034: Brad Rice of Jason Boland & The Stragglers
On Episode 034 of The New Slang Podcast, we talk with Brad Rice, drummer for Oklahoma staple Jason Boland & The Stragglers. During this one, we talk about 20 years' worth of time with Boland, the early days of Red Dirt and Texas Country emerging, regional storytelling & songwriting, and Oklahoma roots.
Interview Transcript
Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.
Thomas Mooney 0:06
Hey everyone, welcome to episode number 34 of the new slang podcast. I'm Thomas Mooney, the editor in chief of new slang here in Lubbock, Texas. And on this week's podcast, we're joined by Brad rice. Brad, he's the drummer of Jason Boland, and the stragglers. And he's been the drummer for, I guess, like 20 years now. Nearly 20 years. I think the band technically formed in 98. But for will say 20 years, they were in Lubbock, I guess it was last Friday. And so we were fortunate enough to have Brad join us for about an hour. They were playing Charlie B's. And so we went to the green room in the back and had this conversation about Texas and Oklahoma music. What's happening in Nashville, the state of the Oklahoma City Thunder, a lot of other little things. If you've been, I guess, listening to the podcast, since its inception, you've known and realized just how awkward and weird this intro is. And you're there for a while, I was just basically giving little tidbits of information of what was happening during the actual interview. And I always just felt that was kind of goofy, and really just not necessary. And so I've been thinking of other ideas that what to do with this time, that will be a little bit more beneficial for everyone. And so I guess I decided to try something out this week. You know, people were always asking me what music I'm listening to. And typically, for the most part, I, I can never think of anything off the top of my head that I'm like, go listen to this, go listen to that. So anyways, we'll go ahead and start doing this. Like, I don't know, top five thing that I'm like the records I'm listening to at the moment. And so five minutes before recording this, I wrote down five records that I've been listening to. So we'll try this out. This week, I've been listening to the new culture wall record, it's a self titled, he's a Canadian singer, songwriter. And the thing about like, is, this record is it's one, it's Dave coproduced. So there's that. But one of the things I think that he's what makes this record, kind of important is that, or at least like what one of the strong points of the record is that? You know, he's only 21 years old. And in a lot of ways, he just doesn't know any better to like he's not compromised, I guess. Like he's not been told no, by the the music industry. So he's kind of like one of these. He's got this idea in his head, that he wants to be like a Townes Van Zandt kind of songwriter, he wants to be a Woody Guthrie folk singer, you know, and this is delta Mississippi Delta Blues kind of guitar player. And so like, that's what's in his head any he's a he's I had idealistic, I guess, is what I would say. So like, nobody's really ever told them know that you can't do this, or, you know, this isn't gonna sell records. And so like, that's probably the strongest part of this entire record is that he's so absolutely about the songwriting, and the storytelling. And he's got one hell of a voice to like, it's like early Johnny Cash kind of style. And so yeah, that's one of the records. I'm listening to. Number two on this list. It's the new hairstyles record. A lot of people are probably going to try and give me flack for putting that down here and listening to it. But the record is damn good. He doesn't necessarily go through the same kind of transition that Justin Timberlake went through. After you left in sync, you know, he Timberlake went to more being an r&b hip hop kind of guy. While this Harry Styles records a little bit more singer song ratterree it's a little bit more rock and roll. He kind of reminds me of like 90s Britpop, in a lot of ways, it's also kind of very like George Michael ish. Kind of reminds me it does have these like little weird moments that kind of remind me of Peter Gabriel.
If you aren't really familiar with Peter Gabriel, I'm talking about like the the post Genesis era of Peter Gabriel, I'd highly suggest going and getting any of his self titled records of that era. Moving on, on my list, these are actually not even records. These next few things that I've written down, but one of my favorite bands that put out a record a couple years ago is hi And they they've been working on this new record. They've just played SNL just last Saturday. And they've, there's probably like two or three singles out right now. One of them is called right now. And one of them is called want you back. Those are the ones that are on Spotify right now at least. And I just find their sound incredible. They're one of these bands who I kind of like, I think they're kind of like 90s r&b mixed with Fleetwood Mac in a way. Kind of like, it's I know that sounds strange. But they do have these like little pop sensibilities of 90s r&b, you can tell that they listened to in vogue growing up, but then they are also have like a foundation of like Fleetwood Mac. So they're very single, honorable, which I think like, they're probably the one band out there, who does the best job of doing the chorus lines, where they're all singing kind of like different things at the same time. But it all makes sense. And then they don't ever sound like they're just talking over each other. It's such a really cool and strange dynamic and their sound that I really, really like. And moving on to I guess number four on the list. Culberson county by red shakin, like I said, this is not really an album. It's just a song. It's going to be on his new record, that'll probably probably be out in the fall sometime. I believe that's when they're shooting for a new release date kind of thing. Anyways, he recorded this song down in when he was playing luck reunion a couple of months back, Bonnie Bishop is singing on the song as well. Or at least on this version, I don't know if she's on the studio version. I'm sure she is. But at least for this video, she is. I guess without getting too far into the politics of, of at all. Culberson County, that song really resonates with me. Because, you know, in West Texas, there's a lot of hipsters and yuppies you're moving in. And I guess like trying to make another claim on the land, even though people have been living there for generations. And it always feels like they try and make it where like, they appreciate the bill. I don't know the area more so than people who have been living there for 100 years. And it just seems weird and strange to me. And that's what really the song's kind of about is like protecting the places that you give a damn about. Yeah, we'll go ahead and just leave it at that. Number five on the list. It just came out yesterday. And that's if we were vampires by Jason is born with the 400 unit. I'm not really going to talk too much about this song, because I don't think like anything I say will even do justice to the song. Always really, I guess, say that. The reason it's sad is just because of how beautiful it is. It I think it's on Spotify and iTunes and whatnot now, so just go ahead and go listen to it, go buy it. It's going to be on Jason's new record. And I think it's just one hell of a song. You know, as a bonus, I would just go in and say go listen to temple the dog or Soundgarden or audio slave or any of the Chris Cornell solo records out there. Yesterday morning, whenever I woke up, that was the first thing I read. Somebody had sent me a message on Facebook. And I guess like, you know, the first thing I did was go look on Twitter to see what he was even talking about. And yeah, it's one of the it's just a shame that somebody like Chris Cornell would pass away so early. I guess it's been rolled a suicide at this moment. And yeah, rest and peace of Chris Cornell. And I hope you know that this family finds some kind of peace in this. What has to be such a hard time.
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Easily on this one here Yeah, you guys been recording a new record? I've been seeing Instagram photos and Yep, we sure have what not.
Brad Rice 10:20
We, we started back in March. And grant and I took about four days to get the rhythm tracks done. And while we track the drums and bass, we always track as a full band and Boland is mainly doing scratch guitar rhythm guitar and vocal tracks. And some of the stuff might be keepers in terms of say like what Cody's playing on the rhythm electric guitar or what Nick is doing some chops and grooves on the on the fiddle. chugging along time, but mostly the lead instruments, they they go back and do overdubs. And that's what they've been doing the last on and off for about the last six weeks. So where Jason wanted to take more time with this album, and to, you know, not be set on any kind of arbitrary schedule. And we're working with de Percival anatomy motor at Yellow Dog studios, which is now right off the river, and wemberly It's beautiful out there. And since we didn't use money to bring a bigger name, producer, and like a shooter Jennings or a Jim Ward, this time we're more or less self producing. I'm sure it'll be listed with Dave as a Dave and Adam as co producers. Because they they're providing a lot of input. But yeah, for the most part, Jason has a vision on this album and has So for the last few records. But you know, I think he he has a lot of respect for for shooter and Jim and Lloyd Maines for that matter. And Mike McClair all the guys that we've worked with, and Pete Anderson, too. But we've also, you know, been a band for almost 19 years now and with this, I believe, is the ninth studio app. I
Thomas Mooney 12:27
think it's like nine.
Brad Rice 12:28
Yeah. So, you know, we, we, we know what to do more or less, and we're not gonna, you know, rewrite the book on studio recording by any means. We're just going to go in and try to make what we think is the best album that we can make right now.
Thomas Mooney 12:47
Yeah. See, like the, I guess, like last record squelch, like that had a lot more of punk influence.
Brad Rice 12:55
Yeah, for sure. And that's what Jim Ward brought to that record. And when Jason was writing, for squelch, he was listening to a lot of band called fear, New York punk, a lot of Ramones. And it's kind of follow follow the rabbit holes with with hardcore and punk rock. And so you could definitely hear that, yeah, on squelch and I, I think a lot of people didn't receive it as warmly as they have some of our other records to put it nicely. And, you know, that's okay. Because we we have proved to at least ourselves that we're going to have some kind of longevity in this career. And there are going to be albums that aren't full of anthems that not everybody loves So, but at the same time, I think Jason intends to be polarizing as a musician, and to force people who are listening to our music to step out of their element and say, why don't you try on this different pair of shoes for one song and see, you know, what you think and when, when you come and see the live show, I suppose that makes a little bit more sense because we'll do kind of like a miniature rock set about a third of the way through the show and kind of group all the country pop cow punk. Kind of but rock, you know, we're, we have a lot of different influences. And I think a lot of the rock and roll ones kind of lose out on a few different things that we do live. And for me being a rock and roll drummer, those are the ones that I love playing the most.
Thomas Mooney 14:42
So do you think that uh, I don't know, like going down that rabbit hole per se, do you think like if that was what you said, like you guys been doing this like 20 years, basically, right? That was more of a challenge like looking for that challenge seeking out and trying to find a challenge. To write a certain way, yes. Or do you think it was more, you know, just not necessarily spur the moment, but maybe a little bit of just, this is what I was doing. And this is kind of just what
Brad Rice 15:12
I think at the moment, I think, yes, mostly because Bolin. I don't want to say this. Maybe it's more that he was just being moved by what he was listening to at the time. And, you know, when you do this for as long as we have, I think artists tend to worry about getting stuck in a rut, and, you know, just rehashing the same style of songs, you know, you pearl snaps, our first album has always done really well. And that's what people like to hear that they enjoy coming out. And, you know, catching a nostalgic feeling. And for the same reason, I love playing those songs live too, because it makes me feel the same way. And but at the same time, we have to please ourselves, as a band, as much as we have to please the people who come out and pay to see the show. Because if, if we feel like we're stale and stagnant onstage, that definitely translates to the crowd, they can see it. And so we have to keep it new and fresh for us, too. And for a long time, I kind of feel like we had a new batch of songs that were expertly written, and we wanted to show them to the world. And sometimes you have to remember that. The it's just, it's taken a while to find an equilibrium between new material in the live show and old material. So because you want to, you want to entertain the folks that came out, but Bolin always says, If it weren't for new music, then you wouldn't have you know, favorite songs, because you would have just this arbitrary set of songs that were out there forever. And that's all he had. So,
Thomas Mooney 17:30
yeah, it is strange, like the I guess, like it really goes into, like, just people always just never discovering music once they get past 25 or something you don't I mean, yeah, and just falling into the the nostalgic like, what do you listen to? Sure. And that's, I guess, that goes to the whole, you know, music was better back then. For everybody that everyone says that kind of shit.
Brad Rice 17:57
Yeah, I've gone through that too. And I'm kind of going through a phase where I'm revisiting, like old jazz. And I've been a john Coltrane fan for a long time, but recently have been going back through, not going back through getting into Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie and Miles Davis and listening to all these drummers like Jimmy Cobb and Roy Haynes and Philly Joe Jones and I've been a fan of jazz for a long time, but I've never closely listened to it like I had been lately and I do that with a lot of music. I mean, the first thing that I always hear when I listen to a song are the drums and there's no change in that for me and I guess I wouldn't want to because I feel like I'm always trying to hear something new and different to me whether it's music that's previously unexplored on my part, not just new releases on I mean, I do love new release Friday on iTunes for sure. But you think Friday's better as a release date than the old Tuesday You know, it took me a while to come around to that because for Tuesday releases it kind of gave a little low hanging fruit to you know the early to mid week doldrums for people that might need something to look forward to but on the same token it makes Friday and the weekend even cooler so I understand why they did it. And I guess not everybody always releases on Fridays. Sometimes you have singles that come out on Sunday afternoon but
Thomas Mooney 19:47
yeah, I do you think like there are some people who just release music whenever they want to write, you know,
Brad Rice 19:53
people that can Yeah, you know, know that maybe enjoy the social media. Buzz, as opposed to kind of the now archaic platform of releasing an album where you, you know, drop the same goal and then chum the waters with maybe a video and then, you know, I kind of like what john mayer did with his most recent release. And he put out a full length LP, but he did three independent releases with four tracks each. And it kind of gave you a chance to live with, you know, a smaller set of songs and digested in periods. Yeah, sure, as opposed meals courses. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not the world's biggest john mayer fan, but I certainly respect what he does. And I like I like the kind of organic at sound and r&b stuff that he does that continuum out. And my thought was really good. Steve, Steve Jordan produced it. He's the drummer who plays on it. He was the drummer and the Blues Brothers Band. So
Thomas Mooney 21:10
okay. See, I've never really got into john mayer. I know like a lot of people have and I know a lot of people who were playing music now have always have cited them as influences. Like, even like flatland Calvary, yeah. Like you're one of the biggest fans of john mayer. You know, it's like, say equal parts Turnpike and Mayor for them as far as like. I don't know, I just I guess like it with Mayor. I think it sometimes depends on when you first are introduced to an artist. So whenever I was 1213, the mayor that I was introduced to was, you know, like daughter's era. Pop era. You know what I mean? Like a blues or rock'n'roll era?
Brad Rice 21:55
Yeah, now he's even getting into more Jamie stuff, playing with the Grateful Dead on the last round shows, not all of them but and grant our bass player is a huge deadhead and made it up to the Chicago show that they did. And Trey, Anastasia was filling the Jerry Garcia role that night. But he kind of gained a consensus from a lot of deadheads at the show and online that said that john mayer did a great job. And of course, you can go listen to the live recordings and watch the DVDs and stuff now the DVDs. I'm an old guy, I call videos, DVDs.
Thomas Mooney 22:39
Yeah, the that's something I don't think. I don't know if a lot of bands are doing now is the the live DVD with the CD. You know what I mean?
Brad Rice 22:48
Yeah. Excuse me. Um, a lot of people have asked us over the years if we're gonna ever release the DVD concert. And Jason has said maybe not seriously, but just to at least placate people that maybe we'll do it when we hit our 20 year anniversary. And I think it'd be cool. And maybe there has been some talk about doing some kind of a documentary. I think people seem to connect with that. this day and age as much or more than they would with a concert DVD. Me we're a band that plays a lot of shows a year so you can come out and see us. Yeah, we might not we might kind of stick to our region for 75% of the year but we'll we'll make it out to the west and the east coast and Jason has another show run coming up with a shooter on the East Coast at the end of the year. So
Thomas Mooney 23:55
okay, so talking about the getting outside of this region, the the Texas Oklahoma music region. I think like a lot of bands, you know, it's when you first start out, it's an easy place to to tour around. You've got a system already set in place. Sure it will. But at some point do you think a lot of these bands are becoming complacent or like even finding it hard to get out onto the West Coast, the East Coast just because they've branded themselves as Texas country.
Brad Rice 24:31
Um, I think Texas is such a big state and there are so many venues that are supportive of what Texas country artists are doing that a lot of lot of bands that are, you know, trying to get started. They either a have a hard enough time trying to find shows in Texas or B they don't have to leave Texas because there are so many places to play. I will say that when the stragglers formed in 98, this scene was a lot different than it is now, it was a lot more about independent songwriting. And that's not a criticism. That's just a fact. Yeah. But I feel like maybe for the younger bands that are in this scene now that it has become a little less about songwriting and waving a flag of the independent spirit, and more about being a diving board to something bigger. And I know, Granger Smith was quoted in an article saying that he appreciated his time in the minor leagues, meaning the Texas country music scene, but you know, we're on to bigger and better things. And a lot of people got upset with that. And I mean, I didn't find anything wrong with it. If any, if, if anything, he was being honest. And I appreciate that above and all most things. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 26:12
So I think he could have said it in a lot better way, or he could have been, but when it came down to it, like he wasn't not speaking the truth, and a lot of ways he
Brad Rice 26:23
was trying to tip his hat to Texas, and he kind of it just was an underhanded compliment, I guess. But you know, those guys are great. And the man has man is good. Shout out to dusty sacks. And that guy is an incredible drummer. But as far as the scene goes, just when I feel like you know it, it has become only the quote unquote minor leagues for for Nashville. I see bands like Cody West, these guys that are playing with us tonight. They're great. Of course, Turnpike has their they're on a meteoric rise and have been for a while. And, yeah, it that is so neat to see. Because they're, they're such a nice group of people. And they're very good at what they do. And it's, it's cool when something that's good, also becomes the cool thing. And that that doesn't happen very often. But yeah, those guys are authentic.
Thomas Mooney 27:31
Yeah, well, that's what what it is, right is that it's, it's great to see the authentic. Like you said before, when the scene started out, it was more about songwriting. Those guys are about songs more than they are for sure. Maybe anyone in the, in this area, you know, being just true to a song more than anything else. And, you know, that doesn't necessarily always work for everybody to know, get. That doesn't mean like, what I'm, I guess, the winners don't always dictate that, you know what I mean? Like the high risers, but,
Brad Rice 28:06
and being busy. being the most talented band doesn't always mean that you're going to be successful. Yeah. But more times, it's the opposite way. You know, you see, I've seen a lot of really good bands that nobody has ever heard of my, my, my band might be one of those bands. I mean, regionally people know who the stragglers are, but that's a whole different can of worms. So
Thomas Mooney 28:36
well, you know, do you think that part of the reason why 20 years ago, people were more about songwriting, the storytelling is just because y'all his lineage from being from Oklahoma, just years and years and years and years back all go to a guy like like Woody Guthrie, who was like a more of a storyteller than a performer, if you will?
Brad Rice 29:04
That's a good question. And I've never really thought about that. I wonder if it's sometimes I wonder if it's that. Reading isn't cool anymore. That we joke on the bus. And I mean, it's not just us on the bus, social media jokes about it that idiocracy is happening. Yeah. And I think Mike judge said, video, idiocracy wasn't meant to be a how to video or how to instructional manual. But and I guess that's the most pessimistic way to look at pop culture. Yeah, but you know, there are nuggets that are awesome and full of wisdom and in everything that's out there. You just have to look and find him. And the Internet has made that I think that's probably The greatest reason aside from the fact that Jason is a great songwriter that we've been able to maintain longevity in the music industry is that people can find us and we can directly find them. There. There is no middleman anymore. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 30:20
I guess Did you read that article? A couple days ago, somebody wrote out about how I think like the title, the headline was, the music industry is killing itself. Did you read that? Oh, no, I didn't read it. But there was an article. And it's basically the same as every other article that you've read about the music industry dying. And I don't know, like, I think I guess like, the one thing I wonder about, whenever I see people share these articles and say the the music industry is dying, you can't make a living at it, yada, yada, yada. It's always like, and this sounds really harsh. But I always think like, do these people think they would have been signed back in the 70s, or the 60s? And like, that's may sound cruel, but like, it's not necessarily that there was everybody was signed in the 70s, or in the 60s, there's still major, top heavy, you know, as the top I've been in. If anything, the digital age has made it possible for indie rock to survive. And any kind of indie music. Yeah,
Brad Rice 31:26
and for anybody and everybody to record an album, and stick it out there, into the ether and allow people to criticize it, enjoy it, you know, do whatever folks do with media. And that's kind of weird. I've read a lot of the dystopian novels, and I'm not conspiracy theorists per se, or anything, but we're definitely live in a strange time. And I don't know I got off topic there. Oh,
Thomas Mooney 32:02
it is a strange time. Obviously, it's either like one or two things I always think is like, yeah, we're, we're living in a horrible mess. And like shits just rolling down, or that like every generation thought it was the last generation? Sure.
Brad Rice 32:20
I think it might be a little bit of both. Yeah. You know, the greatest generation says they were the greatest generation, they were so arrogant that they, I don't know that they named themselves that. But I just realized the other day that I'm technically a millennial, I turned 40, on the 24th of April. And somebody sent me an article that said that there are different differing opinions out there as to when millennials start, but I was born in 77. And the what the article that they sent me said that millennials, start at 1977. I definitely identify with Generation X or Y, rather more than anything, but
Thomas Mooney 33:06
yeah, see, I've, I've, I've read like it was like, 85, or something. I see. That makes a lot more sense to me at the break. Yeah, yeah. See, and I don't even I was born in 87. So you're definitely a millennial. Yeah. But like, there's times where I'm like, I feel like the old man in the group. I'm like, which I guess there has to be an old man, old. Sure. cranky. Somebody has to share their their wisdom in that group. But I don't know. It's like, some of the things you see online now. I think like the biggest thing online that drives me crazy. It's just like, we're all in our own echo chambers. Oh, no doubt. And that's probably the one thing about social media that bothers me more than anything else is, is that we're all just like, we're all in our own little echo chambers. And we all made it that way. I mean, like, if you don't like something somebody heard, well, you just
Brad Rice 34:01
go call somebody addict for not liking it. Yeah. And I've been as guilty or guilty, or than anybody of being an asshole on the internet.
Thomas Mooney 34:11
Yeah. And
Brad Rice 34:14
not so much trolling around, and, you know, trying to be an ultimate dick. But I definitely have enjoyed kind of stirring the pot, trying to make people think, and it's taken me a while to figure out how to pull some of the edge off of that, and not be so off putting to people. And because I think a lot of people that if they only know me from my Twitter profile, they probably think I'm a real big dick. And I wouldn't fault them for thinking that. So I have tried to do a better job and the last couple of years of representing who I am on, so Social media and not just using it as a soapbox, but I'm pissed off about some.
Thomas Mooney 35:06
Yeah, let's see, that is the part about it. Like, you know, someone's gonna hear this and go, when they're gonna take what I said just a minute ago about like, you know everyone using it as an echo chamber and they're gonna go well he's a hypocrite. And I'm I'm fully aware that this is a hypocritical thing like, that's the only reason I think I know, but like, I realize is because everyone has been an asshole on the internet,
Brad Rice 35:30
you have to you have to be an authority to be an author. I mean, that's, that's what it means, right? So you have to, you have to be involved in it, to fully understand it. And only then, would you be a douchebag if you didn't admit, and weren't honest, saying that. Yeah, sure. I'm using it for the same thing. Yeah. And that's really my main beef with people is when they believe their own bullshit. And they they won't admit behind the curtain that, you know, I'm doing this to make money or to be fulfill insecurities that I've been plagued with all my life for whatever reason that people do things that they do. Yeah. But if you're honest, shit, man, I'm, I can't fault you for it.
Unknown Speaker 36:25
Well, hopefully not.
Thomas Mooney 36:28
I don't know. Like, I do think that we live in the most interesting times at least.
Brad Rice 36:34
I agree. I mean, there's so much information that's out there right now. And it is difficult to sift through the multitude of what's out there. But again, if you're intelligent, free thinking person who likes to read and still supplement some of that time with reading a book, then you can discern what's bullshit and what's not. Yeah. Are you a fan of Elan musk? Am I a fan of what Elan musk? Um, I really don't know much about him. Other than that, he's the cat that's trying to get to space again. Yeah,
Thomas Mooney 37:17
he's the guy. He's trying to do everything. He's got like, he thinks like, we're all living in a simulation. You know, like, we're just some, I guess. Somebody's like, yeah, like seventh grade art project, okay, or something. You know, like, even that simple, like, so many years from now. And 1000s and 1000s of years from now, like somebody, we're just in some simulation. And I don't I don't think that's what it is. But like, there's been so many strange things that have happened these last like last year, like, especially in sports, that I go. Well, I mean, maybe like, we're like the Cubs winning. The Patriots coming back from I don't know how to say to you, impactful, alabama football getting beat all these little,
Brad Rice 38:06
I kind of enjoyed that. I mean, not not like SHODAN froideur or anything, but you know. And it's not like Clemson is an underdog either. But yeah, sometimes it gets tired. Or it's old seeing the same old team win over and over. And I mean, Alabama is a great football team. And Nick Saban is one of the greatest college football coaches of all time. But Nick, our fiddle player, had a hard time getting behind Clemson because the coach's name is Dabo. Yeah. And he, he didn't like that. So yeah.
Thomas Mooney 38:46
What are you gonna do? Yeah, you're talking about sports? Sure. What's your thunder fan?
Brad Rice 38:52
I love the thunder. I do. Basketball is my favorite sport. It's the only sport that I was really ever good at. I played soccer when I was in elementary school, and played basketball up until Middle School. And that was about the point when I started getting more interested in music than sports and kind of forked off and stuck with music, but I've always always maintained a fan relationship with the game of basketball and I love college football as well. I'm yeah, Thunder fan and an Oklahoma State. cowboy fan. So
Thomas Mooney 39:35
yeah, okay, so make your Westbrook NBB case.
Brad Rice 39:40
My like appealing for him to win the MVP. I think that the MVP award really is about the one player that makes the team viable in the league. And I, I really believe and this is not a knock on the rest of the thunder as a team, but I believe that if you took Westbrook away from the thunder, that that team would fucking suck, it would Yeah, that they would have had a lopsided record would have had zero chance of being in the playoffs without them. And it definitely from fans perspective and okie fan perspective, it hurt when Kevin Durant left and especially that he left for the Golden State Warriors. But I completely understand why he had to leave. And I think that more than anything that open Westbrook's game up, and he's going to have to find some kind of a compromise, they're going to have to find somebody to then they are lacking a small forward and I don't know who they would replace Kevin Durant with I mean, they're they're definitely developing some guys, but I would kind of selfishly like to see Blake Griffin, come back to Oklahoma. Yeah.
Thomas Mooney 41:23
Well, I bet he opts out this year. He made maybe a sign in trade of some sort. Yeah, I've definitely seen some of the Oklahoma sports writers mentioned that and kind of give you the what if scenarios. Yeah. And he's definitely not a offensive minded player like Duran is, but he isn't an imposing presence. And I think they just need a another veteran. Yeah. Well, see, I think the going to Blake Griffin, the Clippers, I don't think like the parts ever really fit well enough to really work the Chris Paul and the Blake Griffin Sure. Aspects didn't fit as well as, as you would hope, you know, in a way like Blake is also kind of a ball dominant for he's a great passer. Now, you may say like there's a little bit of some conflict between him and Russ as far as ball dominant guys. But like you also have to have Russ, like this last season dominated the ball in a way that we've never seen. But yeah, he knows set records. Yeah. For user presented. Yeah. For usage like PR, obviously, the the triple double, which I don't like the triple double thing, I don't think is as big of a deal, as a lot of people have made it out to be because now, obviously averaging What do you average, like almost 3010 and 10 or 1110? Something averaged? Yeah. 3010. And that is that is really remarkable. But just the mere fact that it's a triple double, I don't really think carries that much weight, because it didn't really become a thing until the 80s. And if you if you think about this way, had had the triple double the idea of the triple double been around since the beginning of basketball. I think you would have seen magic and bird race for that. So like, I'm not saying like, that's like not a that's not a knock on, in my opinion, saying that, like he should win it because of that. But I do think like if you're arguing it's not a good argument just for the triple double aspect, if you will. Yeah, I think he's gonna win, but I don't
Brad Rice 43:40
I think you can blame the the whole focus on statistics on sabermetrics and baseball. Yeah, I think once once they realized that there was viability in understanding the analytical side of Moneyball against me. Yeah, for sure. I think that has driven the, the fascination and the preoccupation with knowing every stat. Yeah, and the importance of stats.
Thomas Mooney 44:13
So I do think it has made basketball better, just like the analytical analytical aspect of sports. It has made us think about like, what shots are better. That has dictated like look at Golden State's offense, like it's beautiful to watch like, they're way better at playing offense than many other like, just in comparison, like look at even I don't know, like even the rockets are not that really, I guess like that's an argument against it, though. Like if the argument for analytical last for the analytics is that it's made Golden State better. It's made like the Spurs a better offense to watch
Brad Rice 44:58
it well, and it's also educated. Fans more Yeah. As to what happens in a game? Yeah, I, I think by and large, it's probably a good thing for the game. But I'm kind of like you I, I don't necessarily think the triple double thing is that big of a deal. It made me I mean, it didn't make me follow the games any more or less than I already would have.
Thomas Mooney 45:24
Yeah, but see, it's to me it was way more for the the casual fan. And obviously, like, if you're the Oklahoma City Thunder, you definitely market and push for that just to get more more casual fan through the NBA, you push for that. But I think if that's part of your basis for Russ being the MVP, just because he second person in the NBA to average a triple double. I think that's kind of a it's not that necessarily the biggest thing in the world.
Brad Rice 45:55
The thing that I do think is cool. That comes from behind that is that it caused a lot of people who aren't fans in the thunder to root for Westbrook. Yeah. He got some standing ovations at some of the road games towards the end of the season where he got
Thomas Mooney 46:15
triple double. There was some war there was a couple of games where like they were like rooting for him. Yeah, taking opposing away buildings, which was, I think, like, they play the nets and like the nets were going crazy for him. Yeah, boy, are the sons. I know we're
Brad Rice 46:32
Phoenix did. I'm not sure if the Nets did or not. Phoenix is the one that I know about. For sure. But I mean, he's he's definitely a larger than life basketball player. And he's also a polarizing person. I mean, a lot of people hate him because he is he plays with such raw emotion. That's why I love him the most. If If Westbrook played on a different team. I would love him as much as I do now, because he is such he has such an incredible dedication to the game of basketball. Yeah, now, he drives me crazy when he was beating up on the thunder if he played for the Spurs or Golden State, but I'm not one of those Thunder fans that went and trash talk Kevin Durant's on Twitter when he left. In fact, I actually made a plea to Thunder fans asking that they didn't act like a bunch of childish assholes that it's Yeah, a game. It's a business and that he had to do what was right for him. Yeah. And you know it. It seems like it's come out more now that there, there just wasn't enough room on that. roster for Durant and Westbrook. Yeah. And look at what happened when he left. He had this incredible season. So I'm sure if you asked Westbrook he would say that he was disappointed that they didn't get past Houston in the first round. But I think he's probably the kind of guy that can leave that shit on the court and just move on. I mean, yeah, we got there. There is life outside of the NBA for those guys. He's getting paid.
Thomas Mooney 48:20
Sure. Or as well, now he's getting a bigger slice of the pie.
Brad Rice 48:23
He knows he's making a lot of money. He's he is one of the most salient presences in all of sports. A lot of people know who he is. Yeah, I do think that like,
Thomas Mooney 48:40
fandom, just in general. I guess like it, I guess that's part of like, what makes fans fans is that they're irrational overall? Absolutely. But I'm not worried about that. I think like, I guess the older I've gotten, the more I've I guess I've understood that. When it comes down to it. One, it's a business to like some of the rules of sports. They're they're just arbitrary rules for the game itself. But then in general, around the around the sport. Like one of the things I heard in an argument for, for, you know, for grant for like, players just moving is that name another profession that, you know, to play or to be in the in this to be hired this way. You're drafted and you're made to go play for a certain team and live in a certain city. You know, like, there's no other profession like that.
Brad Rice 49:47
You have very little control over your own destiny when it comes to like in Durant's case, he was drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics. And then the group from Oklahoma bought the team. And so he moved to Oklahoma City. And he had probably no say in that matter whatsoever. Yeah. And when he did have say so in it, he finally decided, Well, you know, I feel like I've put my time in here and done what I can for this team in this city. And, you know, I would like to move on.
Thomas Mooney 50:24
Yeah. Going back to like Oklahoma. I think like the, the differences, the differences between the Oklahoma and Texas songwriter is really, it's really interesting to see the differences. And I think it all goes down to, like I was saying earlier is that you guys all kind of go from like a Woody Guthrie? Place stem from that tree? Well, I think a lot of Texas guys, especially lately, have there's definitely a little bit more of a rock influence. But like, I think I'm trying to find a way to say this nicely, or nicer. I think like, Oklahoma songwriting is better than what's happening in Texas the last 15 years, 10 years?
Brad Rice 51:13
I'm not sure. I don't think I disagree with that. But at the same time, I think that there, there are a lot of substantive songs that are coming out of Texas. For instance, I love john Bellman, it has a way with words, and he has an authenticity in his songs that it comes through when you sit down and give it a listen. And that's what I think most people are shooting for when they sit down to write. But not everybody knows how to do that so well. And but as far as Oklahoma songwriters being better than Texas songwriters, if there's a reason for that, maybe it's because Oklahoma is a little smaller, it's more isolated. There are fewer urban centers, and I could say cities. But I don't know that's an I would hate to agree with you and piss off a lot of Texans. But I just won't disagree with you.
Thomas Mooney 52:31
I do think it has something to do with the isolation. A little bit more down home a little bit more of a there being less to do. Yeah, per se,
Brad Rice 52:42
you have football. Or I wouldn't just say football in music. I mean, that makes Oklahoma sound. Yeah, really small and pedestrian. But those are definitely two of the biggest things that I know of.
Thomas Mooney 53:02
How about like, religion?
Brad Rice 53:05
Religion is a huge thing in Oklahoma. I grew up in the Lutheran Church was pretty active in the church for years and years. At one point in my life considered going into the seminary, in fact, but I don't know. Maybe the church influence comes through in like gospel, and, you know, because you music is always a big thing in church. Yeah. That's not to say that Texas is devoid of beaches and music, but maybe it's one of the more central focuses in people's lives. Yeah, I
Thomas Mooney 53:48
mean, let's see what I was thinking is like, if you take like a guy like Fulbright or Moreland, or like, Parker, Millsap, like I feel those that kind of strain of songwriter from Oklahoma the the the Pentecostal aspects. Yeah, are a lot heavier than, than most Texas guys are, like, even like the the, the Texas singer songwriter, and I mean, like, more serious. Yeah, like,
Brad Rice 54:16
I'm with you, I think. I think maybe the Oklahoma guys and especially the ones that you're mentioning, are more interested in telling stories than they are selling songs and, you know, having a big following. And I guess it depends on what your goal is. Do you want commercial success, or do you want critical success and lagna praise from your peers. And Will's you mentioned Fulbright, he was nominated for a Grammy. But if you polled the average Texan, who likes this music scene the the know these names and just said john fullbright or Josh Abbott? I, I'm willing to bet a lot more people would know who Josh Abbott are versus john fullbright. Yeah, absolutely. Josh Abbott doesn't have a Grammy nomination. And, again, that's not a knock on Josh Abbott. That's just the name I've pulled out of there. Those guys are great. I think they put a good show on. And they draw a lot of people. Probably much bigger crowds than Fulbright does. But I don't think Fulbright cares about commercial success. I think he he's going a different route. I call it the NPR route. Yeah, you know, cuz you, if you are one of the musical guests on Prairie Home Companion, or you get not, or you get interviewed by Terry Gross on fresh air. I feel like there's something more substantive about your music than if you're getting write ups and rolling stone and features in USA Today or shit like that. Yeah. And I think that's exactly and you know, maybe it's also more the difference now between Texas country and Americana. And it's like their Americana has existed for years and years, but now it's kind of being rebranded. And so their two worlds are colliding, because there are a lot of the what I would say better bands in the Texas scene right now there I'd call them more Americana than I would Yeah, country. I guess
Thomas Mooney 56:52
like that's the when I say like Oklahoma songwriters better than the Texas songwriter, I'm, you know, I guess in my head, I'm excluding guys like, like Bauman not actually because like, I don't know, it's the Texas singer songwriter versus like the Texas country singer songwriter, are two different things. Just probably the same way. sure that you would say the Oklahoma songwriter is versus the it's, I guess, Texas has kind of absorbed red dirt.
Brad Rice 57:25
Yeah. But as far as like the, the jet to because Red Dirt traditionally is is not what people were calling Red Dirt now. Yeah. And it I had to kind of come to terms with that. But to me and to the guys in the stragglers and a lot of our buddies that we've been running with for a long time, Red Dirt means Bob Childers, Tom Skinner, Jimmy Lafave. Randy crouch, the red dirt Rangers. And a lot of the people that I hear using the term red dirt, I don't think they know who those bands are. Yeah. And I know that things evolve and I sound like a codger who's Santa. It's my day. But that does bother me that red dirt has been kind of usurped and bastardized, because it used to be something that was very pure. And you kind of founded by Woody Guthrie, you've mentioned him a lot today so and when when a band like the KC Donahue band gets called Red Dirt. It It makes my hair stand up a little bit. And I've got nothing against that band or any band that's out there. But it might have on the same token I don't like they call what's on country Country radio country. It's fucking soccer mom popper. Yeah, Disney shit.
Thomas Mooney 59:14
I use the term Walmart country,
Brad Rice 59:17
Walmart country, okay, bro country, whatever you want to call it. It's not country. I wrote my senior thesis. I graduated from college about a year ago. And I wrote my paper on how country music has changed from a substantive authentic art form into a more or less pile of shit. And that's not just my opinion. I believe that you can stand back and calmly extrapolate the facts which are Johnny Cash and Jimmy Rogers. And Gram Parsons had a lot more to say than Florida, Georgia line Luke Bryan. And do you have Yeah, just insert a name, I got to use the Have you seen that? It's on YouTube. There's a Nashville engineer who took like eight or nine number one hits. Yeah. And laden into Pro Tools. And he, like the beginning of the introduction is from one song. And then a quarter of the first verse is from another song. And then they just keep inserting different songs. And it's ridiculous. The only thing I think he had to do was to modulate a couple of them, then we're in different keys. But the thing that gets me the most is when you get to the guitar solo. It's so generic, and so awful. That it sounds so perfect. That if you hadn't been told that that those were six different guitar solos, you wouldn't have known.
Thomas Mooney 1:01:03
Yeah. See, I think the problem would, if you if you just had to, like, have one reason why country music has gone downhill, you can pinpoint it with this one single thing, and that is, instead of following what country music has been for the last 100 years, they followed the, the the fan that goes, I'm not a country fan, but I like insert this Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, that's what they've been chasing for. The last 15 years has been the can we get that fan? More so than I think they've isolated the their entire
Brad Rice 1:01:51
queue right. And I also think what they have done is they have taken the folks from my generation, I graduated high school in 1995. And listen to like Hootie, and the blowfish and shit like that. And they have marketed to, to my generation. And if you if you I mean like even derrius wrecker is a country artists now. Yeah. And the music isn't all that different than say like 90s not pop, but
Thomas Mooney 1:02:28
just rock like the alternative.
Brad Rice 1:02:31
Alternative rock it the instrumentation is different, but I mean even some of the same producers like Mutt Lange was a big Def Leppard. Yes sir and he produced all the Shania Twain shit. Yeah. They're more or less borrowing on the success that was made by bands like warrant and poison and remarketing it as Southern and country.
Thomas Mooney 1:03:02
Yeah. And it also goes into the anti or anti intellectualism. Yes. Like, let's talk about country roads and, like, just redneck shit. Yeah, it's like, and there's nothing wrong with all the things that are necessarily talking about. But it's one of those where rednecks, for lack of a better term, think that it's like, that's a good thing. It's like, Well, I mean, like, it's cool. But then also, you know, who was Southern too is like William Faulkner, no doubt, you know. So maybe you can also be educated in.
Brad Rice 1:03:40
Yeah, I think that goes back to the whole idiocracy prophecy.
Thomas Mooney 1:03:46
Yeah.
Brad Rice 1:03:49
And I, I don't think that that's altogether true. I just think that we've all got a bunch of new toys that we're distracted by right now. And once the shine wears off from that, I think we might kind of rein it back in. I heard a guy talking the other day, how he was saying, you know, they took food away from us for a while, and now we're kind of slowly taking that back. And they being the, you know, big brother. Yeah, what have us, but we just need to take music back. And I think it's happening I think that the internet is really fucking with record labels, his bottom line, the big ones, at least, because they're, nobody has to buy music anymore. And so now they're trying to take money from touring. Because that's truly where money is made in the music industry now, and if you're a big giant act, you can afford to You know, assign away some of your, or allow somebody to take a bigger percentage of view toering. Because you, you're told up front the chicken to make $50 million, because you're Madonna.
Thomas Mooney 1:05:14
Yeah. Let's see. That's what I said on the going back to that whole article being shared around was that since there are more indie rock, or there's just more indie bands, there's more bands in general. People were buying less records, but they're buying more of the the bottom half than the top.
Brad Rice 1:05:36
Yeah, it's the never redistribution of musical wealth. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, socialism is happening in music. Yeah. And I think that's fine. Because we've never stood to make millions anyway. We've always been of the grassroots approach. And so it's never the internet hasn't fucked with this band's bottom line. It's, it's made it. Yeah. That and just years of touring?
Thomas Mooney 1:06:07
Yeah. Going back to the, you know, you guys have been playing for almost 20 years. Now. When you first start out, you know, you, I guess, have you guys realized that you guys have taken the place of as being, instead of being the younger, up and coming band is being the
Brad Rice 1:06:26
elder statesman, if you will? Sure. And he noticed that there's nothing that's more embarrassing than seeing somebody who doesn't realize when that's happened. And maybe in Jason's case, it was easier because he went gray when he was 30. But I think that, it, it's a, it's an honor to be there, because that means to somebody that, you know, we have somehow influenced them in some way or another. And, And to me, that's why you do it is to move people and to become a part of their lives. And that the greatest compliment that I think that musicians can ever get, aside from that your song made me cry was, is that your music has helped me in this way. And I've had a lot of people come up and say, on Jason's behalf that this song or that song helped them through some of the hardest times and it's usually proud souls or, yeah, somewhere down in Texas or because those really touch people and they just connect with the authenticity and you know what he's saying? So,
Thomas Mooney 1:07:50
yeah, yeah. I was gonna ask one more question. Before we get out. Early on in your career, you guys did do a whole lot of I guess like, Bob children's songs. He did Tom Skinner songs on the records. I don't know if you see that as often anymore, like people doing unnecessarily unknown people. But like the people that were they were influenced by sure how many people were, you know, still throwing on like a guy Clark cover or, you know, something like that on records.
Brad Rice 1:08:28
Didn't do one on squelch and didn't necessarily get called out. But I had a couple of people that asked what crouch or what Bob Childers tune did you do on on this album, and I said, we didn't do one. And a couple of people kind of, you know, gave me the sideways eyes or gave us the sideways eyes. And really on squelches it just came down to time management. We straight up ran out of time. And we tracked too many songs and then couldn't mix them all. And we ended up tracking like 17 songs when we did squelch and there's I think 11 or 12 on the record, but there is a Randy crowd song on the album that we are in the process of recording right now. And I won't tell you what the name of it is, but I will tell you that is it is the trippiest most out there shit that we have ever recorded. Yeah, there was some Instagram videos that we posted of Cody pie in the voice too, on a on a steel guitar and did some crazy shit with Leslie's modulating the sound and making some noise kind of. It's a it's really neat song to begin with. And we basically just kind of went to the moon with with this one. And I'm sure some people will think, Wow, that's really weird and other people will think that's the coolest straggler song I've ever heard. So yeah, and you know, everybody's not gonna like everything. But I challenge you not to be at least interested. Bye. Bye. Yeah, ouch tins that's on. And I haven't even heard probably half of what's on there now. They've done a lot of over overdubbing. And I've been up in Oklahoma working in welding. And og go back down, probably the week after next to do percussion overdubs and then sing the harmony vocals. So yeah, I should have a better idea.
Thomas Mooney 1:10:49
Yeah. What are you guys thinking it would be, it'll be ready to be released and everything.
Brad Rice 1:10:55
Let's see, we're in May right now. Man, it'd be ambitious to say it's gonna come out this year. If it doesn't come out this year, it's gonna be early in, in 2018. Yeah. Which puts us pretty close to we tried to put something out there every couple of years. And the the idea, after we put squelch out, Jason was thinking about doing a live album. And then he, he had already had a couple of songs that he was working on, when we recorded squelch. And he just kind of kept maybe stayed in that writing mode, and ended up with just you know, more than enough material to go in. And do you have another one another studio album. So yeah, we will do another live album, I would imagine, but that might be a couple of years away. So from now, I'd say probably like nine months. Yeah. And the next one will be out and I'm not sure what it's called yet. So
Thomas Mooney 1:12:08
awesome. Well, I know you're ready to get done here. We've shaved my head right over an hour now. Okay, I'll go to let you get out and go eat and get ready. all that kind of good stuff and eat some dinner. So
well. Thank
Brad Rice 1:12:23
you so much. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you asking.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai