes. Earle? Like, this is a killer playlist. Yeah. This shit is this kind of stuff, like I listened to. And it inspires me and I hope it inspires other people and I think it does but to, to be wrestling with, where where it lives, and and how it should be. How it should be branded is, is definitely it's definitely confusing. I would like to think that 90% of it is just country. But

Thomas Mooney 48:55

this episode is sponsored by Smith, iron and design. It's owned and operated by one of my good friends Aaron Smith, and his dad sonny. As the name implies, Smith iron in design specializes in creating custom metal and woodwork. The vast array of metal signs that are perfect wall decor that will tie our room together. That is on everything from welcome signs that family crests, flags and Texas cutouts. They have a series of these metal reads that are perfect for your front door, and you're able to change them out depending on the season. Are you a sports fan? Well, there's nothing better than having a giant logo of your team on the wall of your dinner office. When it comes to signage. The possibilities are really endless. What you should really do though, is head over to Smith art and design comm to get a look at their vast portfolio. That's Smith, iron and design calm. I'll throw a link into the show notes as well. They don't just do science either. Some of the smaller items are custom bottle openers and key chains. Then they also have bookshelves TV stands, nightstands and fire pits. You know, it was about a year ago, Aaron built me a custom shelf, I needed something new to store some of my vinyl, and everything I'd come across. Either the shelves weren't big enough for LPs, where it looked too bland or cheaply made, or, to be perfectly honest, too expensive. So I wound up talking with Adrian. And about a week later, I was able to pick up this custom shelf unit that's just been amazing. It's incredibly sturdy, has a bit of a rustic feel. In my opinion, one of the best parts was just having so much control in the process, you can get them as tall as you want with the shelves at the perfect depth in length. Again, for me, this was for storing vinyl, so they had to be a certain height and depth. I've been thinking about getting a custom bookshelf companion piece soon as well. Now, for the most part, they primarily serve the Lubbock area and the South Plains. But for some of their smaller pieces, they're able to ship nationwide as well. Again, Smith, iron and design calm. Now back to the show.

Gabe Lee 51:07

I really love what what Brent Cobb is doing. I don't know if you've read kawatte but he's, he's just like this. He's been in Nashville for a while now. And he he started at a Walgreens and had greats has great story and just started writing as in a publishing company and ultimately got all the resources and the backing, he needed to cut his own records. And it's killer. It's it's he's as good as anyone else. And I don't think he gets enough recognition. But he he's definitely touted as one of the best songwriters in this town. And not not only by not only by folks who love, you know, indigo or Americano, or, you know, whatever this new sub genre of country is, but also by commercial writers, commercial writers see him as a beast. And, and he's had great cuts. So folks like that, who aren't just militant, you know, are adamant adamantly on one side of the line or the other. Who can who can bridge that gap and who can, you know, draw a line between between the two and do a great job of doing it? And without sacrificing any ideals like that is? That is what I'm going for, man. Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 52:23

I do love Brian Cobb. He. I guess like the first time I came across him was him in. He had like a cut on a Andrew combs record.

Yeah.

And I can't remember what it was. It's like shine on it shine on rainy day. Things like him. And

Gabe Lee 52:39

that sounds really familiar.

Thomas Mooney 52:41

Anyways, yeah, that's what the first time I heard him was. Was was seeing him as a co writer of that Andrew comb song. And then, not long after I realized he had been doing some co writes and writes with whiskey Myers on that. I guess, like that first record that Brent Cobb, or Dave Cobb produced, and yeah, he's just he's got like, such a great way to turn a phrase. That's something like obviously, that you're really great at is like, using these really great expressions and idioms and phrases to, to, I don't know, make a song a little bit brighter. I always like that kind of songwriting. For you, like, how do you Where do these come from? Or do you have like a, I'm assuming a lot of them come from just hearing them out and out in the wild? But like, do you then like, how do you put them down? Do you do you make sure to like to always put it in a note? Or is it just something that you just kind of are able to file away in your mind and then pull it back later?

Gabe Lee 53:53

I think it's I think it's a little bit of both when you when you're I guess I work in the restaurant, which is a pretty colorful industry. And it's it's also very entertaining as a bartender I mean the all the folks you meet everyone's got a different story to tell. So I like to think that that whatever the the again the lifeblood of this town is just is just swimming with with awesome stories and and talent and inspiration. You just got to soak it up. So at times yeah times I'll if I think of a little little hook or little melody that goes along with a couple of words, you know, there's nothing more convenient nowadays and a little voice memo and and that saves the day and I can go work on that later. A lot of times, though, if that does come around, I'll if I'm if I'm, if I sit down with it, and I'm struggling with it, and it takes me a couple rights to even formulate any any direction on it all. I'll just let it sit. I'll sit I'll let it sit for weeks, months a year. If I have to And sometimes it'll completely disintegrate. And sometimes it'll come back and in and be great and its own song, or sometimes I'll just recycle it and, and it'll be like some side imagery, some, you know, some little nuanced imagery and another song down the line. So, the is the inspiration I, for me, I mean has, has been a lot through literature I, I read a ton. And I read a lot of short stories, which for me are like tracks on a record. And because you have limited space to talk things through and to share emotions and stuff. So read a lot of Ron rash, he's a, I think he's a an author out of South Carolina. And he's just a phenomenal writer. So that among other you know, the things that I am constantly rereading, or you know, or even movies and stuff, those kind of those kind of those kind of medium, real, you know, just aren't good for inspiration. So yeah, my process is, is pretty soft is pretty solitary. I think if you say to you, you're fine with being on your own, for the most part, I am to, you know, working out working out at bars and stuff, you're just pretty demanding your, your run around, it's loud as new throughout, you're constantly being exposed to tons of people and, and then when I get home, you know, late at night after late shift ditz is one of the ways I unwind to sit down with a guitar and just poke around for a little bit. Nashville is a big co writing town. And I have only done about four or five co writes. And it's, it's kind of it's, it's odd. That culture to me, because, you know, I'll play a song I'll play around in Midtown somewhere and you know, get off stage and I'll go to the bar, and then someone will come up and shake my hand and say, Hey, that sounds great. What are you doing next week? What's right? And I'm just like, yeah, I'm just like, Man, I'm like, Alright, maybe you should buy me a beer first. Like, I don't even know you, man. You know. And I and I kind of the, the old like, you know, the old ornery, like miser and he's like, man, just like, you know, get off my kid off my lawn. You know, I don't I don't know. I don't know you. And I don't know that I would. You maybe are great. But I don't know if I'd sit down and write a song with you. And so but but some people would make a living doing that some people will just, they write like three times a day with three different people. And sometimes they make they get a hit, you know? And that's also how dreams are made. So teaches Oh,

Thomas Mooney 57:41

yeah. The, you know, I guess like talking with songwriters over time. Obviously. It's one of those things where Yeah, great songwriters are typically readers. But I do think there is something about a lot of songwriters, I realize our short story, readers.

Gabe Lee 58:04

I'm surprised I haven't heard that from many of my friends like they they don't read very much. And, and I'm actually glad to hear you say that.

Thomas Mooney 58:14

Well, I'm thinking of like a couple of buddies right now like Johnny Burke and Evan Felker. Whenever ever I've talked with him about stuff. It's almost always your your classic writers, but like their short story collections, like the Hemingway short stories, or the Faulkner short stories, or like even What's his name? Another guy, I guess, like, like Ben Nichols, of loose arrow, he's big into the short stories of like, Larry Brown and Tim O'Brien. Cool. Yeah, like the southern Lake kind of thing. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's because it is that very, there's that connection of it being short, you know, like you saying you had to pack something into a song, right? You, you back in backing it into five minutes, or whatever the case is four minutes, 30 minutes. If there's a connection with that, of like, how you have to kind of get to the point. If there's, or what but I've noticed that there has been some people who who mentioned like, not just being readers, but a fan of short story writing, so I don't know.

Gabe Lee 59:30

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's so cool. When the the way that these these authors with short stories get get the point across and at times the work, you know, obviously with a novel you have 400 pages and the short story, you only have like, you know, five, so I just, I just love the way that writers have to be. When you're tackling your short story. You just have to be more concise with your and you know, more Man, what's the term, it's just just more adapt with your, your imagery and your language. You don't have as much space to work with. But that's okay. That's the whole point. And then, and then sometimes you don't have to have closure. You can you can start, you know, a short story doesn't often start with Timmy was born on the 14th of August, you know, like, you know, on this day, blah, blah, blah. And then but, you know, like, it's just like, bam, like, suddenly you're in this person's mind, you know, you suddenly wake up and you're there. And then at the very end at the end, you know, it's so great. Like, some of the best short stories ended with a cliffhanger. You know, you're just like, holy shit, what happened like that, and that feeling is just so powerful. The feeling that a few words and a few pages can give you. Like, I read some of my favorite novels. Yeah, they're, they're life changing. And, and I'll read them, I'll read them and then put them down for like, two years, and I'll come back and reread them again, because, like, you see something new in them every time and you mature with them. And you understand more from them every time but, but a short story is like that, like immediate sort of sort of gratification for me when it comes to I guess just crafting words to elicit you know, emotions and feelings from from an audience. And it's, it's great man, like, it's one of my favorite things to do just like sit down at a coffee shop and kill you know, crush a bunch of short stories. It's it's a good way I think to to sort of get the you know, to sort of like grease the grease the wheels in your in your mind and give them a turning and say like, Okay, what, what ideas? What ideas kind of be playing or What colors do I want to do I want to you know, project on some on some of my next work so yeah, I'm constantly reading and I tell all my friends like songwriters and and and just, you know, other buddies like I'm just like, read read read, it's good for you. But let someone tell me to fuck off.

Thomas Mooney 1:02:05

When I was little about, you know, short stories, or just writing reading in general is and I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about with this is, you know, reading for for pleasure getting what, something out of the story. But then also, I love reading examining the language, the way the story was told, there's, there's something special about that, you know, about like the, I mean, like the easiest comparisons is you know, like Hemingway being really short sentences. And then Faulkner being super long. Oh, God, yeah.

You know, dragging

on paragraphs, you know, totally. I love like just examining that kind of stuff. Like the way you use language to tell a story.

Gabe Lee 1:02:55

Yeah, you know, that's the thing is like with with literature. You don't you don't have the, you don't have the trappings and the dressings of, of a band. And in a pedal steel and grape production. It's it's just words on a page man, like, so that there's a reason there's a reason that it's, it's revered and that it's an art form. I'm for me, because, and I and I and I mostly read mostly read like Southern lit fiction myself. So and I'm just getting into like, like autobiographies, like, songwriter, autobiographies, that my friends have gifted me and my like, you have to read this. So, for instance, I'm just getting into testimony, which is the Robbie Robertson auto bio, and it's pretty freakin great man. He's, you know, obviously, one of the greatest and one of the greatest rock bands of all time, but just is a great, eloquent writer on a page, which, for me, like, I, I don't expect that. I mean, I would assume that he's, I know that he's great with words. But then when I sit down and, and read a page, like because it's, it's not like reading the song, I mean, at least not for me. I've tried to get my day trying to, we're sitting at a computer and typing out, like essays or research papers. I mean, it's not fiction, but it's, you know, it's completely different, I guess, medium, but that the writing on a page is so different from from, you know, writing with melody and stuff. So, you know, it's, it was it's so cool to do halfway through the book. Now. It's just so cool. Because he's got, you know, stories. He's got some stories to tell. And he does a great job of doing it all, you know, on paper. So, I was really, I've been really, you know, glad that my friend suggested that for me so far. And I think that's kind of like the marriage of Then what were the two things we're talking about, you know, like musicianship and that kind of that kind of craft versus, versus literature. And, and this this, like this specific autobiographies killer for me. So, again, it's just for me, it's about being a student, you know, just trying to see what you can, what you can learn and what you can absorb to to be better and add to your craft because, like, that's something that's, that's not hard to do, you know, at least not for me, it's not hard for me just to sort of apply that. Just to my everyday just try and try and learn something new every day and be better. Never, never, never think you've, you know, reached your ceiling.

Thomas Mooney 1:05:44

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I've not read that book yet. And to check it out the testimony. It's good. I can see him definitely being a being a great writer just simply because of I'm basing this totally off of just watching the next waltz 100 times, okay, he is like so fucking, I guess, like, perfect in that kind of thing. Like, yeah, the the long monologue interview kind of shit. You know, him just being I don't know

Gabe Lee 1:06:13

how they remember half the shit. They did. Think about all the, you know, illicit substances that, you know, they were partying on? And like, I'm just like, how do you remember like, the color of the car, you are parked next to you in the gas station, like outside of some motel, you know, in, in Iowa? Like, how do you got to recall that? It's pretty incredible.

Thomas Mooney 1:06:36

Yeah, I don't know. I, I wonder if I was thinking if I was doing it. I would have to like, reference photos a whole bunch. Because like, I guess like, that would maybe spark the memory better. Make sure you get the details, right. And of course, there is like this aspect of them just like being totally wrong, like,

Gabe Lee 1:07:00

making shit up.

Thomas Mooney 1:07:01

Yeah,

Gabe Lee 1:07:02

that's what I that's what I'm gonna start doing right. I'm just gonna start just making up these ridiculous stories about tour. And hopefully people believe me, even though I've never ever, you know, I haven't been on tour.

Thomas Mooney 1:07:15

Going back to the CO writing thing. I guess like, you know, like, a lot of that has, there's just like, a different part of the brain. Because like you like, you're right, like, there are people who are able to just, that's kind of their thing they can just do and they're able to, I don't know, like, I guess work with with, it sounds bad. But it sounds like Like, they're, you know, they're just able to work with somebody to get whatever point they're trying to do. Where I, in my opinion, if I was a songwriter, I would probably be more of a solo person just simply because of the control aspect. Like you have just so much more control. in there, there's

Gabe Lee 1:07:56

definitely, there's definitely sharks, and co writing, you know, folks who just are there to sort of take your best idea and run with it. And not, I mean, yeah, there's folks that will just take over complete control of the session, which which happens, I mean, it happens, and then everything you do is just their personality. And when you write enough, I guess when you write enough, you're, you know, you're going to run to all types. So that's what I'm trying to avoid. You know, I'm trying to avoid just having being in a room with because, man, that would just be just like, I know, I mean, just like being in a room with someone who treats the songwriting that way, for me is like, just kind of distasteful. And, you know, I can just like, you know, leaves me in a weird in a bad mood, I guess. So. When people ask me to co write, I'll almost always say, look, I am more than happy to jam, if we can get some piano in the room. Like and you want to write with like two or three other people, I will just be back there, you know, writing riffs on the piano, and trying to keep that expectation sort of low and casual. Because Yeah, there's there's a lot of pressure in these rights. I mean, some of these people with some of these writers with publishing deals, you know, they have to submit, like, you know, five songs a week. And that's just to just to keep just to keep their, their stipend aka a loan, that they're gonna have to pay back if they don't get anything cut, you know. So those kind of deals are, can lead to great success. But, you know, I'm not gonna put myself in an environment where I, you know, have homework, when it comes to songwriting and when I when I have to turn it in, you know, at the end of every week, like I said, some of the songs I write, might take a year to flesh out and then sometimes I'll write On lunch break. So it's, it's, it's really hard for me to look at the writing process. And that through that lens and feel we feel comfortable and productive and gratified from it. But that's why that's why I write is to be in that mind space to feel to feel comfortable and feel safe and to wrestle with these thoughts, like in a healthy way. So, then again, there's some great co writers out there like my buddy, Vinnie, who I wrote Babylon with, like, he's a great guitar player, great singer. So, and really easy going. So walk into any session with pretty much anyone, and probably come away with something pretty good. And feeling good. And that's, that's like one of his best traits. So it really is, you know, it is it is to each his own. It's just, I just think that that part of the industry for me as as the writer that I am, feels feels invasive, you know, I don't want to I don't want to share my stuff. I want to I want to keep it to myself. Yeah. Now you do you do have you have opportunities for for great co writes that, like we got offered that correct with Marcus King. And I was like, you know, I'd be an idiot to say no to that. So, you know, we definitely, we definitely say yes to that. And it was it was great was great afternoon, a couple hours. Mike's just hanging in, riffing and working on some stuff. So it was it was a blast. And I won't ever forget it. So like that. That was a great situation of an awesome co right. But again, but you know, for me, for me even even doing that even going into that I have reservations about like, oh man, like and not just because it's you know, guitar God, Marcus gang, it's like, I just like, you have your expectations going into a right, you you want to have something good, everyone does. But there's a chance that you won't have anything, which happens a lot, too. And you just got to be okay with that.

Thomas Mooney 1:12:04

Yeah, yeah. Obviously, that went really well. I mean, it's not just the record on the record, but it's obviously the title track. Yeah, one of the things I love about that song, and I love when when artists will do this is the, like a self reference. You know, you mentioned by name, I guess, like, how did that line come across really come up?

Gabe Lee 1:12:25

What was that mean? So I had about what I was traveling at the time when we booked the right site, I was on my way back to the States. And I was I was working up this structure of honkytonk kelda. to pitch to Marcus when we got up and went got in the room together. I didn't even have the term I'll get on Cal written but when we came to the last verse, where I was, like, I'm trying to play with this idea of being the devil saloon. And, and, and then, you know, start talking about Broadway. And you know, how there's a Florida Georgia line bar, there's a Luke Bryan bar, there's a you know, whatever. And sued rock, right? Yeah. Pretty much everyone now, man. And he's like, yeah, it's kind of like, it's kind of like a Honky Tonk. Oh, and we just took that and ran with it. And I think I think the line that folks, you know, or wolves will make a fuss about is, is the line about, you know, the people, the people and people natural right, and phony ass country songs. And, sure, yeah, this definitely shots fired, I'm not going to deny that. But even keep listening, like, I'm there to, you know, I'm in hell with you. You know, it's not like, I'm better than it, I'm better than you. I am sitting right there at the bar, you know, and I'll get on with you having a drink. And, and I think that's, that's, that's the point where I at the point where I was, like, I was like, I'm willing to throw my, my own my own name in there. And whether it's whether it's me, me, or the or just this impression or character of me and the song. It's just a way to say, like, what I just said, like, you know, we're, we're, we're all we're all in the coupon code. It's okay. You know, and, you know, it's not, I don't know, if it's gonna all be all right, but, you know, at least I'm, at least, at least I'm sitting here and acknowledging that, you know, that it's, it's not like, it's not like anyone's better than than the other and we're at fault. And that's, I think that that swagger and that attitude, and that sort of lightheartedness to a lot of the record was was, is really one of the capstones of the you know, it's just the the enthusiasm for the songwriting. feeling like I can let a little more out than I had before him the austere sort of super late inspired poetic writing of farmland, and I think some of it carry through which is which is great for for listeners. Who wanted to you know, who fell in love I guess with the sound of the voice of the songwriting in that first record and then coming around to the second one, you know, throwing a bunch of electric guitars and v3 Oregon on it. I know it was a lot to probably take him for some folks but if you listen like a lot of the songs even though even the loud ones like Huggy Sancho and, and All Dogs Go To Heaven and Susanna like they're still telling stories if you listen, you know?

Thomas Mooney 1:15:26

Yeah, yeah, the I do love that though. Like the you know, I'm here with you guys. I'm, it's kind of like the, like the Kanye West lied about like, I'm just the first to admit it. You know, like, just being an asshole. Oh, yeah. Like there's there is an aspect of of that of like, you know, you guys are the pretending to be holier than now and yeah, minute, you know.

Gabe Lee 1:15:54

Yeah, we're all on the same sinking ship. It's okay.

Thomas Mooney 1:15:57

Yeah. One of the things I noticed on on both records that you do is you kind of leave both albums with a farewell a voice a goodbye. Obviously, like that's, you don't that's on purpose, but like what was the was there ever like I guess was it one of those things where you ended up doing that on the first record so you decided like hey, this song needs to be right here as well.

Gabe Lee 1:16:24

Yeah, yeah. It kind of kind of felt right I mean, and I did Happy Trails on the first record was definitely I think it was one of the first songs I probably written in that collection songs so it wasn't like a chronological thing or anything I just you know, it just made sense. And then and I as a listener, I I like that I like that fanatically as a listener myself just having me having the farewell at the end and blueish goodbye blues goodbye. I've been working on for quite a while but it didn't really take shape until closer to when we cut and you know, part of me was part of me was writing to to kV Ray and a lot of ways it was just like man what a what a short fleeting wonderful time we had is basically what the first verse is saying you know the now it's all got it that's all now it's all got to come to an end but hopefully I'll see you again and just trying to be like, you know, as comforting and sweet and and loving as as I can as a writer. So that's definitely one my favorite songs. I think on the record, you know, the pedal steel just sings on it and really makes it and it's like a completely it's like another melody line. It's like its own voice and a lot of the record so I the the farewell at the end of it you know might seem a little might seem a little corny, but I don't know a better place to you know, to put a goodbye song So

Thomas Mooney 1:18:00

yeah, absolutely. Obviously, like she she's, she has some harmonies on this record. And obviously you guys were I guess like not just tour or like not tour but like label

Gabe Lee 1:18:15

labelmate

Thomas Mooney 1:18:18

did you guys did you guys ever co write anything? Did you guys ever try any of that kind of thing?

Gabe Lee 1:18:23

We didn't know we didn't Yeah, we never had really an opportunity to sit down and write songs together between well she was in Nashville a lot that's been most of our time in Texas and in coming through Nashville we'd get her on the on the revival stage a lot which is somewhere that I play at. And we get up there every once in a while when she came through. We never had we never had a REIT set up but we didn't spend a good amount of time in studio together her coming in and cutting some stuff and you know me dropping in when they were cutting stuff just to say hi and hear what they're working on because I was a big fan of her of her latest record. And you know, it was just back back alluding back to the fact that you know, the little little operation we have going on here with at is is a little is a little family because you know it's not too big and we're all we're all really respectful and fans of each other's work Carson Jeffrey are one of the newest guys on interesting matters and and Jamie Lynn Wilson obviously is like a folk hero in Texas, right? So you know that that that kind of that kind of connection is is something that I definitely I would never take for granted. I've got I've got a great you know, home base of friends here in Nashville that I grew up with but I also have met all these awesome all this awesome community of songwriters and music people and in town after started starting to play out more. And then I know I know how important it is and what it means to have a kind With with folks that that are like minded and really former team, so I just, I'm just all about, you know that family aspect and treating others in your family with that same kind of respect. So we will, we will definitely go definitely always miss Kali but you know, as he said like, you just got to you just got to raise one up for your chemo for your fallen comrade and, and keep going and doing doing your thing because that's what they want. And that's what we that's what we've done. So she, she was we kept a bunch of her btvs on the on the record because it turned out great. And we brought a lot of like soul to it, which we're really happy about and you know,

hopefully,

hopefully her and her family and her you know, her kid, everyone's gonna be going to be all right. I know, it's not easy. And you know, I remember the day he called me about it. And it's, you know, it's just, it's just tragic, but But yeah, we're, you know, we're as amused as musicians and songwriters. You know, we have the ability to, you know, channel those feelings into songs and stuff. A lot of people don't have that outlet. A lot of people struggle with those those emotions in other way as as songwriters. You know, being inspired and staying inspired is part of our job. So that's probably the best I can do for that, you know?

Thomas Mooney 1:21:29

Yeah, yeah, there's definitely you know, that's for songwriters or writers in general artists, you you write you you paint, you sculpt, whatever that is, no matter what the inspiration is, and it's everyone else uses that to get to get past whatever hardships they they have, you know, that's absolutely right. You know, because, you know, most people they don't have the outlet to, to do to, for something to say what they mean, you know, so anyways, um,

Gabe Lee 1:22:06

absolutely, yeah. Staying staying inspired. So, so to keep others inspired, you know?

Thomas Mooney 1:22:12

Absolutely. So, yeah. It's been really, really great talking with you here. I think we we've running right about an hour 15 here, so

Gabe Lee 1:22:23

not bad. Yeah,

Thomas Mooney 1:22:25

it's been really great talking with you. We'll have to do it again sometime soon. All right. Thanks for listening to new slang. Be sure to check out Gabe Lee's farmland and Honky Tonk Cal go check out episode sponsor Smith, iron and design, the blue light live and Monday night lights.com. I'll see y'all next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai