065: Jamie Lin Wilson

Episode 065 is with singer-songwriter Jamie Lin Wilson. We talk about the songs and recording process of her latest album Jumping Over Rocks.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:06

Everyone, welcome to episode number 65 of new slang. I'm Thomas Mooney. And on this episode I am joined by singer songwriter Jamie Lin Wilson. She was in town last week opening up for American aquarium at blue light was a Saturday show was pretty amazing. You should probably know this by now. But if you've been living under a rock all year, Jamie released a new album called jumping of rocks. back, I guess early earlier this fall, it's her second solo, full length album. I've been champion of the album since I first started hearing songs from it. Here in there. You may remember, back when I was at wide open country, we mirrored Oklahoma stars over on there and had a little short interview. Now, it feels kind of like it begins earlier and earlier every year. magazines and websites and just people in general start releasing their their Top Albums of the year lists. I've been working on mine, as well, I'm not entirely finished with the final rankings or anything like that. But jumping over rocks is somewhere in that top five range for me. It's just an incredible album, top to bottom. But if I could pinpoint what makes the album for me, this really like three specific songs. It's Oklahoma stars, if I told you and essentially what is the title, track death and life, which I think is maybe the best song of the year, and on death and life, I'm not really sure what like the even the best line is because it's just a really great song like where lines pop out. And you you just I don't know, there's just something about it. The one that we talked about, mostly in this interview is a father always tries to treat a boy just like a man. But I also think there's a slide caught that that's that is there soaking up the sun and wondering how it feels to die. That is really, a really close second, if you will. That one right there kind of works more within the context of the song, you can't just necessarily just say that line. And it stands alone. Like the way a father always tries to treat a boy just like a man does. That when just right there you can, I don't know just stands up by itself. But obviously it works within the song as well. There's also this really cool thing that she does to in the song where she flips, there's these lines, I guess in the chorus, where she kind of flips the perspective of the old ones and the young ones, and how they think about life. Also, I did get a new condenser microphone that we used here, it's a little hot, so it kind of picks up the entire room more than previous equipment that I've been using. That means that me and Jamie right here are a lot more clear and bright. But also it means that some of the background noise is picked up. I'm not really sure how well you can hear other conversations, but you know, in the room you can while we're doing it, basically, you know you can just hear every trash can. And dumping advice and whatnot. We did it inside of blue light right before doors open. So of course there's that's just a slightly more busy time than we typically do interviews. But I mean, there was also a bunch of snow on the ground on Saturday. So we all kind of just got started doing the interviews and soundcheck and all that kind of stuff a little bit later than usual. It's not really that big of a deal. So yeah, but I don't know I just tell you what, what kind of was happening. So yeah, I'll be releasing the Top Albums. And just you know, other top things that I like this year. That will probably be coming next week. We should probably have a conversation over on your favorite social media minus on Twitter. Most I feel I don't know it's the most user friendly for having like a running dialogue. So follow me at underscore new slang on there. You can go find me on Facebook at New slang as well give us a like, obviously subscribe to the podcast. You can email me as well at New slang dot editors@gmail.com questions, comments, concerns, etc. So I say that every week but it's very important. Give the podcast a five star rating, write a review share it with your friends, family co workers whatnot. So yeah You know what time it is here. It's time to go on to the interview part. Here is Jamie Lynn Wilson.

Jamie Lin Wilson 5:13

You say hi to this is Griffin's first podcast. Oh, no. Okay.

Thomas Mooney 5:26

Yeah. Okay, so let's start off with him. First off, I mean, like, that's a really great everyone has a lot of people have kids, but like, you know, a lot of people don't bring kids on the road. How it's not, I feel it's not that difficult for you to

Jamie Lin Wilson 5:42

know what I mean. Well, this is my fourth round at baby on the road. So there's different challenges this time. As like, my first kid, I was in the Tricia is my first and second. So I had immediate help, you know, because there were four of us. So if I needed to run inside a store, or you know, it was fine. Get it out. There you go from there. He gets romatic coughs he coughs and then gets back every time. So, and now I have Jen sometimes we don't ride together like today we wrote separate because I have to go straight home tomorrow and she is but Austin's. So you know that logistics are different. The you know, I don't know. It's It's It's getting easier. This one hated traveling a lot. Oh, really? right at the beginning. And today was actually pretty pretty. It's kind of a breeze today, Bob, good job. But, yeah, you have to add an hour. That's my, my general rule is add an hour to the drive for every three hours of drive. So if it's a six hour drive, it will take eight, you know, right. So just everything. Just kind of have to work in time for baby and know when he's gonna have to eat and hopefully take naps don't bet on those. You know, right. What kind of gear do you need? What kind of he doesn't need toys and stuff yet, so it's fine.

Thomas Mooney 7:18

But I guess like you approach it as like, if is the if you could hire like the biggest diva in a band is like having a baby. Oh,

Jamie Lin Wilson 7:30

yeah, absolutely. Everything is on his whim. Like, except for I tried to do it to where it's really not like, Okay, I know you're gonna cry right now. But I also know that your diapers dry, and you've just eaten. And your seat is very comfortable. Right? So you're just mad. And you're just gonna have to deal with it until you decide to not be mad anymore. Yeah, we turn the radio and go, you know, and, and it seems you know, it works like now he held us for a few minutes. And then he's like, Oh, yeah, I have to sit back here for a while. I'll guess I'll go to sleep. But

Thomas Mooney 8:05

some of the other day you mentioned whatever. Everyone was starting to share the Spotify. Like these are my top five artists. I listened. You had like a lot of children's music. Oh, yeah. mention that. I've been thinking about that. It's like

Jamie Lin Wilson 8:19

it totally screwed up my my cool card your card.

Thomas Mooney 8:25

Do you get it's easy to me. It's easy to get those kids song stuck in your head?

Jamie Lin Wilson 8:31

Oh, for sure. Is

Thomas Mooney 8:32

that something like you? What do you do to one of them with that

Jamie Lin Wilson 8:36

when you go with it? You know, I don't really listen to everybody was everybody was sharing all their stuff. And it was like I listened to 68,000 minutes of music this year. And mine was like four was like you know, it was not I don't really listen to a whole lot of music I guess. Which is weird because I'm songwriter. But I listened to a lot of nothing. Yeah, in the car. And lately I've been listening to Sirius XM because I got it and also because I want to hear them play my song when it comes on. So I was into it all day. But it's but I don't you know, I just I'm not really a music listener in the car in general.

Thomas Mooney 9:21

Yeah, but the it's funny about the like the everyone sharing the Spotify stuff because you know it's

it's because Spotify made it available some obrah Yeah, it's like how cool my playlist is

for it's the where they it's like mine shows up and it's like we are the dinosaurs marching marching. There's like four cool artists and then they're like, sorry, not sorry on the fifth. You know, they're

Jamie Lin Wilson 9:47

like, Okay, cool. Look, Sam Hunt's on my list, but also Lori McKenna. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 9:53

I saw like on mine, I guess what I noticed on mine more than anything else, it was so much more work related than I realized it was going. Yeah. Because I started. When I was at wide open, we were doing so much 90s country stuff, right. So mine, I didn't have the indie credit, like a lot of Yeah, I listened to 110% more than

Jamie Lin Wilson 10:14

104. And my everybody else I saw was 111, where I started thinking they were making it up, like Spotify just throws in

Thomas Mooney 10:21

random. Mine was my high thing was contemporary country is what they classify because it was all 80s and 90s. Guys, and it's like, well, all that stuff is they're all signed to major labels. So

Jamie Lin Wilson 10:34

that's funny. Yeah, I I don't know, I think that those those social stuff, it's so smart that they make that available, because then all of a sudden, nobody would care if they didn't get an email about it.

Thomas Mooney 10:47

Yeah. And say, you know, hey, look how cool you are. But like, you know, it's also bad that up over there to all the ice going in. It's also great for the bands. Because like, obviously, I would say, I think there's more bands doing it now. Or they're checking in on their artists, Spotify stats,

Jamie Lin Wilson 11:07

well, that's also like, you can't fuss while we're doing a podcast. That's the rule.

Like, I looked at my top 20 songs, or whatever, and I'm in there, because I listen to my own song when it came out. Yeah. But you know, it's, you see, the

Thomas Mooney 11:33

I know a lot of people that when they look at, like, where their markets are building, right, that's such,

Jamie Lin Wilson 11:38

what's interesting is that I look at my markets, like, where my most extreme market is Dallas. I played Dallas the other day and got like, 30 people. Like, yeah, so what's up Dallas? I wonder like, you listen to my songs and you don't come to my shows. Come on Dallas. I wonder

Thomas Mooney 11:59

if like I'm in this bigger places, though. It's like our we have to drive further than I would want to write. Love, obviously not that big. So it's, you know, having any show. Like, okay, we'll go to the blue light. Sure. I'll go cactus. Sure. But like with with DFW, I feel like you're making plans versus just going right. I'm just making excuses for these people. I

Jamie Lin Wilson 12:27

know. But I mean, so so yeah. So I was so surprised. I was like out of San Antonio or Houston or worth. I mean, Fort Worth is.

Thomas Mooney 12:41

Yeah, this mic picks up.

Jamie Lin Wilson 12:42

Yeah. That's funny. You have headphones. I don't have headphones on. But yeah, it was like, but my shows in Dallas are not, you know, people don't come out. So. But I mean, who knows? Who knows the reasons there were. Also Dallas is huge. And a lot of the venues now are doing free shows. Yeah. So there's like, seven or eight shows happened in one time.

Thomas Mooney 13:07

Right? I've noticed that. Like, I think all the blue light shows have been free so far.

Jamie Lin Wilson 13:13

Yeah. So there was one that night that I played. I don't remember who's playing it though.

Thomas Mooney 13:20

I don't know. Who knows. We'll talk about the record the new record. With that new record out. I want to start out with talking about something that we talked about when we did an interview that was never published out. But it was about the the guy Clark missing coffee blues thing. Yeah. Because I mentioned how, like, the best part about that song is how he just makes you stare at the awkwardness.

Jamie Lin Wilson 13:45

It's so great. And it's like, it's like 30 minutes in one day of these people's awkward situation. And I just love how he could do that. Just like take little vignettes of like take a little moment and turn it into a song and that's something that I've looked to for writing myself you know, is like I just like you know, there's a few people that are really good at doing that. And he was one of them. JOHN prine is one of them, right?

Thomas Mooney 14:19

Just these little moments that I almost feel like they're I'm on either side. I don't know, I'm not sure if if they're if he's taking just mundane, just typical stuff and making it special or if these moments are

Jamie Lin Wilson 14:37

those things happen. Like you can make it out of anything you can make. You can turn walking into a hotel room into a you know into something you can turn like any sort of side glance at somebody can be a big deal, you know, and and I've thought I'm

getting mad at me. Thanks. But I've thought that before that, like, we as songwriters, and, you know, poets, like, and I don't consider myself really poetic, but poets do it too, like, we consider that like, all of our works, or our, from our point of view, or whatever, whenever, like, it's not just us that has that, that has those moments, you know, so you can take a day, you know, a conversation of a farmer and his wife, and turn it like that, guys, maybe not write that song, so I can write it. Right. You know,

Thomas Mooney 15:49

this goes to a conversation that me and my friend Jeff have had about like, how, you know, the whole being authentic thing. It's like, well, the, the coal miner, he may be like, way more authentic and know about the, quote unquote, coal mining why right how hard it is. But he's also not able to put he doesn't translate that into a way that is reasonable to listen to right, or understand or relate to, right. So I mean, there's that balance of knowing how to take those ideas, see those in

Jamie Lin Wilson 16:23

place, make them beautiful, you know, take the, the ordinary and make them extraordinary, like, that's a thing that is kind of a little. It's interesting, whenever, like I say it about whenever, whenever I get the chance that shows like really talk about songs, and about my life or whatever, like, I live in a small town where every, like, so many people have had the same experiences as me, because it's a plain normal, small town, life. But whenever I tell the stories about it, people laugh or they go, I remember that from whenever I was little, my grandma lived in a town like that. And whenever I went to visit her, I did this or I used to go, you know, so it's like, they're ordinary moments. But they're much bigger, right? Whenever you whenever you talk about them, and relate them to other people, then they go, Oh, that happened to me, too. You know, and then all of a sudden, they get entertainment out of it. Because it reminds them it's because it's something that's familiar to them, and then a soldier kind of away.

Thomas Mooney 17:28

Yeah, I think like that's the biggest thing that music does is the nostalgic. That's where you you know, you do make the real like, where the rose colored glasses of looking back and thinking, right, this was a whole lot cooler, when it probably was a whole lot more boring and hard, right? Yeah. That's one of the reasons why like I like my dad's book family is all from southeast Oklahoma. And so that's why I kind of like I've always really liked Turnpike zones remind me of places. When I actually remember going up there for Christmas. It was the most boring place in the entire universe.

Jamie Lin Wilson 18:07

And it's more like chalk topping.

Thomas Mooney 18:11

simple way more boring. Like even at that. It's like, you know, what do you tell a seven year old kid who there's no cable who like what, 14

Jamie Lin Wilson 18:21

right? Yeah. So it's I know, but you know, there's still you know, there's those moments and it's the scenes that are set that make you all those Okies have the same we can hear that

Thomas Mooney 18:42

no one like no one in here actually realizes like I'm hearing their conversation to you right? So you're gonna have to listen to this podcast like four times they hear all these different conversations see

Jamie Lin Wilson 18:54

out there in podcast world if you can paint the picture in your head of what's happening in this bar right now. Yeah, it's like those radio contests where they make a sound and guess what it is yes for Yeah. call in and say like that was jelly beans hitting the bottom of a vacuum cleaner or whatever. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 19:16

It's such a specific like, yeah, it's always reminds you of like the I guess there were more like a like the Halloween Carnival kind of stuff that like school or the church or something like that. It's like the guess how much money is in this jar? Right? Yeah. How many m&ms are in this jar? That kind of thing? Yeah, I was never really good at that. class. I don't know. I feel like they're getting louder their

Jamie Lin Wilson 19:51

purpose. Yeah, but we could just make you could do that as an entire podcast. She like just set a microphone in a bar as They're setting up and then as doors open Yeah. And then like that hour between like doors. See there's a lot of those. We're not open yet we open today. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 20:10

People don't want to stand out there in the in the cold whenever, I guess yeah, the doors are opening at a Yeah, now they're locking the doors. Yeah, lock. Yeah. My other idea on the podcast is just to get like a mic for my phone like a better mic. Yeah. And then just have it as like the loadout. We're loaning out. Yeah. Because talking about you'd have to warn us. Yeah, for sure. I just I feel like I where I got this idea was hanging out with the moon pies. Because like Mike is a whole lot more loose, obviously at that point, right. And then it was just like, oh, everyone is more. And the adrenaline's up. Everybody's feeling good. Yeah. Yeah. Just a lot more candid with her talk. Yeah. Just a lot more. fired up about that guy. Yeah. That guy in front row. Yeah. What's like the strangest thing you've seen on stage looking out this way that Where you go? Well, how is this going on? And no one else is really?

Jamie Lin Wilson 21:14

Oh, one time I was playing a house concert in Colorado. And this couple asked me to play. Like they requested a song because it was their wedding song or something. And then I started playing it. And I play with my eyes closed, you know? And open my eyes. And they were like, super making out in the back corner. And there were like, 20 people there. And they were I mean, it was like, tongues down throats like hands happening. Like at this house concert.

And then I just closed my eyes again and kept singing the song and yeah, just let it go. But

I didn't know y'all were gonna do that.

Thomas Mooney 21:57

Exactly. was weird. What song was it?

Jamie Lin Wilson 22:00

Ordinary people?

Thomas Mooney 22:02

like not even like a wedding song. I don't know how I would even I guess I would stop playing. away do that. Yeah. Oh,

Jamie Lin Wilson 22:14

I just closed him back up. The other day, somebody told me that they were gonna dance to the eyes for you at their wedding. I didn't have the heart to tell them that. Maybe they should listen to it a little bit closer. Yeah, first.

Thomas Mooney 22:28

Yeah. Well, I've seen this is you familiar with the the song? A life where we work out by flatland. Oh, yeah. Everyone's always like, that's my song. It's like, it's a horrible, sad song. That's uh, they're talking about the hypothetical guys. Not like, what happens, right? I don't know. Maybe. There's a lot of that kind of stuff.

Jamie Lin Wilson 22:48

Yeah. Well, somebody told me that they wanted me to keep writing upbeat, happy songs. Like just like heartache. Yeah. Look at that title there, right. I mean, it's fast. Yeah, I guess. But whatever. It's danceable. Sometimes, that's what counts for people is all that matters. It's great. I mean, I'm into that I try. I try for tempo.

Thomas Mooney 23:16

Yeah. The the song death in life. That's not tempo. I know. But like, that is a I remember when you were telling me the story about writing a song? Yeah. You were kind of like piecing songs. Song ideas together. Right? Can you can you go into that about how Yeah, came to be?

Jamie Lin Wilson 23:32

Well, that song was actually, I mean, I started working on it. It was, it's hard to say that sort of working on it, because I just knew that it was a song. Like I knew that the situation that I was looking at, deserved that treatment. But I thought that it was two separate songs, like one of them is a widow. The first verse is about a widow who was having a hard time with the permanence of her husband being gone. And so she didn't buy a gravestone because she just didn't want to see it. And that's kind of you know, that burn gasan you know, until it touches Oh, this stone, that thing. That's a song in itself, right? And, but I was trying to figure out a different way to write it, you know, a different perspective. And, and also, the second verse was a whole other thing that I started thinking about whenever my husband's father passed away. And he asked Roy, my husband to build him a coffin. For one, because he knew that he was he had cancer. So he was terminal and he was like, I want you to build me a box. Roy, of course, said that he would do it even though he's the worst thing for somebody to ask you to do. You know? But um, so when that day came And then Roy did that. It. I watched as it really helped him with the grieving process because he got to do one last thing for his dad and, and the whole poetic. I mean, that's just all poetic in itself. And so that's a song that practically writes itself just in the story. It's a movie, it's, uh, you know, well, that stuff's hard. whenever it's, like, so heavy, and it's so deep. And you have to do it justice. Like, that's, that's something that can't you know, how to do it, right. And I was, I just kind of let it marinate. And I didn't try to write it. Everyone's wrong, the line would come and I'd write it down. And then another line would come I write it down. But eventually, I figured out that those two songs were actually the same song that just deals with going on with life. And dealing with death. And, and how we all grieve in different ways and, and just life. Life goes on. Yeah, you know, and so I didn't figure it out until I was in the studio working on the record, like second day in, then I was like, Oh, this is how it goes. This is. And I finally figured out how all the pieces fit together. And it ended up being the title track. Yeah. So that's cool. The line about like, no.

Thomas Mooney 26:30

paraphrasing here, but like the line about how, you know, a father treats his son like a man. Yeah,

Jamie Lin Wilson 26:36

that is such a Well, that was the last line that came that was the line that that first verse, that first half of that second verse, was what I was missing, to kind of tie it all in. And then the last verse of the kids jumping over rocks, like that came at the end, too. But like that first half, like, the father always tries to treat a boy just like a man. Whenever that part came, I was like, Okay, I think I got it. I think I tie him in. Right. And, and gave it its gave it the treatment that it needed. You know, like the whole story of, of like, No, son, you this is your gonna, like, this is your responsibility. Yeah, you know, and yeah, I don't know. I'm lucky that that one that floated down at the right time.

Thomas Mooney 27:27

That line right there is when I first heard it, I thought of, like me and my dad. And it sounds like it's going to be in a negative way. But like, I feel like my dad was always hard on me. But like, that's but he should be everybody's. Everybody's dad's hard on them if they are good dad, but you want them to be

Jamie Lin Wilson 27:49

able to take somebody being hard on them. Yeah, you can't. You know, like, that's it. That's a dad's job. Like, that's the parents job is to raise your children to be independent, strong. People who can handle disappointment. Yeah. And that's, uh, you know, it's, that's kind of a negative thing to say, probably, you know, so I'm not saying parents have to be mean to their kids. Right. But they have to be realistic with their kids. And teach them that it's not all, you know, roses, right.

Thomas Mooney 28:21

I see. So many people say, you know, like, Oh, this is my best friend, my mom or you know, my dad. And I'm like, Yeah, my dad, we still don't get along. Yeah, like, it's okay. It's fine. Like, yeah.

Jamie Lin Wilson 28:33

I mean, I love my mom, and I love my dad, and they are still my parents, right? Like, I love it. When my mom comes on the road with the kids, like, she'll come and help me and, and we have a great time. And it's a lot of fun. My dad came to, to Idaho with me, like a month ago, to help with the baby. And that was great. But he's still my dad. Like, I still don't like, Hey, Dad, let's go have beers. You know, like, it's like, Okay, can I have a drink? And then come back, and then I'll be you know, he's fine. I'm a grown up and he knows that I'm a grown up and yeah. And, but I still feel like, I'm going to go, I tell them what I'm going to do. And,

Thomas Mooney 29:18

yeah, I, I'll put it this way. I would rather my dad have been hard on me. My entire life that at some point, like him still treating me like a child. Right? 30 years.

Jamie Lin Wilson 29:33

Right? Well, that's their job is to teach you like to treat you older than you are so that you act so that you gain responsibility. And you figure out, you know, oh, I do I can do this. You know, I felt like the other day, I have a four year old told me to go fix his bed. And he was like, but I don't know how to fix my bed. You know, he's just like, I need help. And just what Last thing that I don't know how to fix, but still, it's still the hardest thing in the world telling. Yeah. And I was like, wait, but the other day you were at gummies house, which is my mom. It's like you're at Tommy's house and you fixed the bed. There. Remember, you fixed it, and he was like, Oh, yeah. And then all of a sudden, he could do anything. You know, he was like, Yeah, I can do it. Okay, I forgot I did that. You know, he went, he fix his bed. And then he told me that maybe he's gonna be a professional bed fixer. That can be his job. And then Roy's like, you're not working in hotels, buddy. Like, Oh, great. Our four year old was? Yeah, yeah, go fix beds for a living like, it's okay. He's gonna come up with a million different jobs between now and when he needs a job. It see that, but you're gonna be able to hold on to that. Rob right there. Yeah. But every day now I go to picture bed. He's like, yeah, you know. He's four. He probably shouldn't be able to fix his bed. I don't know. But and it's a horrible job. But he does it and it's perfect. Yeah, you know, it's not straight. And it's but the blankets on the bed and the pillows are up there. And night.

Thomas Mooney 31:09

You have a story to tell. Is this first serious? Yeah. Oh, he struggled to be a bed fixer bed maker. That's a there's a. I mentioned one time that I wanted to sell apples on the side of the road. Yeah. And that turns in junk still. So

Jamie Lin Wilson 31:29

I would love to sell apples on that's actually my retirement plan.

Thomas Mooney 31:32

You see, like, while you're just kind of like, That does not sound great. And then at some point, it turns back to Yeah, actually, that's not

Jamie Lin Wilson 31:38

too bad. I'm gonna have a camper on the back of my truck to be a window unit back there. We sit back there with my guitar and sell watermelons and apples on side of the road. All day long. That's my retirement plan. fruit stand. Yeah, it has been for like, the last 20 years. Okay. So record still, there are two? Totally I mean, if I could I guess, I'm just saying, Yeah, if I if I have I'm like, whenever I came up with that plan, I didn't really have. So the records in the music. The music selling part never has been thought but yeah. He's quite happy now. With his friends in

Thomas Mooney 32:23

the going back to the record the I mentioned this to you when we did that interview. I still probably should just put it on the slide. Because it was great. But I told you how the song If I told you the first time I heard it was with Charlie stout. No, no, were actually Oh, yeah, we're driving that we're on a trip and he just text it to him. And so he played it. And that was not last year. Oh, was it? I guess? 2017 16 something like that. Yeah. But I played it two or three times in a row. And I thought that was like, I it was one of those like, I need, I need that. Now. I need that. So to me, that's just like a really, really great song. And I think it's such a intimate, quiet moment that is hard for a lot of people to get into without stumbling. Right, you know what I mean?

Jamie Lin Wilson 33:23

Yeah, most of that song came out, all at the same time. And I had, I go through times, where I don't write anything for months. I mean, it's been a year before where I don't write at all. And I was kind of in one of those little spots where like, I hadn't really done anything. And, and, and then Courtney sent me this song that I don't know, I listened to it. And it was short. And I remember thinking that it wasn't like, I remember thinking, not that it wasn't complete, but that there was maybe a second part to it. And I think it was like, if that's like, I'd like to do this I like to do that. You know, with someone if that someone were you? It was like I think that that was like the gist of it. And so then so I listened to it and for some reason it just made you want to write sometimes that happens you listen to the song It makes you wonder, right, you know, and so that night, I went outside on a porch and and I just started playing those fingerpicking that melody and and I wrote most of that song sitting out there by myself in the dark. And so that's kind of where a lot of that comes from. Oh, sitting in the dark on my porch, you know, in the dark. I feel loneliness and sad. Like, because I was sitting there swinging in the dark. Looking around. Um, you know, like, just with that come in and, and I didn't really know how that song is gonna end cuz I didn't really know what it I didn't know. Right. And so I just kept for like that next day kind of singing in my head and took a couple showers. So that's what I do whenever I need to clear my head, you know, right and their shower thoughts. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it really in a week in depth in life, we're like five shower songs in the studio time. But this thought like I was in the shower and I just go, would you wish you to know? That's the end like that's it like the last line came before the rest of the last verse. And I was like, hey, how do I get there? Right? How do I get to would you wish you didn't know? You know, kind of worked backwards from there in and figured it out. And I kind of use that trick a few times, like where you repeat the first like at the end of the last verse starts out the same as the first verse, right? So happened it was written already decided to get to it but like a reprise? I guess?

Thomas Mooney 36:17

You you? I think okay. I think a lot of people think that songs are written in a linear fashion, more times than not, how often does it come where you have that middle part or that? You just know, there's that line, but you're not really sure where it goes? Where it's going?

Jamie Lin Wilson 36:36

Sometimes? Well, it happens. But you have to let it happen. Because sometimes even I, as I'm writing it will go No, this came next. I thought of this next so it goes here. Whenever if you sit there and editing process, you can go What if that's actually the first line? Or what if this is actually the first line? Or what if this is the last line, you know, like then if you give yourself that grace to to rearrange things, sometimes it turns a song around, you know, and sometimes it makes it really mean something different than it did before?

Thomas Mooney 37:17

Is it almost like I know a lot of people as they're writing songs and growing or experience, they talked about the editing process being way more important than the, I guess like the inspiration point, right? Is that almost like two different brains, two different thoughts process like two rounds of

Jamie Lin Wilson 37:36

if I approach finish up, if I've finished a song, then I will go through it. And make sure that every word is necessary. Sometimes I'll have too many ands or buts or because or whatever, whenever those things don't really need to be in there, you can leave those up to the listener to put in. So I'll take those kinds of things out and see what it sounds like, without them. And I'll see if maybe there's a sweeter way to say something or, or more like more alliteration or, you know, I'll kind of that's whenever I'll go in and maybe try for some word play with sounds. But most of the time, if something if I consider something finished, like it's minimal editing after that, like as I'm going through writing the verses and the choruses, I'll go through and go. No, no, no, no, no, I hate it. Stop. And then I'll stop until I feel like you have more words.

Thomas Mooney 38:39

Are you a pin pad person that you have to wear?

Jamie Lin Wilson 38:43

Yeah, yeah, I can't really do the computer, the typing thing yet. And really, I do it in my head first. I'll do a whole vert like, oh, like if I'm co writing. I'm not the one writing. Yeah. Like, I'm the one with the guitar, figuring out what I want to say in my head first, and then writing the complete thought down after it's done. So there's not everybody's always like, save everything you ever write, you know, like, well, everything I ever write down is usually the thing that's going to be sung. Yeah. So I don't have a lot of extra.

Thomas Mooney 39:19

I guess a couple of weeks ago, I did a pod with Brandon Adams and Ross Cooper. Yeah. And I don't know if they mentioned it on the podcast. But Brandon said not until recently, that he never wrote any of his lyrics down. Because like, he felt like it was a if he didn't if they weren't good enough to remember that, like they weren't good enough to be but like Ross is kind of like on the other end, like I know, he does like work tapes like right, every time something even sparks. Alright, so

we're about to open the door. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right, fine. Nope. We're gonna just tell them to No. Okay, yeah

Jamie Lin Wilson 40:01

as part of your podcast, you know where you open the doors and then you have the mic run and then you listen to people come in. Yeah. Well thank you for coming on. Course still talk

Transcribed by https://otter.ai