052: Sam Morrow
Episode 052 is with LA by way of Houston songwriter Sam Morrow. We talk about moving out to California, songwriting, country music and rock & roll, Little Feat, and his latest album, Concrete and Mud.
Interview Transcript
Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.
Thomas Mooney 0:04
Everyone, welcome to episode number 52 of the new slang podcast. I'm Thomas Mooney. And on this week's episode, we're joined by singer songwriter, Sam Morrow. Sam just recently released a new record called concrete and mud. If you're into the into, like 70s country kind of stuff kind of goes from like, truck driver music to little feet influenced country grooves, rock and roll kind of stuff. You're gonna probably enjoy this record on this episode. We really do talk a lot about the record. But what we ended up talking a lot more about. And this is like one of my favorite things is whenever you're talking to guys about their thoughts on the various things that are happening within the music scene, kind of test out some theories, if you will, or not necessarily test out but talk about theories and their thoughts overall on why certain people have success. And yeah, I don't know, you just listen to it in the episode. Sam is like a he's he just really has some really great opinions and insight on a whole lot of this stuff. isn't afraid to share his opinion. So that's a lot of fun. And, yeah, anyways, um, if you haven't already, you know, liked or subscribe to the new slang podcast go to do so. leave us a review. And follow us on all the social media stuff. You can find me at underscore, underscore new slang, on Twitter, in soap and on Instagram. And then go on to Facebook and just search for new slang. Give us a like, and you won't miss any new podcasts or anything like that. Anything else we publish? And yeah, here's the conversation with Sam Morrow. My good. Yeah, you sound good over here. I'm probably not gonna wear these the whole time, but always like to get a good gauge. So you got this new record out? concrete in mud?
Yeah, like what, uh,
I guess like, what went into making this record? Like how, like, what were you What did you set out to say with this record that you wanted to just like a general kind of
Sam Morrow 2:49
I you know, I've kind of just learned a lot about you know, the direction that I wanted to take with my music in the last like two and a half years since my last record came out. And you know, a lot a lot of my own stuff is kind of sad bastard kind of stuff and but that's not really who I am, you know, you know, as as my first record, I was like, just getting sober and feel all weird and, you know, trying to get all that bullshit out. And but now, you know, I'm just sort of live in life and I'm happy and so I wanted to sort of reflect that in my music and, and, and also like, I've always sort of had this background of a funk in the stuff that I listened to like groove based stuff and so and rock and roll and I kind of wanted to explore that a little bit more you know, and and I also didn't want to just make like a country record, you know, because everyone in their mom's doing that these guys you know, you there's definitely some country tunes on the record and it's definitely influenced by it and a lot of places but it's, I mean, call it what you want, but it's not really that
Thomas Mooney 4:08
you know, I know what you mean. I love it. I don't really love it but I love how like country and like Americana it's just like that catch all Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it's it's that's that's how you describe people with music in five seconds. You know what exactly yeah, I mean, I say it's always harder to see be like, Okay, well, let's just sit down and actually describe what this music is. It's gonna be a half hour, right? Yeah.
Sam Morrow 4:33
Yeah, and I say I say I told you I play country music just because no one knows what the fuck Americana is the lay person you know, like, obviously you I do but most people that just listen to the radio. They don't know what that is. And then when I say country, I kind of have to explain that it's not the kind of country that you hear on the radio also. Yes. It's not like I don't know. I saw I'm still trying if you think of a good way to express your music, please let me know.
Thomas Mooney 4:59
Yeah. Well, I mean, there is that aspect of like the kind of like the that California country kind of country rock stuff. But then on this record, there's a whole lot of the kind of like the that Southern version of that little feat kind of Yeah. Yeah, like what kind of, how did you decide to, like start blending those kind of sounds, if you will together. Um,
Sam Morrow 5:29
you know, I think that this record, I, I, you know, this is my third record, and I just kind of had experience, I've finally kind of had experience in the studio I experienced in production and like, the recording process and, and combine that with, like, I kind of stopped giving a fuck about, you know, what, you know, I don't want to say what others thought of me, but that's kind of a blanket statement, but I just wanted to make what I liked, you know, like, just blend it all together and, and see what happens, you know. And there is like, you know, being from Texas, you know, I do have like those Southern roots of, you know, ZZ Top, and you know, little feets actually a California band, but they sound like, you're loving the South. Yeah. And Skinner is another big influence for me. And so I just wanted to like, like I said, I didn't want to make a country record, and, but I kind of play a lot of country tunes. And then I wanted to incorporate like this funk, rock and roll. And the last song is just kind of straight up folk, you know, kind of echoed my first my first record a little bit, you know, so I just wanted this to be just like a pile of whatever I have creatively, you know, right. And, you know, luckily, it all kind of mixed well together and made sense, you know, but I wasn't really trying for it to make sense going into it. I mean, there's just kind of some way, we ended up with sort of a consistent strain throughout the whole thing. And it just sort of worked out, you know,
Thomas Mooney 7:16
yeah, I think like, what, what I kind of hear throughout it is like this little bit of this warm, vintage kind of sound like this, for lack of a better term, like this little bit of a buzz, you know, what I mean? It's like a warm buzz to it, that I think is kind of a, it reminds you of a whole lot of the old records of the 70s and stuff,
Sam Morrow 7:37
right? Yeah, yes, that's, that's sort of what we wanted production wise, you know, I, I spend a lot more time in the mixing process to you know, because that's kind of where that happens a lot of the time, you know, like, we caught we did very few overdubs on this record, we recorded like, pretty much all of it live. So that helps, absolutely, kind of getting that old school sort of 70 sound, you know, but the mixing is important to, you know, post stuff is important for that sound, too, you know,
Thomas Mooney 8:09
yeah. Like, how big of a period are the songs from, I always like to try and gauge like, Are these all kind of from like, a short, little rapid period? Or is there some, like really old songs, and some,
Sam Morrow 8:24
not really, any old ones, I'd say they're all from the past, like, two and a half years since my last record, some of them from, like, right after my last record came out. And some one of them we wrote in the studio, you know, like, I came in with just a lick, and I'm around a bunch of good players, and we just kind of wrote it together, you know, so it just kind of spanned that whole, two and a half years of my life, which, you know, the last like, two years of my life, or I'd say 2016. And the beginning of 2017 was really hectic for me, you know, just the life stuff, you know, which is always good for writing, you know, right. So
lyrically, a lot of that came from that, you know, I kind of changed my writing process a little bit.
This time around, and since, since the songs are like more groove based, sometimes I'll just start out with a groove. And right around that, you know, when in the past, I start out with a melody and right around that, you know, so it's a little different process, I guess, the last the last couple records.
Thomas Mooney 9:40
I always like to what I find fascinating, especially whenever you have like a, an artist that has, like, such a rich full sound, is if they think of like that final product when they're first stepping out, like in and writing that song. You know what I mean? Or does it it? Does they Everything kind of come from a either like a piano or acoustic guitar bass, you know what I mean? And it's strange how something that can be so sparse, morphed into what you know.
Sam Morrow 10:14
Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I think this record I was when writing the songs, obviously, I was just writing them on acoustic guitar and, but I think that I was super sensitive and conscious to what it was going to sound like later and what I what I wanted it to sound like later, you know, and I could hear in my head, what I wanted the band to sound like, this is a is a band record, you know, I sat down the other day, cuz, you know, I got some solo shows coming up. And
I kind of had to, like, revisit the songs acoustically, you know, and make them their own thing acoustically because a lot of them don't translate exactly back to just an acoustic guitar, you know,
Thomas Mooney 11:02
it's like that deep, like, deconstructing process.
Sam Morrow 11:05
Exactly. Yeah. Which, normally for me, it's the opposite where I have to go in and like, produce and, you know, come up with like, band arrangements. But that's kind of where I started, the songwriting process had just been kind of backwards. I've everything's upside down. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 11:26
You've been spending time out in LA, right? Yeah. I guess what, you're kind of your basis now. Yeah. Yeah. I've been out there for about about seven years now. How'd you get out there?
Sam Morrow 11:42
I just kind of needed to change the scene. As I was talking about I got I got so real, like seven years ago, and I just needed to get out of Houston, Austin, you know, for a little while, and I just haven't left yet. You know, I think eventually I'll end up back in Texas. But you know, right now, I got something going on out there. And, you know, I've I've, I've got friends out there and right, I got a girl out there. So I just haven't left yet. That's why I say it's expensive as hell. And you know, most people don't like you know, I just haven't left you know, so it's and there's you know, there's like, sort of the revival of like an Americana like California country kind of community out there. That it's kind of nice to be a part of something that's like, I don't know if grassroots is the right word to say for that. But some kind of starting out there. You know, it's kind of a cool thing. You know, I can stand out a little bit more rather than going to Nashville. I'm just some other white guy with a guitar. Natural guy. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. See me and like I said, I just haven't left yet. You know? Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 13:00
I don't know. I've always kind of been interested in what like la life is and like, how, what that music scene is because so many of our favorite records were recorded out there. Yeah, you also really don't ever think of there being like a an original sound familiar? if you will? Yeah. Well, it's just everyone's just kind of a transplant right? Bringing your own sound. Yeah, and then it kind of morphed into something but you like you really don't ever think of like what is your typical la band? That's like from LA other than like Red Hot Chili Peppers or
Sam Morrow 13:38
Yeah, like Metallica? Yeah, but I don't even the California country thing kind of like I still don't fully I don't know if anyone fully understands like what that is. Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of like oh, that's that's country from California. You know, it's California country. I'm like well, I mean, does it have like a specific sound or you know, I
Thomas Mooney 13:59
think like there's just like that desert kind of feel to it.
Sam Morrow 14:04
Yeah. Yeah, I mean like I get the birds Flying Burrito Brothers you know grand Parsons I mean, I get the sound of all that well, no, it's it's it's just another one of those sort of like blanket terms like Americana or country it's just kind of easy to throw a label at something I guess. But call it what you want as long as you're buying the record you know?
Thomas Mooney 14:31
Yeah. What I don't know I do I hear like a little bit of those those like I said those warm textures. Yeah. So like, that's why I kind of think about is like that aspect. Right. But then there's also like the something that grand Parsons kind of did was the like the truck driver kind of song or you know, to me Yeah, and like you got a couple of truck driver ish
Sam Morrow 14:54
shows on here. Yeah. Which is funny that you say that because those songs I kind of wrote with Billy Joe shaver and Ryan Parsons, you know? Well, except for skinny Elvis is kind of like I wanted to have like, at least production wise like sort of a Las Vegas kind of vibe so that when I did sort of go grand Parsons, but like for good old days, my reference was, you know, Georgia on a fast train. Yeah, I wanted to sort of have that sort of sound you know, which I guess is a Texas country kind of thing. You know.
Thomas Mooney 15:36
It's always it's the thing about Texas country, though, too is like, that's also a blanket term because Texas country and think 99% of people are gonna think Pat green, Randy Rogers. Like you also say Texas country and really mean more like, the Billy Joe Shavers. And
Sam Morrow 15:51
yeah, I've got Clark's or even George Strait. Yeah, like a as a blanket term, man. Like, those guys don't really sound alike. But he can kind of put them all under that umbrella. You know, I
Thomas Mooney 16:04
was trying to use Texas music to even make it even more broad. just confuse people even more. Yeah, but I don't know. I always love the, when you see it on Spotify a whole lot when people are like, oh, check out my playlist. They'll have it like, sexist country, and it'll be everything from Randy Rogers to like, Jonathan Tyler.
Sam Morrow 16:25
Yeah, Quaker city. nighthawks. To ensure not country at all. Yeah, just mute Texas music we fit that better. And yeah.
Thomas Mooney 16:37
I know, like, a few things that you've talked about. You've mentioned, little fee. I never really got into them until here in like Quaker city. nighthawks talk about them? Yeah. What, uh, I guess like, I've, I'm still a novice at what they wet their music, but like, what is it about that sound, but it's been that attracts you to kind of like the
Sam Morrow 17:01
I think the way the Lord George, like structured songs is so unique, you know, like, there's songs like cold, cold cold. That, like, it's hard to even find the one of that song, you know, it's, he used to my friend, my guitar player that he plays a lot of slide on the record, he lives in Topanga Canyon, which is where there's very low lived and a lot of the guys and little feet lived. He said lo used to have this like little beat machine. And that's kind of what he would use to write to, but he would basically like switch the one with the two and then use the two is the one and just to sort of like turn stuff on its head, you know, and make, you know, just like American music or, you know, American rock and roll or American country. Just make it a little bit funkier a little bit weird or take a lot of chances, you know, which is really what I set out to do on this record, you know, like, putting Wurlitzer is through phaser pedals and you know, doing weird stuff like that. So I think that's kind of what attracted me to him. Enemies just got a badass voice and he's a killer slide player. And you know, he's just got like, the classic rock and roll story where he like, was just a crazy motherfucker and overdosed on cocaine, you know? For some reason, like, I idolized those kinds of people I don't know man just listening to their records. It just was kind of it just hit me I didn't really listen to them till like five or six years ago, you know, I had heard like willen and, and Dixie chicken. But really to like dive into their records is like five or six years ago, and it just sort of hit me in a way that like, I almost felt like I hadn't heard anything like that before, you know? So yeah, man, I mean, dive deep into the records, man. Yeah, I like on vinyl too.
Thomas Mooney 19:26
I've got a few on vinyl. I have a what's your live record called? They've got like one red one.
Sam Morrow 19:33
Yeah. I'm the worst with record names. Man. I know what you're talking about. My favorites are like the first three after the third one with JC chicken on it. The production gets a little weird and I don't know like they're trying to go kind of 80s ish. Oh, no, it gets it gets a little too processed. You know? Like sanland shoes and feet though family now you know those are those are the best man.
Thomas Mooney 20:05
Yeah, it's always interesting to see. When you when you take an artist's discography what I find interesting at least is that we're at an age where we can just look at everyone's discography at one time, not in the moment. And you think, like, oh, why did was there change and like, trying to, like, find what it was in the overall music scene that made that change happen, or you see a whole lot of that stuff with, with the 80s. As far as like, the Terminator. He's, like, early stuff being influenced by disco. And like, just the way records were being produced. And like, then you see another shift at the, like, the hair metal fad. Yeah. And it's like, it's weird whenever these long established bands chase the fad, if you will,
Sam Morrow 20:58
right. Yeah, I was just talking about that. Like, with my drummer, on the way we're driving out to Texas, like ZZ Top is one of my favorite bands. And, like, I've listened to them since day one of my life's not there. Yeah. And, like, we were talking about how, like, for a while there, I mean, they're, they're newer records are weird. You know, they're, they're kinda like they're really like, pandering to like the Kid Rock base, you know, like, almost like, like, super processed and like, almost like rapping. It's bizarre, but specifically the 80s like the eliminator record, you know, like they use they start using all these scents and you know, really processed vocals and stuff like that. It's nothing like you know, trace own race or, you know, Jesus just left Chicago or anything like that, you know? Or I can't think of the name of that. Is it Rio Grande?
Thomas Mooney 22:01
I can't think it's Rio Grande. Yeah, it may be much
Sam Morrow 22:04
yeah, I think it's Rio Grande mud anyways, like, once they hit eliminator it starts to like, get a little weird with and the solder is still gray like yeah, lay eggs and
what's I can't I can't think of an example it Yeah, legs with that sort of, like pulsating scent in there. Which is it's cool. But it's it chases that whole fad. You know, they're obviously sort of pandering a little bit, you know, yeah,
Thomas Mooney 22:38
there's a, like, I'm really horrible at all, like the music terms and stuff like that. As far as like the, the technical side, but I was watching this video on on I think it was Vox and they were talking about the gated reverb for drums being Oh, yeah, come back. Yeah. And like how I just shame they used is so big in the 80s. Like everything from Springsteen to Genesis to like Michael Jackson to like, it just basically every band. Yeah. And like, what they were talking about was like, how, basically they overused it. And so but it did not happen during like the entire 90s and rarely happened in the early 2000s. But then, like, you can hear it on some new stuff now. And that's whenever you go like any song that you go, Oh, that's kind of sounds 80s it's like 99.9% gonna be that gated reverb. Right. Exactly. And that's, I don't know, I think that's a It feels like a dated sound. But it also I kind of like it I mean, but I don't want like every damn pop.
Sam Morrow 23:43
It's a certain thing. You know, it's its own thing. You know? Yeah. I I have always said like, whenever I'm revisiting like 90s country records like Alan Jackson or George Strait, or whatever, like, I wish that we could just like get a hold of those masters and mix them like you would mix a song today, you know? Not like not like the 90s country mix that sometimes I like. I just can't stand sometimes. You know, it just seems like so cheesy. And it has some of that gated reverb on the drums and like really big obnoxious snares and Toms and yeah, I feel like those songs be so much cooler if they just got remixed and revisited you know, because they're all great songs, you know?
Thomas Mooney 24:37
Yeah, one of the songs that I think is one of those where you go, you revisit it today. And you go that that age well, at all is an Indian outlaw by Tim Brown. He like that is like really a racist song. And like in the mid 90s is like eight year old kid you're like, this is awesome. And then he like, looked back and gone. That's pretty good. It's probably a good thing. Like he's
Sam Morrow 25:05
not playing that right now. Yeah. But yeah, there's tons of songs like that man. That's like, that's more of like a content. Right? Not age well, but you know there's that 90s production just sometimes drives me insane. Sometimes I won't listen to like 90s country records just because just like,
Thomas Mooney 25:28
see, I like the 90s What bothers me more is the 80s country. That kind of was like, just soft rock. Just Yeah. Disguised as 80s country. Sure.
Sam Morrow 25:40
That's kind of like more where I guess we're definitely weird to you know? Oh, no, I can't say that. I don't like 90s country, but sometimes, like, I just listen to a song just because like, I'm like, let me remix this for you. And then I'll just listen to it. Just me. or anyone else for me. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 26:00
See, for me like the 80s would be like the Ronnie millsaps Sure. Even some of the Alabama stuff I'm going. That's just a soft rock that's like yacht rock. Right? Yeah, no, I get that I get that. Just one of those things where
Sam Morrow 26:14
I don't really listen to a lot of that stuff. So I don't really
Thomas Mooney 26:17
know. I know what you mean. Like, because a lot of this is more just based off of just being a journalist and having a Yeah, just listening to like, Oh, yeah, I want to go and like, go down that rabbit hole and then go on. Like, what is what was wrong with it? Like, right? Yeah. But I don't know. For some reason people do love 80s country a whole lot. And I'm like, Hey, man, you know, like, on the other end, though, there is like some of the, like Rodney Kraus stuff from the ad set. Yes. Sound good. Yeah, it does. You can tell that it's from the 80s. But like, it sounds good.
Sam Morrow 26:56
He kind of always stayed true to the song. You know, he, he's never been very like, Frou Frou or you know, like, a lot of like, post tricks or anything like that. You know, he's just kind of been a songwriter that like, the songs There's a song You know, I mean, he's one of the he's one of the best Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 27:18
We're talking about the the whole chasing fad the kind of thing something that's interesting too, is if you look at like the the greats like the the Willie Nelson's, or like the Johnny cashes, sometimes they even chase those fads. Oh, yeah. Like
Sam Morrow 27:37
I mean, Willie Nelson did a song with Snoop Dogg. Exactly. And his, his newer stuff. I shouldn't be like talking shit about podcasts. I'm not talking shit about him. But, you know, he's old now. So like, you know, he can't really sing in key as well. Like his guitar playing is kind of he has trouble saying and rhythm and stuff. So a lot of his new records like, you can tell sounds like t pain on some of them, you know, with all the auto tune and stuff, you know, but I mean, I love the shit out of Willie, but I don't know if that's probably a little off topic. He's not really chasing a fad there. He's just trying to fix Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 28:14
well, what I'm talking about is like the we had like the the reggae record. Oh, yeah. Like he did have like, he's had a couple of one offs, where it's like, Oh, that's interesting. Like, I don't know, he's, well, he's
Sam Morrow 28:30
also Willie Nelson. He's kind of whatever the fuck I want. Yeah, if I want to make a reggae song, I'll make a reggae song. And yeah, it doesn't matter. You know?
Thomas Mooney 28:41
Another dude you kind of i would i would never I don't know maybe saying chasing the fads wrong. Maybe like being lost in their careers? Yeah, is a is like Waylon Jennings in the 80s. also kind of like he's after the outlaw thing. And it's like, you can't be an outlaw for fucking ever. And like, what does it outlaw even mean? Yeah, all that kind of stuff. And kind of just not knowing what to do. I think like Merle Haggard had a little bit of that. But what's interesting is seeing some of those guys make it past that point. Yeah. And then make like the old man record. Yeah. And like actually have something to say at old age. Yeah. You know, and, of course, like, probably the best of that is like just the American recording stuff by ash.
Sam Morrow 29:26
Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely, man. I mean, yeah, I think everyone goes through their phases. And, like, if you don't go through phases, you're not like listening to yourself creatively, you know? I mean, we can't really sit here and like, judge their intentions, you know, I mean, we can but you know, I guess we don't really know what's going what was exactly going through their head, but I mean, that's that's a fair guess. Yeah, they kind of reached a point where the whole outlaw thing was just It's kind of come back now the whole outlaw thing, like I've even been called an outlaw by Rolling Stone called me and all the other day like, I was like, What does that even mean? Like, you know? Can you just call people that now? Like, does that just mean that I'm, I don't play me on Country radio like yeah, you know, they play on an outlaw country and not Country radio like is that what that means? You know,
Thomas Mooney 30:26
I think what it is but yeah I don't know like I like to believe it's more that you went to Nashville and like went to like the big executives and just give them a middle finger and then walked out and later they were like,
Sam Morrow 30:43
I had a dream about that once but I didn't do it for Yeah, no, I mean, I don't know. Like, I definitely kind of have a I'm definitely not the like, pretty boy type and I definitely have like sort of a battered pass and stuff, you know, so maybe that's why or maybe it's doesn't go as deep as that, you know, maybe it's just a way for presses. B press.
Thomas Mooney 31:11
I think so. Yeah. I mean, like the revival, if you will, is just out of the the surgical stuff. Right, right. Yeah, Stapleton surgical is well, but I wouldn't ever really, you don't really characterize those guys is like, no, they've been outlaws.
Sam Morrow 31:25
Yeah, they're two guys with kids and families and just kind of, but they not less less Stapleton, but I mean, certainly definitely given the middle finger to Country, Country establishment and that, but Stapleton is kind of embraced it. You know, he's kind of like, bridging the gap a little bit, you know? And he's, he's not really one to I mean, I listened to him on Joe Rogan's podcast like, I don't know, a couple months ago or something like that. And he's, he's a guy that just kind of tells the line, you know, like, he's not gonna say something that's gonna get him in trouble. Right? You know, he's really conscious of what he says, you know, cuz he knows. He knows his base, you know, he knows that his base is like people like me, who doesn't give a fuck, but more importantly, you know, Country radio folks that give ultimate fucks. You know? He's got to be careful with what he says, you know, right. He's smart. I mean, he's protecting his career. But yeah, he's not an outlaw, though. Do
Thomas Mooney 32:35
you know what I love about that is like, when he burst onto the scene as a solo artist. Yeah, I was like, the background of, hey, this guy has been in all these bands. He's written a whole lot of number one hits he's written over, he's gotten over 100 cuts on by national acts, yada, yada, yada. And then, like, people listen to him, and they're like, Holy fuck, this is what country music needs, not any of that shit by and then like, just writes most of that shit. And then it's like, oh, he actually wrote like, a lot of those songs are like citing as being shitty songs.
Sam Morrow 33:11
Right? And, but I also, like, part of me thinks that he's such a good writer, that he can just sort of like, write about anything. I think that's mean. Like, he probably was like, Oh, I'm gonna write a song that's gonna make a bunch of money today. And he wrote that, like a Luke Bryan song, or was he like, grabbed this beer or something like that? Or? I don't know. I, I saw like, I think the wide open country did like a video the other day of like, songs you didn't know Chris Stapleton wrote, which I kind of did know, but I guess the lay person doesn't know. But yeah, it was, you know, all those Country radio dudes. You know.
Thomas Mooney 33:53
I think part of part of that, too, is the is just production. Yeah. And I think really deep down like 90% of the people don't know the difference between like, an okay, lyric, or an average lyric. And it really fucking great lyric. Yeah. You mean? Like he just kind of like, everything. You can point out the bad lyrics. You can't point out just the average stuff. Sure. differentiate that between really good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. So I think that that's a big part of it. It's just the with country music being so rooted in tradition. It's easy to point out. Well, that's not that doesn't sound anything like my grandparents listened to sound like anything like my parents listened to. So it's not country, but then it's a lot harder to differentiate the songs, right? So if Stapleton did just record all those songs themselves, they would be calling them fucking amazing songs,
Sam Morrow 34:53
right? Yeah, but Well, I think that people don't talk about about Stapleton as much as like, most of his songs are like soul lose, you know, like, he's got he's got like a twin to him for sure. Like, it's like surgical like circles last record was not a country record. Yeah, but anytime he sings, it's gonna sound like a country tune because he's got that like serious like toying mumbles, you know, yell kind of thing going on, you know. But I think that people kind of glaze over that, you know, because they want to just pigeonhole them and call them what they want to call them. And, you know, yeah.
Thomas Mooney 35:33
What do you think? What do you think about the circles? last record? What? What did you think of it just as such, it's such a it's more of a statement than shrine statements?
Sam Morrow 35:44
Yeah, no, I think that I think it's awesome. First of all, I mean, I'm, I'm kind of a diehard surgical fan. I don't know if Die Hard is the right word. But I love I love all these records. You know, I love the first one that's just kind of straight up country. Second one gets a little weird. And third one is not country, it's kind of more like, it sounds like a Stax record, you know, like Elvis stacks, something like that. But yeah, I think that like, seeing him do that was kind of also influenced this record for me, you know, like, Oh, you know, he just made a record that wasn't country, but everyone's calling it country. And he just kind of did. He kind of did what he wanted, you know, he produced it himself. And just kind of gave the middle finger to the establishment and some of his fans, you know, I mean, I thought it was great, man. I wanted to use horns on this record, but I specifically didn't, because sturgill has so many hearts. I didn't want to like be compared to his last record, you know?
Thomas Mooney 36:55
Yeah. I have this theory about like, the three guys like the izabal. Yeah, Stapleton and schedule. I think they're, I'll give you the little version of it. I think they're really, really great right there. If you had to say they're probably like the top three guys in the industry right now. And you're not really going to find someone who really hates him. But I think that like. Also, they're really good at, like, the really the three phases of music, if you will, but if you boiled it down, you could like pinpoint what they're really good at specifically, what like what gravitates people and I would say what, like his will does really well. Is he just really the best songwriter out of the three Yeah,
Sam Morrow 37:47
lyrics. I mean, right. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 37:48
And then I would say that Stapleton has like, the best voice, he's able to, like, Yeah, get that the best emotion in the voice, right. And then I think that like surgical, his big thing is more of a concept, or is able to, like relay that concept better than the other two? Sure. And like, get that emotional aspect into that concept. Alright, so I think like, what's, what's going to end up happening is that
Sam Morrow 38:17
we're going to morph them all into one super artists.
Thomas Mooney 38:21
Well, I think what's gonna happen is is like the fans are gonna stay longer. With Stapleton just because it's, it's easier to replicate. Right? And it's much, much more difficult to replicate. Like, ideas and concepts. Sure. And it's a lot harder. I think. So like, I think, stay or surgicals Records. You're gonna see like, fans break off and go like, you saw it, like, between the last two records, right? Why don't like this record? Because it's nothing like the last record. Yeah. And I think there's, like, it's, it's just one of those things where, at the end of the day, you may, like, think of it as a better artist, as a, but you're gonna see people kind of like, go, I can't listen to that, because I don't like it or whatever. You
Sam Morrow 39:12
know what I mean? That one, one strength of Stapleton, like, of course, his voice, but another thing that makes him it's gonna give him that longevity and makes him so unique is just his ability to find a melody. Like find a catchy, catchy fucking melody, you know, like, at first record, every song can get stuck in your head, you know? sturgill I think he, I mean, he said multiple times that he's only going to make like, what did you say like five records or something like that?
I don't know if I believe that. I don't know if he actually will. But that kind of makes me think that maybe he he thinks he has a shelf life, you know, and he doesn't want to, you know, overuse that or something like that, which Don't you may only make five records and then get into producing, you know, who knows? I mean, we can sit here and speculate all day. I mean, he did a good job on his record and Tyler Childers record. And then his will, I mean, everything I've read about him is like, he's, he's so disciplined in his songwriting. Like, he's one of those guys that like, wakes up every day pours a cup of coffee and writes, you know, which is not me at all. I mean, I wish it was, but I'm not that disciplined at anything, you know. But yeah, I totally subscribe to your theory that, like, I kind of feel like his bow has lost fans. I even since southeastern Yeah, I need you.
Because I mean, southeastern kicked everyone's ass. And yeah, I mean, I can't say I like both of the newer records. But I don't think he'll ever write a record that says go to southeastern, you know. I hope he does. Yeah, absolutely.
Thomas Mooney 41:09
I think south eastern just, it came at a right time. It came. Yeah. He did. capture a region. Yeah, if you will, in 12 songs and like, didn't really skip over anything. And it just, the songwriting was just perfect. And
Sam Morrow 41:27
there's some songs like that sort of nod the southeastern like speed drop down. I think that was that was on the second one for Yeah, something more on the free. Yeah. That song sound like a southeastern cut. And, I mean, that song just made me think of, like Texas man, or like, a small town, Texas, like, going to a football game. You know? Like Giddings, Texas, like, you know, the town like right before you get to Austin that they change the speed limit from 75 to 30. Yeah, and they just make all of their city and come on giving, you know people going on awesome tickets. But that he I think he like captured that even like sonically in that song. So that's my favorite stuff that he does.
Thomas Mooney 42:21
You know, that song right there is. It's one of those songs where you have to listen to it 10 times to really get what he's talking about. Yeah. Really? Because I feel like that is just as much of a gut punch, if you will, is like elephant or Oh, yeah, I think so. vampires. Like there's a there's a real at the heart of that song. It's fucking sad as hell, you know? Yeah. And I don't know that's that's what's one of his a great example of him. writing something that is more rewarding, the more you listen to it. And sure, I'm not sure if you if he's even like aware of that kind of like writing or you know what I mean? Like, if you if you set out to write something that's a little bit more harder to understand the first time listening. Yeah.
Sam Morrow 43:18
Yeah, all this stuff is just more intellectual than stabled and stuff like stables and stuff is more. It's just more accessible. Like you can listen to it once and know what it's about and which is why he's selling out like, pavilions and stadiums and shit like that. Right. You know. And with a three piece band at that, you know, just making it sound huge with a three piece band, that really blows my mind to you know, people, people sort of graze over how good of a guitar player he is to, you know, he's just very tasteful. And yeah, doesn't get too fancy.
Thomas Mooney 43:59
I think all three of them have, like,
Sam Morrow 44:02
all three guitar players. Yeah. And still now just plays with like a four piece and I saw him like, maybe eight months ago, and I was a little skeptical at first, but yeah, sounded really good. You know, it was different, you know, from going from. I never saw him with like, the whole horn section and stuff like that. But I can imagine it was a drastic change, you know? Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 44:28
Yeah. You weren't a culture wall. What do you think of Coulter? Or at least that first record?
Sam Morrow 44:35
I think he's like, maybe the best songwriter out there right now. You know, just I'll take that back. I think he's the best storyteller songwriter out there right now, you know. And that he's only 22. Yes. absurd.
Thomas Mooney 44:54
That's the one that gets me.
Sam Morrow 44:55
Yeah, I mean, it blows my mind. You know, I was I I didn't even know English that well when I was 22. You know, much less like writing these like, classic country and folk songs that nod to murder ballads or Arlo Guthrie. And. And then as you know, I was also skeptical of his voice at first when I first heard it, I was like, that's not how his voice sounds. He's putting that on, but Nah, man, that's, you hear him talk. That's how he that's how he talks. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 45:31
I know what you mean. Because like, whenever I first heard, heard him, I heard him. I went on YouTube and like, search for interviews. catch a glimpse of like, how he talked, and it was like, okay, that's not just like,
Sam Morrow 45:43
pretty much exactly how he's saying. Yeah. Yeah, man. And I, you know, I got to see him live. And he's the real deal, man, you know? Yeah, there's not really anyone quite doing what he's doing right now, either, you know? Cuz he's, he's just as good solo as he is with a band and. And he's 22. And that's Yeah, I can't believe that. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 46:16
I think it's also really hard to, like, capture that. For record. Oh, sure. To me, and
Sam Morrow 46:27
I think if anyone can do it, like, I think Dave Cobb. That's like his wheelhouse man, like, just that organic. Like capture the song as it is. That's what he does, you know, so for him, I can't think of a better producer.
Thomas Mooney 46:45
Yeah. I just think like, sometimes it can be hard to get that raw emotion out of it. You know what I mean? As far as like, I think it's, it's, it's easy, or it's easier, probably, if you're out there by yourself, acoustic to relay that emotion get that emotion out? Yeah. Because there's a crowd there. You know, I mean, and that's one of the things I've always wondered about is like, how do you, like, go? How do you dig deep? When it's just you, the producer, a couple engineers and a few people in the studio, you know what I mean? Like, how do you get to that place? Sure.
Sam Morrow 47:25
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I even read that. One of I don't know which song It was off his first record, but one of them they just recorded outside. You know, Dave Cobb was like, I think this one just needs to be done outdoors. I have to find like, which one it was, but yeah. I forget kind of what we're exactly talking. Just like, I mean, he's great, man. He's getting that emotion. Yeah, catching that emotion. I mean, it's definitely tough to do in the studio, like, just speaking from a personal perspective. Especially for these songs. Like, my last few records were like, sort of vulnerable, you know, kind of put me in a, like I wrote in pretty much all myself. And like, in the dark with the candle lit, you know, like, so it's a little easier to tap into those, like, personal experience, but this record is more of like,
funky and fun, and it's just kind of a different mood, you have to get in, you know, you know, you kind of have to get into like more of like a rock and roll mood rather than, you know, this sad, whatever, you know.
Thomas Mooney 48:59
Yeah, well, that's what I was gonna ask is, like, Is it easier to get up or get down? You know, what I mean, as far as like, trying to build the, the energy or like trying to tone it down? You know? I don't know, man. It just, it's hard to say the same thing, but like, just different. Yeah.
Sam Morrow 49:19
Yeah, I think so. That's a good question. I really don't. I really don't know. I never really thought about that. I just kind of let the song right. Like, I like my headphones to be really loud when I'm recording vocals. So I just kind of get a little bit lost, you know, you know, whether that's whether it's down or up, you know? I don't know. It's just different. I think it's just different man.
Thomas Mooney 49:46
Yeah. Yeah. Jamie, why it's on a lot of this new record. Yeah. I guess she's come through town a few times. Yeah. She's also an outlaw country artists. Yeah. Well, she Has the she's got the felony blues.
Sam Morrow 50:04
Yeah, she's got the prison thing going for. Yeah, man. I mean, we're kind of we're really like minded. You know, she's kind of like a sister to me. You know, we've done a bunch of tours together and you know, just the kind of way we look at music is similar. But yeah, she has. If anyone's outlaw she's outlaw you know, right. She's legit outlaw you know? I'm not I haven't done real time. So I guess I can't really I can't really speak on that. But she can Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 50:47
I guess like she was on three songs right, three or four songs. Did you get anything together? No.
Sam Morrow 50:56
She does like back like pretty much backgrounds on paid by the mile and San Fernando sunshine and skinny Elvis is like sort of a pretty much a duet, you know, and I initially we didn't really write it that way. But once we kind of recorded it in the studio and heard what it sounded like, you know, Las Vegas came to mind and then naturally, we're like, oh, we need to get a girl to double this. And Jamie was my first call. So yeah, man, I mean, we've seen a lot together and you know, we kind of familiar with each other's inflections and stuff like that. pretty seamless, you know, as soon as fun to and that certain song turned out. Pretty cool. Yeah, I'm
Thomas Mooney 51:45
pretty cool. The the Elvis thing obviously skinny Elvis. Kacey musgraves just had velvet Elvis. She's gonna record her last record. And then like one of my buddies Daniel Markham has a new record coming out with a song called velvet Elvis that he wrote like years ago.
Sam Morrow 52:02
I was like, wow, all these damn Elvis gonna come back, man. Yeah, all these different Elvis's? Exactly. That's another
Thomas Mooney 52:08
guy with like 100 versions of them. So
Sam Morrow 52:11
I'll make like a Stax Elvis song next time.
Thomas Mooney 52:15
I remember there being I don't know why I thought about this. But I remember this, that'd be like mid 90s SNL. It was like a SNL skit where they're like selling a mirror how like, they used to sell records on TV. infomercial for a record, maybe like, the classic country hits of that back in the day, or it'd be like, get the greatest hits of whoever. And I think this was like, built around the premise of like, a Christmas record. But they had like, where blah, blah, singing blah, blah. I keep like, I'm gonna give just blank examples. Yeah. And then they would pop up in the background and kind of like do their version of that song. Yeah. And because they would do those Conway Twitty. Yeah. And like, there was this one, it may have been like, set up as a duet record, I have to go find it. But what I remember is there being like skinny Elvis, and like Rob Schneider. Oh, dressed up like as Elvis and like singing something and then like him fading away and then they're like, and blah, blah, sings blah, blah with fat Elvis and john Goodman being just like Elvis, and like, singing another song. And it was just like, funny. And like I said, I'm out to find that. I don't know why I thought of that.
Sam Morrow 53:32
Yeah, we got we got it from my producer actually pretty much wrote this whole song. But we have this mutual friend that he's just like this really like from North Carolina. I can't remember his North or South Carolina. But if I get it wrong, he'll be mad at me. Hey, in North Carolina, but he's just like this is really cool. He's an artist to His name's Caleb actually. He's just like this really cool. And the way he talks is like, you know, they got this cool action. She's a smooth motherfucker. And we heard him refer to something as being cool is like, he was like, Man, that skinny Elvis all day long. And just like being like, Oh, that's badass. Yeah. And so Eric was like, you know, I have to use that in a song and that's where the whole idea came from, you know? Yeah. So hopefully he will start using skinny Oh, this all day long is like a term for badass. That's Yeah, that's my real purpose. With this whole record.
Thomas Mooney 54:40
I always love finding the like, whenever you hear a an idiom that you think has been around for fucking ever, you're like, how has that not been around? Like, it's like, oh, it's just right then and like that skinny Elvis is one on Turnpike's not their last record, but The record before they had a, everyone wants to be Hank Williams, but they don't want to have to die, which is like you know about like your hard work. And I was like, he's just not fucking been said. Yeah, but a lot of that stuff out there and one of yours that you kind of talked about in it's not really an idiom but it's like the whole being paid by the mile thing. Oh, sure it'd be paid by the song. And I think that's pretty, pretty funny too, because it kind of relates to that truck driver thing. Sure. Yeah, I paid by the mile. Yeah. Yeah, I
Sam Morrow 55:32
mean, I think it was just, it's just like a really relatable tune for anybody, you know. And that's another one that I co wrote with. Sky Ted Russell camp, who is a bass player plays for like shooter and everybody. He's like, everybody in LA, you know? Yeah. Yeah, one thing I did for this record I hadn't really done was like, do a bunch of CO writes. Just kind of get out of my comfort zone a little bit. And it was definitely productive, you know. But yeah, we just wanted to kind of I knew I wanted to sorta right, like country disco kind of track, you know, Donna Williams kind of thing. Yeah. And, yeah, that's what we came up with. And, you know, and it's, we kind of wanted to give like a nod to the common man, I guess, you know,
Thomas Mooney 56:26
on these co writes, where is it? Is it something where it's, you know, you kind of like scheduled out time? Or is it more just like a organic kind of,
Sam Morrow 56:36
no, these we actually like, I actually, like, went over to his house. And, you know, we both kind of came to each other with, you know, came to the session with some ideas and kind of whittled it down. And he co wrote heartbreak man with with me too. You know, he's, he's been playing music for a lot longer than I have. And kind of, you know, I've got some ideas that maybe he wouldn't think of, he's got some ideas that I wouldn't think of. And, you know, it's cool, man. Like, we it was a good experience. And, you know, he's, he played bass on the whole record, too. So he kind of knew my mindset going into it, and kind of what I wanted to do and yeah, so yeah, it was kind of good to have him there for that length of the process, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 57:28
Is it is it easier to like, relay, what you wanted that song, those songs to sound like, once you guys got into the studio? You know what I mean? As far as I think?
Sam Morrow 57:37
Yeah. Cuz I think I kind of like already had the references for the tunes, and, you know, kind of already knew what I wanted to put on it. And, you know, we have even discussed, like, during the CCO right, kind of what we wanted to sound like a little bit. And, you know, we've worked together enough to kind of have a language developed. Same with my producer, the same thing. And I was a third record, I've dealt with him. So yeah, we sort of have that language now that, you know, we can just sort of know what the other ones thinking and also at the same time, you know, we have no problem telling each other like, no, that sucks. You know, Brett, I mean, it's such an important thing for the whole creative process is being able to tell whoever you're working with. That's just, that's just not a good idea. Yeah, that doesn't sound good. You know? Yeah. Otherwise, if there's not that, like honesty, you're kind of fucked.
Thomas Mooney 58:33
Right? That's what with the music business, especially, I feel it's such a it can be it can be such a like, good. Oh, boy kind of thing. Like everyone, Pat and everyone on the back. Yeah. And like, there's rare, like, it's kind of like, at times turns into that versus like, you know, like, no, that's that is a bad idea. Like, let's not do that. And it's, it's, uh, obviously, whenever you're able to be honest enough for somebody to tell them. That's not good. Yeah, that's, that's what makes good art.
Sam Morrow 59:10
Yeah, sure, man. I mean, cuz not everything I think of is good or cool money, most of it is not good. So I need someone to tell me like, because otherwise, I'm gonna be sitting on it for like three months or longer, and then I'll figure out that it sucks, you know, rather than having someone like right in front of me, tell me like, now let's move on. Yeah, you know, say it in a nice way, you know?
Thomas Mooney 59:35
Yeah. But I always wonder is because this is related to the way I would do records. That'd be like, Okay, I've got this song idea. And then I probably have like three examples of songs that I kind of was wanting to to sound like, to me and like, kind of like in the way that you're talking about with the LA Las Vegas kind of right. How often does that happen for you like as far as like, you writing a song? And then you're like, using examples of other stuff to relay what you're talking about? Or is there just
Sam Morrow 1:00:13
pretty much every song, you know, like, like paid by the mile? I reference like, towards the time, you know, yeah. For I shouldn't probably be given away all my secrets here for for a quick fix, we sort of reference like cold, cold, cold, little feet. And even even to go a little further, like, I had references for recording. And I also had references for mixing, you know, like, yeah, oh, I want the I want the groove and the end of the field to be similar to this. But then, you know, once we have all that recorded, then like, oh, but I want the mix to sound like this. Yeah, where I want the drums to sound like this, you know, cuz I don't. I'm not. I'm not a mixing engineer. So I can't be like, Oh, well, you know, do this, put some highs there or whatever, you know, whatever. You know, I can do a little bit of that. But it's better if I'm just like, make it sound close to that, you know? Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 1:01:15
Because I feel like I've asked a few people that and they are like, No, not really. And I feel like that'd probably be the easiest way to relay what you're thinking of. Yeah. And I don't know if it's just because like, I don't know, that's not cool to do. You know what I mean? Like, like, I thought of all this by myself?
Sam Morrow 1:01:36
Oh, yeah, they probably? Yeah, most of the time, they probably just, I have I have no problem. You know, like, admitting my influences. And, you know, there's like an old quote, like, great artists steal or as you know, so yeah, along those lines. Yeah. Not to say that I'm just stealing stuff for everybody. Yeah. Like, everything has been done, you know, like, I'm not doing anything new right now. Yeah, I might be like melding some stuff that's a little bit new or whatever, but it's pretty much all been done by now. You know, so, you know, anything I do is probably something that I've heard, you know, and then you know, I'll push the envelope a little bit like I've never heard phaser phaser pedal on a Wurlitzer. You know, that's something we just tried out. And it sounded cool, you know. But yeah, as far as like, just referencing songs and stuff like that, I don't. I don't see how that's not healthy, you know, but I can see how it's hard for an artist to admit that.
Thomas Mooney 1:02:44
Yeah. Because I just, I don't know. I feel like that'd be that's what I would do. But yeah, we're like, I always thought like, Oh, I'm gonna make this record. I want it to sound like blank, blank and blank, right, like three records and kind of like, figure it out along the way as far as how it sounds in a studio, but I don't know.
Sam Morrow 1:03:08
I that's the best way to me, man. I don't know. I don't know how everyone else does it, but I do. But uh, yeah,
Thomas Mooney 1:03:17
we've been rolling in about an hour here. Cool, man. It's been fun. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Sure. Awesome.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai