006: Ben Hussey

On Episode 6 of New Slang, I'm joined by Ben Hussey of Dolly Shine and Six Market Blvd. During this one, we talk about Dolly Shine, 6MB, being a pioneering voice within the Stephenville music scene, and stepping into the producing role.

Interview Transcript

Note: Transcripts aren’t always accurate since they are computer automated and haven’t been edited for spelling, grammar, etc.

Thomas Mooney 0:01

Hey everyone welcome to episode six of the new slang podcast on Thomas Mooney, the editor in chief of new slang here in Lubbock. This week's episode is sponsored by the blue light live located in the heart of the depot. This Friday, it's finally come it's the big William Clark Green Street show party. There'll be shutting down Buddy Holly right in front of the blue light and putting up a big stage on one end and flatland cavalry red Shanahan American aquarium and William Clark green will be playing that stage. Doors open at 7pm. If you want to purchase your presale tickets, go over to the blue light live.com scroll down and find the the tickets link below Will's name. This is going to be one of those rare shows that are 18 and 18 years old and older. So if you're under 21 is your one chance to get inside the blue light. The rest of this week schedule is a pretty solid one as well. Tonight, that's going to be Wednesday. It's Jim Dixon and Brian McCray. There are a couple of Lubbock songwriters Thursday it's gonna be wooden wire there a hell of a four piece blue grassy kind of band out of Austin. Fridays of course the street show with flatland, red, American and Korean and we'll call it green. And then Saturday. I believe he's making his blue light debut. It's gonna be big Joe Walker. This week's episode we sat down with Ben Hussey the bass player for Dolly shine. You know, I've known Ben for a while now, back in his six market Boulevard days when they whenever they play here in Lubbock, we'd typically go over to the castle's house after and you know drink a few beers and just talk about music and so whenever I picked him up a few weeks ago to go do this podcast wasn't much different you know his beers a little bit longer. It's a little bit more Rick Rubin style. A little bit more gray. So I don't know it was a lot of fun. If you've not checked out new slang in a while, there's a few things that might interest you. Gray Spencer in the works new record the line between it's a there's a small preview of the record over on new slang right now. It's officially out next Friday. That's gonna be the April 22. And then Amarillo songwriter, chansey bernsen. He's got a new record coming out this Friday. And it's called back in time is going to be streaming over there on the website until Friday as well. And then over there on Lonestar music's website. I have this pretty in depth interview with Dave Cobb, the Dave Cobb like one of the best producers in American music right now. Which, if you want to go check that out and you haven't yet go to Lone Star music magazine.com search for Dave Cobb or my name, Thomas Mooney and find it, you'll find some other things I've written over there, which also sometime this week, maybe today, maybe a little bit later in the week, there's gonna be a profile piece that I wrote on Dali shine as well about their new record coming out here in June. It's called walkabout we talked about the about walkabout in this interview with Ben as well. So you know, you can just do you can read that and listen to this and I don't know, have major insight on the record. We don't have a store setup on new slang just yet. We were working on that. But we do have some new new slang t shirts available. If you're here in Lubbock, you can just you know, find me somewhere and you know, I'll have the T shirts mainly on me or we can meet somewhere. I'll be at the the blue light or the William Clark Green Street show. So just find me there and you can purchase your your T shirt. But if you're outside of Lubbock, just shoot us an email over at New slang dot editors@gmail.com and we'll just we'll figure out a way to get you a T shirt. If you haven't yet go and subscribe to the new slang podcast over on iTunes. While you're there, please give us a rating and review. It'll help us out immensely. Okay, now on to the conversation with Ben Hussey about Dolly Shine and Boyd street recording and other cool music stuff.

Yeah, well, we really don't really do intros on here. So guys just talk right now. Cool. Are we recording what I just said? No, not that market. do some editing. I literally hit record right after you finish that. Beautiful, beautiful timing. Yeah, anyways, uh we're talking about this earlier, you guys went from Amarillo down to Midland back up here.

Ben Hussey 5:16

Yeah, in a van without much AC happening now. And we had a we had it for about five minutes today. And it was a very glorious five minutes. There's those first five minutes in the van where you stumble out of the hotel room and you're like, what am I doing with my life? You lay down in your seat, and then all of a sudden you get hit with this beautiful cold air. And then it went away. Again. The Lord giveth and the Lord take the van, give it in the van tickets.

Thomas Mooney 5:49

Yeah, so you have this new record coming out.

Ben Hussey 5:52

We do walk about the June 10 is the official release date. We just got all the Masters back last week. It sounds great. Sounds great. We recorded it at my studio mine just ratos studio in Stephenville which was actually that'll be the last, the last project we do in the trailer house. We're upgrading to a to a new room out of Larry Joe Taylor's ranch. And that's gonna be very, very nice. Yeah. So it was cool to kind of have this Dolly shine record because it was the first record we did it at the trailer house. Was there all Nev back two years ago or something like that. And so it's kind of like, full circle with the trailer house. And it's a good records in that on it's, it's pretty strong.

Thomas Mooney 6:43

Do you feel like this record, I mean, you weren't in the band, on that first record or anything like that is it is a different viewing the I guess them as the band, how has it changed your view of the band, going from being more producer to being bassist and producer on this new record?

Ben Hussey 7:11

You know, that's, that's the first time that I've that I've had to wear like both sets of those shoes. With the bands I was in before since six market, you know, they already had records down or we're going with other guys to record and so I would just play the parts that were on the record. And with the guys that we've produced, I've just played what's on the record, and then they go off to somebody else to play bass for them. So it's it's been kind of a strange balancing act that took me a little getting used to as far as what it means to be in the band, and then what it means to be producing the band. It's it's an interesting test of patience.

Thomas Mooney 7:54

What, uh, what do you think like, when it comes down to it? What what supersedes the other

Ben Hussey 8:02

at the end of the day, I think I think the producer role I don't want to say it's more important, but you have to make decisions. And as a basis, you just have to make decisions about a couple of things, you know, where the group is gonna go and how the pockets gonna sit. But in the producer role, Josh and I kind of, you know, hold the whole the entire record in our hands. So there was a lot of now a lot of just that, you know, holding the record and keeping everybody in line and trying to keep the themes and the tones consistent throughout the whole thing. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 8:50

I've listened to the record and it feels like this, this record. Overall, is a little bit more gritty. Yeah, there's, like in the songwriting, too. I think there's a little bit more storyteller, more going into into character, kind of

Ben Hussey 9:10

I think you're exactly right. A lot of the gritty musically is coming from from Jared and Jared felecia guitar player and what what he and I and Josh all kind of envisioned for the for the guitar tones and and how we set them up and i think i think that gets hard times only are really cool. And it's they're real good about setting setting kind of the mood for the for the lyrics. somebody the other day, a second brandy read Zune an interview for for her for something. And she called it What did you call it? grunge, grunge country. grunge band. Let's go well, I'll take that. Yeah, is it is there There's a lot of there's a lot of banks in the record. A lot of you know, there's that one song closing time that our friend Taylor Davis from Danny Gonzalez wrote and you know, the hook line is I love you, baby. But I, I love you, baby, but I hate you. And it's like, yeah, you know, you have to be able to be honest like that sometimes.

Thomas Mooney 10:20

Yeah, and that that song. We talked about it before that snakeskin boots. It's kind of like a I really thought it felt very James McMurtry ish. Little Chris Nitish. Yeah, that's probably the coolest thing you could say. It really fits the really fits, because you're saying Jared wrote that song?

Ben Hussey 10:44

Yeah, Jared. Jared wrote that song several years ago. And he's he's tried several different versions of it with different fields and different grooves. And when we were doing pre production couple weeks before we started on the record, we kind of we kind of, you know, toyed around with a couple different ways of doing it. And they would be a little too a little too one directional, or one dimensional, rather. And we just kind of stripped it down and started over like it was a brand new song. And that's how we got it to. Yeah, we we toyed with the arrangement quite a bit from what he had it I think he had maybe two chords in it. And we took it to like seven. Just kind of keep that keep the mood interesting. And once we got that set with with the groove between Johnny and I, when we started building on top of it, we were able to come up with these really cool ideas like the intro. Yeah, we did a lot of lo fi tracking of a couple different banjo parts and a mandolin part. And a couple different guitar parts. And you know, kind of just Fuzzball made him sound like old school like I want them boys. Go in there and give us Guy 30 cents recorded in his can. Yeah, sort of thing you know. And we just wanted to, from the start of that song, let you know that it's going to take you somewhere emotionally. Because it is it's lyrically it's a very emotional song. Yeah. And we wanted the music to, to represent the kind of chaos that that goes on through there.

Thomas Mooney 12:32

Yeah, there's a real Turnpike kind of vibe through it too. As far as it being a little dark and gritty, right? It kind of has like that same little rhythm as not necessarily rhythm. But same push as before the devil knows you're dead.

Ben Hussey 12:53

Oh, yeah. You know that one? And what's that other one? Oh, God, I can't think of the name of it. It's in dropped the gen smoking lies. Yeah, yeah, we've kind of it kind of has that feel to which cola works itself? But, uh, yeah, they they've done they've done a real good job of making their records. And it's, it was kind of cool to think about that, and the direction that they go and try to not necessarily mimic it, but just, you know, kind of get those fields. So it's all stuff that we really enjoy listening to, you know,

Thomas Mooney 13:34

yeah. Well, that's one of the things I've always thought about is I don't know if if it's just because artists want to don't want to admit this. Or if they, maybe, maybe it just doesn't happen. But if I was a musician, and I was like, This song, I want it to sound like this, and this and this, and give examples of, you know, right, what direction I would want to push it into. And I mean, I don't necessarily know why. Others don't want to. I maybe admit that right? Or they want I mean, maybe it's a little bit more organic than that, you know that you just pulled it from the air. Yeah, but I don't think it's a it's a bad thing to be like, I want this to sound a little bit like this and this

Ben Hussey 14:23

right now. It's, it's, I don't think it is at all because it kind of helps everyone get on the same page as far as the direction you're going. And I mean, it's all been done before anyways, so yeah, but I always I take it as a compliment as as a producer and a player like if somebody says, Oh, hey, that, you know, really sounds like that acoustic guitar tone off rumors or something. It's like Well, yeah, cool. That's what we were going for. All right. Yeah. Job well done.

Thomas Mooney 14:50

Yeah, this record to a little bit more. You feel a little bit more collaborative. As far as the songwriting goes. Yeah. I mean, you you've got a song written on Yeah,

Ben Hussey 15:00

I've got as well. I gotta say, and it's actually cool. For me, it was the first song that I wrote specifically for something. You know what I mean? Zach was compiling songs for the record. And about a week before we were going into pre Pro. And I just, I knew that he had some of the material there, but didn't have it all there as a man, I bet, I bet I could bang something out pretty quick, that would work really well on this record. And so it was kind of a challenge a challenge myself, because I knew the ideas we were going towards for the record. So I was like, Okay, let's write a song that will just fit in with these other, you know, eight, nine tracks, whatever it is. And I did, I already had the hook. I came up with a driving somewhere, you know, like, user voice memos on my phone. Keep up with all that. Yeah, I sat down in my office and, and knocked it out in about 20 minutes. And I send the lyrics to Zach. I was like, I don't really have a chord progression for this yet. As I just kind of, you know, Dali shine it. Said Alright, so, by the time they got into pre production, he'd been messing with it a little bit. And we we solidified the excuse me, we solidified the, the progressions and made some real, real cool chord choices. I'm really like the the feel of the song. hasn't really been going over live that while yet but it's a new thing. And they'll get it eventually. Oh, yeah. But there's an there's a rattlesnake, which is our first single that's been released. I think it's been doing pretty well up here. So thanks, David Wilde and, and the 1053 people kind of plug that as I cool.

Thomas Mooney 16:47

Yeah. I guess. All right. They're just gonna be censored. Yeah, right.

Ben Hussey 16:54

Now, they actually, Zack had wrote that song, probably about a year ago. And they came in and recorded it. It was pre printed pre production for what eventually became this record. But it was in the very early stages, like I said, about a year ago. And they finished that one. And we we mixed it and had it mastered and actually released it once before, as a digital download on a card that they were given out at the Laredo Taylor festival that year. So when that that day, you know, Johnny, I remember Josh and Johnny were working on the drum parts and Zach and Jared and was and Dylan Sampson was in the band at the time. The rest of us we all went and stood out in the field and with a couple guitars and some notepads. And like, Okay, we've got this, we've got this, let's tie it all together. And so that was that one was very collaborative. As far as if somebody wasn't working on dragging their part in the studio. They were out in the field with us drinking, Paphos, homemade whiskey and finishing up the lyrics. Twister knife is another song on the record that Zach and I co wrote together is one of those deals where we were, he had probably half of it. He didn't have an intro line, or a progression. And so the guys, the rest of the guys all went into town to grab something to eat and Zach and I just kind of sat there in the control room and and I started fooling around with the progression that kind of fit his melody and threw out a couple lines and he typed it up the rest of it. Yeah, yeah. That mean, there has been a lot of a lot of collaboration, which is good. It helps us all grow.

Thomas Mooney 18:46

Yeah, that song rattlesnake. That's just like straight up train song. Yeah, you know, yeah, it feels very much like, you know, just like some outlaws on horseback seeing a train go by. Right. You know, that's what, at least what it feels to me. Feels very old for the longest desert rock. Yeah, well, I

Ben Hussey 19:09

didn't have a title for it for the longest time. So it was called the desert Dune. Actually, we didn't have a title for it until the day. It shipped out the radio because they were like, Hey, you guys have to call this song something. Yeah, the Are y'all sure y'all want to just call it the desert tune? And we're like, ah, Hell, I guess we'll come up with something else. Yeah. Yeah, so if we wanted that vibe, that whole, just feel like you're by yourself and like Danny's old truck driving through the desert or something, you know. And I think we captured it pretty well. There's a lot of space there that they kind of when you when you put a lot of space in a song on a record, it leaves a lot up to the imagination of the listener. And I think I think that's a really cool thing to do, because it makes the listeners Feeling things you know?

Thomas Mooney 20:01

Yeah. It's a there's always been a lot of spacing and song trim up here, you know, like, old Terry Allen strike has always so spacey spaces. That's one of those things like space is a sound right? You know, noise is a noise in a way. So

Ben Hussey 20:22

I heard this story one time about t bone Burnett. Some guy came up to him after he had listened to a new record that D button pulled out and he goes, man, I thought you did a really great job producing that. But there's one song where I could really hurt some keys and you didn't put any keys on it. And see bongos. So you heard the keys part in your head? guy goes yeah, guys. All right. Well, I guess I did my job. Song didn't really need him.

Thomas Mooney 20:47

Yeah. Speaking of like, producing, though, overall, you and Josh have have, I guess made a partnership. A collab team? Yeah. What's, uh, what's it been like working with him

Ben Hussey 21:03

out. It's It's everything from amazing to devastating. I love I love Josh, he's my best friends now. And we, we work really well together. But really over the past year or so. It's been more of a tag team sort of thing, you know, because I'll be I'll go out on the road for a couple weeks or like, you know, I was in Europe for a couple months last year. And so then he's working on the city, and then I get back and he's like, Okay, well, I got to go out for a month with will. So just, Hey, good to see this where I'm at on this record. You know, yeah, we'll catch up when I get back. And that's, it's, it's nice, because we're busy. And we're just we're both going whenever we're not on the road, we've got that going pretty much full time now. Which is why it's gonna be nice to upgrade also. But he's, he's a whiz. You know, he's just a whiz kid, in play his ass off on anything you put in his hands, really. And so watching him work is, as he knew he knew a lot more about recording than I did. And then I still do from, he just has grown up doing it. And he really nerds out on it. So we, I've learned a lot just from sitting in the room, watching him do things watching how he does things, watching how he structures things. And it's been a lot of fun to learn, you know, we started we decided to do it, when, when six markets split up, we're like, oh, we thought you know, that was gonna be our band. Yeah, her, you know, what forever. And it was about we both kind of realize, Oh, shit, these gigs can go away. So we need to do something that isn't going to go away that we're in complete control of at all times. And so we got some money together and bought some gear and, you know, just one right to work. And it's been, it's been a blast. I really enjoyed doing it. It's, you know, I always say like, live shows are great, live shows are fun. And they capture a moment that will never exist again. And it's really special. But when you're making a record, you're making like a lashing our project, you know?

Thomas Mooney 23:21

Yeah. Yeah. The the record that you were the EP that you guys did with Brandon.

Ben Hussey 23:27

That's hands down my favorite. I think that no offense to the other guy.

Thomas Mooney 23:32

I think the first thing the first thing whenever I was listening to it was it felt very shiny, very shimmering, like an AD AD style, like petty kind of way

Ben Hussey 23:44

on, you know, that's, that's what we're all pretty into. Josh and Brandon get into the ad stuff a lot more than I do. But the sounds in those towns are very 80s. And that's, you know, that's hip now.

Thomas Mooney 24:00

But that EP is just a it's one of those, like, just a perfect five song set. Yeah.

Ben Hussey 24:07

Yeah. Well, you know, in the real The, the glue behind that record was having JCL donya come in and play drums on it. Yeah, Jay. Were all he does a lot of production work also, and we're trying to work together as much as we possibly can now, especially now that we're gonna have a room where we can accommodate a full band for your live dragging. And all that but, you know, Brandon and Jay, go go back real far from being up here together, you know, and that's Josh and I first met Jay when he was playing with will appear, you know, yeah. And we just always get along real well. And when it came to actually work in the studio together, everybody just jelled real well, because, you know, we're all buddies. We've all known each other for seven, eight years. And We set up and me and Jay were in one room and Josh and Brandon were in the other and just said, Alright, let's start rolling. See what happens?

Thomas Mooney 25:06

Yeah, it was just the four of you guys on the entire record. Parker,

Ben Hussey 25:11

I think you got in on that, didn't you? On Brandon's record? And she sings some harmonies. jp was there. There was one day Parker and JP just kind of showed up. I don't know where and like, Hey, cool. Let's do some harmonies. I don't know if we can. I got credit for doing background vocals on that record, but I don't think we got any of mine either. Which is fine. Because there was another record we did that I didn't get credit for the background vocals on so it kind of comes out in the wash. Yeah. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 25:48

Speaking of like new stuff, though, circle Simpson recorded that Nirvana cover.

Ben Hussey 25:54

Yeah, they were here. They were playing that in the band. The other day I was asleep. I woke up about halfway through it. So I don't really have a good frame of reference on and I've been meaning to check it out. I saw this one guy that posted something saying I think he said Tori Amos is the only person that has governed Nirvana and not ruined it. And he said he still stands by that. Like I said, I've only heard half of it. So yeah. What I heard those sound cool. I forgot that.

Thomas Mooney 26:25

She covered that. Smells Like Teen Spirit. Oh, yeah,

Ben Hussey 26:29

that's right. That was

Thomas Mooney 26:33

I mean, I don't even know. I can't even think of anybody else who's covered many Nirvana pieces. I thought it was it was different than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, I thought after he released those first two songs. I thought it was gonna be really garage country. And in my opinion, this cover went like Sergeant Pepper's death. Beatles kind of who is uh, was he working with Dave on it? They say that surgical priests this record all by himself, really? like Dave Cobb was busy doing something else. And Sergio was apparently just, I think I got it or something. I mean, I wasn't there anything. But have you listened to a compilation of his yet? Yeah. I think it's pretty good. The What's his brother's name, Brent. I don't know. I think he's I think his brother's name is Brent Cobb. He's got a song on there. I think that's probably my favorite song gone on the record. Anderson east as a great song. Yeah, I'd never heard of Anderson East before, and then heard him on there and check it out. I guess he has another record. But then like Morgan, Stapleton, she does that you're my sunshine. Yeah. with Chris on it. And that that's just like, probably one of the best, most beautiful, dark pieces I've ever heard. Even just like transitions of a song I've ever seen. Yeah,

Ben Hussey 28:02

they still have it. Uh, there's some link where you can listen to it. That's all available to you now.

Thomas Mooney 28:07

Yeah, I'm sure there is.

Ben Hussey 28:09

I'll check it out. You know, it's, I've been reading a lot about Dave Cobb. And a lot of a lot of you talking about working with Josh a lot of like, the way he approaches making records and his ideas and how he interacts with his with the bands he's working with. So a lot of there's a lot of Josh in that. And I don't you know, want to compare the two but it's kind of like working from what I've read. Working with Josh is like working with Texas, Dave Cobb in a trailer house.

Thomas Mooney 28:42

Yeah. I want to be interviewing Dave Monday. Really? Yeah, that's pretty cool, man. I know, as you said that hard work. Now there's a lot of kiddos there's a lot of emails. Yeah. But yeah, it's gonna be on you're gonna have to do like a phone or something. Yeah, that's cool. Find me after Nashville. Yeah. No, but uh, yeah, it's gonna be on Lone Star music. So I'm sure whenever this comes out, it may already be out. So if not, you can go back and, and read and write. But yeah. What What else? Have you been listening to you lately?

Ben Hussey 29:24

You know, I got back into Fred Eagle Smith, pretty heavy. And listen to a lot of Fred. He was with a guy I used to listen to Friday deals with all the fucking time and I love reading Will Smith. And then one night, I was driving home from a gig. You know, with the I got twins on the way you know, and so I have to get home as much as I possibly can anymore. So I was driving home from from Houston, I think is where I was. And you know, it's the middle of night. It's like 334 o'clock in the morning. And I run out a podcast to listen to that's mostly what I'm driving. I listen to these podcasts. Comedy Bang Bang. In the tipster comedy, I get a kick out of it. That's really loving listening. I've man I found one the other day that was Joe pug is doing a podcast. Oh, really? Yeah. The second episode was him and James and Marjorie. The first one was him and Joey Lee. I haven't listened to that one yet. But the one with embroidery was real cool. But anyways, I'm driving, I guess it was getting around waco. And I was like, man, I need I need something to get me going. And so I you know, there's that Apple Music thing. And I started looking through that and I was like, ah, Freddie Hill Smith, my old friend. I remember this guy, and just went heavy into a Friday. Will Smith binge.

Thomas Mooney 30:42

Yeah. The, I guess. Parker, they play here like, once every couple years.

Ben Hussey 30:50

I remember. The last time they released a man that guy's work in these. And I saw him. First time I saw him was in stockyards at that place 30 armadillo. And Scott Copeland was opened up for him. So I'm just walking down exchange street with my buddy looking for something to do is like a Sunday or something. I go, oh, Copeland's plan will pop in there, you know, mess with him a little bit. And the lady stops me at the door. And she's like, it's $25. I was like, Scott Copeland, you're out of your damn mind. Is he has no now he's just opening for red Eagle Smith and saw whipped out of 50. And I was like, we're staying here, man. We're taking this up. It's an interesting show. He's Yeah, he's a character.

Thomas Mooney 31:39

Yeah. Last time they were here. I know. There wasn't many people up there. It was like a Tuesday or Wednesday. And they had, like, they're just gonna kind of get mad at people in the crowd for words, and they hadn't, you know, like, some clothes set up for sale. kind of looked a little Gypsy it did not merge like actual, like Freddy Goldsmith clothing, like, female clothing, right? But it's fine. Yeah, this is I don't know, like a thrift shop or something. But

Ben Hussey 32:14

he makes he makes interesting musician choices in his bands. I was I was watching a bunch of YouTube videos. And a lot of times his band just isn't very good. It's like the Neil Young Crazy Horse thing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's what makes it part of the show, too. As fun show.

Thomas Mooney 32:41

Yeah. What what's your What's your favorite Neil Young record? Oh, harvest. Well, I mean, the commercial answer. Yeah. What's better than you mean? Like? Well, my favorite record is not one of the well known ones. It's right. Um, Harvest Moon maybe?

Ben Hussey 33:04

Yeah, well, that is good. Right? Well, yeah. You know how people are going to see what is a rust never sleeps how's it gonna react to

Thomas Mooney 33:15

like if he said like react or something like that that are that is that that should he did with Divo. I don't remember if that is or not, but it's an 80s. Record.

Ben Hussey 33:27

Oh, I filled in last weekend with the damn coils. They needed a bass player and I had the weekend off. And we were playing a show and we used to when I played with them a couple years ago. We did out on the weekend. Yeah, that opening Drag off harvest. And we played it again this past weekend. And it just really started thinking about that record again, because I usually listen to that record non stop. So it's a really strong record.

Thomas Mooney 33:59

Oh, it is like out on the weekend. Such that's to me as much as like eagles define California rock or LA rock out on the weekend. Like that, to me should have been the the California said Yeah, right. Right. But harvest like on harder gold. I I still think like one of the top 10 moments of recorded music is when, like James Taylor and Linda ronstan come in on the harmonies.

Ben Hussey 34:32

I read that they did that in a closet. Really. They were like they had to get down on their knees and they were both in the same closet together and they were just screaming those parts into the microphone. Hmm. I also I read that. I read a biography on Neil Young several years ago. And they were they were talking about when they made that record. He brought in all the players and he knew all the players but he would make them play different instruments. So like his guitar player is playing steel guitar on that record, because he wanted steel guitar on the record, but he didn't want a steel guitar player on the record, you know what I mean? Yeah. So he was making really interesting choices to, to get those sounds that record God by just doing that by saying, Hey man, you play guitar, we'll play this steel guitar instead. And you hear those parts and just the the rawness of them is really cool, because that's all those guys know how to do with the instruments that Neil put in their hands.

Thomas Mooney 35:30

Yeah. What? I guess like the backing band, either I can't hear what did they call like the stray gators or something like that? Yeah, something like that. Which I guess is I don't even know if they did anything else for him. If they weren't, I don't even know. What's the story behind it. I can't if any of those guys moved on to. I can't

Ben Hussey 35:55

really remember another guitar player that I'm thinking of his name was like jagged knee or something like that. And he he produced several records for Neil after that. And was just working as in one of those la producers. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the other guys. Now that was, that was the guy that played with them with Crosby, Stills and Nash. I think his name is Dallas Taylor was a drummer, and I think they all just went on to do session work mostly.

Thomas Mooney 36:27

Yeah, I can't really remember. The Crosby, Stills and Nash. Did you hear like they? I guess a couple of weeks back. Apparently, Graham Nash told David Crosby to just leave them the fuck alone. They're never gonna do anything else again. Which, you know, they're old. Their time has done is, I'm sure, though, like generation. I don't know in 2020. We'll see another Yeah. Right. Did you ever watch that a documentary with them? About like their reunion shows? Now

Ben Hussey 37:03

do I bet it's a trip though. It's I turned it off. As always, I can't ever think about, well, I can't ever think about anything without thinking about the Simpsons also. And something that they have done that. I remember, you know, remember, Phil Hartman's characters, Lionel hutz, the attorney, Yeah, apparently he was a recovering alcoholic, and David Crosby was a sponsor. He runs out of the courtroom at one point. Nice call. He says, David, I'm tempted. Simpsons, David Cross. Laurie that cracks me up.

Thomas Mooney 37:44

Yeah, the, I don't know, part of partly why I turned it off was because like, they're all just, they were just so old. Yeah. And I hear a lot of people always make fun of like David Crosby for like, letting himself go. Right. Something like that. But those people have not seen Stephen Stills. You know, is he in pretty bad shape now? Well, he just like, I don't know, this documentary is probably like 10 years old. So. But like Stephen Stills? You know, he's the fat guy on stage. Not David Crosby. But uh,

Ben Hussey 38:24

yeah, that is that book I was talking about the new young book talks about Stephen Stills a lot. And she's a Texas guy. Right, but he didn't. The the author of this book didn't make Steven out to be the easiest guy in the world to get on with. I don't know, I wasn't there. But yeah.

Thomas Mooney 38:44

I don't know. It's a it's one of those things where all those guys are. Like, right now, is the first time when those first second generations of rock stars are actually, if they made it out of the 70s You know, they're getting an old age right now. Now, those guys are dropping like flies, which is, I think, you know, if we, if we took it out of, if we put it within the context of that, it's not very surprising, but you know, it's hitting people pretty hard as far as people dying off, you know, is there been a rock star death that hit you, man, it wasn't.

Ben Hussey 39:26

It wasn't a rock star death, but Chuck Pyle died. And I mean, he's a rock star in his own right. And I've gotten a chance to hang out with him several times over the past 10 years or so. And when when he died, that really, that really messed me up for a while. I lost sleep for a couple days. And it just kind of reevaluated a lot of who I was and what I was doing, because of because of that and because who he was So like at the time, actually, Josh and I were discussing, making, making a record for me. And I put all plans for that on hold. Because Chuck's death just kind of really made me reevaluate myself as a writer. Yeah. And I said, you know, we'll get we'll get to my record when we get to my record, but the songs aren't there yet. And since then, I've been trying to not necessarily restructure things in a way that Chuck would have done them, but do something that he would be proud of, I guess.

Thomas Mooney 40:45

Yeah. That extra filter of as far as making sure that the songs are strong and every, you know,

Ben Hussey 40:54

no throwaway lines is that's words. That's what he would do. That's, that's how his songs are all. They're all structured perfectly. No gray melodies, killer killer guitar bars, the guy was like four different fucking guitar players and one. Yeah, we'd be sitting there walking this ridiculous baseline with these, you know, simple triads that would lead into these melodic rounds. I don't know I did it. I sit there and try and just get my mind blown every time. So yeah, that that got to me. It's so it's so good to me. He was just he was a really sweet guy. And he died fly fishing. So I mean, that's cool. That's a good way to go. Yeah. You know,

Thomas Mooney 41:42

yeah, it's, uh, other been fly fishing.

Ben Hussey 41:45

So I haven't either, but he's, he's got all the time. So like, for him, it's like you either gonna die with a guitar in your hand or a fly rod in your hand. Yeah. I think you'd be could have chose us would have been it's two options, you know?

Thomas Mooney 41:57

Yeah. follow your bliss. Right. Right. So yeah. My 30 some strange, happy thought. hypothetical questions out there. Shoot. Okay. Zombie Apocalypse happens. And you have to like, follow one singer songwriter. Who's gonna be like your leader, your leader of your, I guess, clan? Who you know, choosing? That's a really good question. based off of like, their songs. They're off there.

Ben Hussey 42:28

I'm either. I'd either have to go for it. Eagle Smith or Chris Knight. Yeah. Yeah. I think both of them have traveled enough to know know how to get around real well, and, you know, I think Chris nights probably killed some people. So you know.

Thomas Mooney 42:49

Think about like Chris Knight is a in the in the zombie apocalypse. He wouldn't have to like hide bodies anymore, right. Just cut that part out completely. But what about you? I've always said Ray Wylie Hubbard, yeah, I feel like yeah, it'd be a good one. I was talking with Drew Kennedy about this. Well, and he said, Well, he thinks like, Ray would be a little too much of a pacifist. Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point. And I'm like, Well, I mean, I think it's still it's still be a good leader. That's, that's my hope. Yeah. would be and I'm sure he would have sounded sound advice. Right. In any in every situation.

Ben Hussey 43:37

He probably tried to find the balance. Yeah. You know, try to get everybody to live harmoniously. Yeah. through, you know, through one chord group songs. Yeah. Drew said James McMurtry because oh, man, I wouldn't like I love I love and Mercury's hands down my favorite, favorite songwriter. But I would not follow him in the zombie. He wouldn't. I don't think he would let anybody follow him in the zombie apocalypse. He's a loner. He's a wolf. I think he would just head for the fucking hills and say, Man, good luck to all y'all. I saw this coming.

Thomas Mooney 44:14

archery is a philosophy on this was that was that James has a lot of artillery a lot. Yeah, that is true. You know, that is true by the big gun guy. Yeah, that's that's actually part of the thing though, is maybe don't choose James just because the whole aspect of one day waking up and him being gone. Yeah. And you took all everything.

Ben Hussey 44:40

You put James and Ray together, you know, that might be a pretty good, pretty good team. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 44:48

Honor, I don't know. I don't know if they've ever written songs together. I don't know if James being Richard does. Too much CO writing.

Ben Hussey 44:53

As you know, I don't think he does have followed his career pretty extensively and never really seen mention any of the Yeah. I think Tim Holt might have a couple co writes with them. Yeah. Tim says, sound guy and guitar player and tour manager. I think he got credit on a couple of things.

Thomas Mooney 45:16

Yeah. I back in college I, I interviewed him one time. And it was before calf raw, and it was at the amphitheatre and so I went back there and like, really like one of the first interviews I've done, like did in person with a musician. And it was just so intimidating, like, sitting there. In one of those back rooms. They're all drinking wine. And, like, obviously, not a wine Oh, by any means. And I was just like, oh god, this is you guys. You don't have a beer. So like, we went and sat outside and did an interview out there. And I don't know. Was there art? I spelt the one

Ben Hussey 46:04

yeah, that's what he spills worn a lot. So don't feel too bad about that. So I'm kick wine all over his pedal board on several occasions. I went out. I was playing with Johnny Burke. And we we open for McMurtrie for for about 30 days is mean. And Ryan Thorpe and Aaron Stanfield, back and up Johnny. And that was the most like, nervous I've ever been on a tour because I didn't want to like fanboy out on my mercury. I mean, I wanted to Yeah, really bad, but I didn't want to you know, and we were in Asbury Park. And we were talking about how they used to come up to New Jersey back in the 80s. And he was telling me about that. I don't know if I should finish the story.

Thomas Mooney 46:51

You can finish it after Yeah, after we stopped recording this.

Ben Hussey 46:54

There wasn't a bathroom in the greenroom. But there was a bottle of wine.

Thomas Mooney 47:02

Didn't make mercury like opener for Mellencamp for a while.

Ben Hussey 47:07

Yeah, Mellencamp produced his first record. His dad was working on a screenplay for a movie. And john was doing the music for the movie. And so Larry kind of slid him a demo tape and was like, hey, check out my kids if he's got some songs in this movie. And he Mellencamp called Larry back. I was like, Hey, your sounds really good. He doesn't need to be doing anything for this movie. send them out to Indiana and I'll produce a record for him. So that first record, I was actually just listening to it today on the way up here. too long in the wasteland is Mellencamp and his his road band back in mercury. Yeah. And they got some songs.

Thomas Mooney 47:57

I think Mellencamp is honestly really underrated as a songwriter.

Ben Hussey 48:02

And I've always tell you stuff that uh yeah,

Thomas Mooney 48:07

I mean, like Tom Petty gets a lot of credit for for pushing heartland rockin away, and it's all deserved, but like Mellencamp like pink houses and yeah, roll down. Those have a have a good sound. Yeah, I there may be a little bit more dated than a Tom Petty stuff. Like they definitely feel a little bit more 80s Yeah. But I think that's the thing

Ben Hussey 48:35

like is that he did kind of he created that 80s fuckin snare drum sound you know, but yeah, but Petey was able to transcend that as yeah transcend generations and I don't think Mellencamp really is done a good job of that. What the fuck do I know?

Thomas Mooney 48:56

JOHN Melaka I don't know. He's, uh, he's got a couple of his new records are more like country folk kind of stuff.

Ben Hussey 49:05

I haven't. Yeah, I haven't checked it out. I shouldn't be talking about it. If I haven't.

Thomas Mooney 49:10

Well, I mean, some new stuff at all right. But I've listened through you. They're, I mean, they're okay. They're like the same. It's one of those things about any anybody who gets old and starts making records? Like, how do you how do you not become a character of yourself? You know, yeah, yeah. Something that everyone's had trouble with. Even Dylan Springsteen, right. The only guy who like I feel never really has done that is Leonard Cohen. Colin's always just been. So he's always and I think that's probably the main reason on that is because even though he was young making these records, he wasn't that young. Like going first record. He's already in his 30s. So In a lot of ways, his first records are already like old man records. If that makes sense, yeah,

Ben Hussey 50:06

does the thing like as fans, you think it's our fault that they start to feel that way that they might become? Would you? What was the phrase you use a puppet of yourself? Yeah, like a care character of yourself? Yeah. Like, do you think that we as fans, put these expectations on them to be a certain thing?

Thomas Mooney 50:27

I think it's that I think it's also just, once you're that big, you're on, on on a label, you know, a major label, right? And so you have to think about, like, all the people there. They're employing, right. So it's not just like them making money. It's like, everyone who's going on these tours. That is they're making all their money based off of this specific person playing music, right, which I mean any of those guys could like Springsteen, anytime he goes out, it's not like he's playing just new material. He's doing the hits. He's playing three fucking hours of music. And he's going through born in the USA Born to Run right so

Ben Hussey 51:12

he obviously could just do that. He has he wanted Yeah, and there's there's some guys that do that. But I think guys like spring singer always wanting a little more. Yeah, out of themselves as artists wanting to push that. But it's, it's strange, because sometimes they try to, like, fit into the times, and what's going on around them. That doesn't work. So well.

Thomas Mooney 51:39

Yeah. It's like a, I can't remember who it was. Oh, I know. It's it is Springsteen. If you look at Springsteen's like born in the USA, there's like some scent on it and stuff. And it's obviously because it's it came out in 84 like thriller came out in 82. And, you know, Van Halen 1984 came out in 84. Right, and as like that little it's an you know, it's more than the USA, by all means is a pop record. Yeah, totally. And so that, like, there's a little synth on like, like, I want, I'm on fire, and you know, and to me that it just pushes you back into the 80s with right. I think there's some stuff with Dylan that Dylan had that his 80s Records feel very 80s Yeah, there was I think like, like the the record Oh, mercy, I believe.

Ben Hussey 52:35

Oh, mercy. That was more like what's that guy's name in wall? Yeah, he produced that one, I believe. What's the one that's got Brownsville girl on it?

Thomas Mooney 52:48

Is that not Oh, mercy?

Ben Hussey 52:51

I don't think so. I can't I can't recall off the top of my head. It's like a fucking 11 minute song. He co wrote with z Vaughn.

Thomas Mooney 53:03

Well, I'll look it up real quick. Okay. Oh, see? It's a knockout loaded there. Yeah,

Ben Hussey 53:13

yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, those are feel sad songs. I don't know the 80s was a bad time. I don't know.

Thomas Mooney 53:25

I still think the 80s is underrated, man. Like, maybe not as far as great songwriters. Yeah, but like bands like I don't know like the Smith's Yeah. Won't be the replacement

Ben Hussey 53:40

that you had people. You also had people doing really shitty shit. Well, yeah, really shady shit and then really cool shit like that. Or like, guitar town? Yeah. All those guys.

Thomas Mooney 53:51

I forget what like Ronnie Krauss stuff. Even like George straights. 80s records are there. They're a little more honkytonk than the 90 stuff but in my opinion, that is what makes them great. Yeah,

Ben Hussey 54:06

yeah, yeah, totally. As I was pre pre pop as far as country music is concerned, yeah. As in when the 90s game that's when it became pop, you know?

Thomas Mooney 54:24

My theory on on what good 90s country was really like three things. One being Shania Twain being called country music. That's a that's partly like Dave Martinez told me about that. And I was like, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, too. It's not necessarily a naughty thing. But uh, after 911 happened. We got real patriotic in our country music like Toby Keith kind of shit. And Imani is saying like that's necessarily bad. What is rapidly growing Would what what is happening though is like these guys it's not a far leap from being real patriotic do what's what what else is American? Yeah. Oh, back roads, dirt roads you got you can obviously go from there and say that thought it's not too far of a leap. So I said three things but I think I might go and Greg Perry here and forgetting the third right thing. I think it's just those two. Yeah, we're coming up on like 15 minutes here.

Ben Hussey 55:35

A lot of people want to people blame Garth Brooks for a lot of that too. I don't I've never had a problem with Garth Brooks.

Thomas Mooney 55:42

I think Garth is great.

Ben Hussey 55:45

I thought it was weird that they would, you know, which I guess like the stage show wise. He did. Yeah. He changed the the show aspect. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney 55:54

smashing guitars. pyrotechnics and, yeah, but like a lot of his later stuff like the late 90s and early 2000s that kind of like a Yeah, like, much too young. Or like the river. rodeo like all that stuff is really great. Great. And also very underrated about Garth Brooks is that he co wrote a lot of that stuff. Yeah, right. Right. You know, people always bitch about people not writing their own music. I mean, at least he he was he had a hand in it. But anyways, where are we at? We're about 15 minutes in you want to play a song? Yeah, sure. All right, well, let's do that.

Ben Hussey 56:42

So I get this tune. There's three songs that I'm that are going through my head right now. One of them again remember what it's about. The other one I kind of wrote about being on tour with a couple of guys are assholes. I decided that I want to be the only asshole in the group. I think I'll play that one. Last night I tried to beat the devil. I thought I had the trick of mass destruction I thought you were on the level I lost my answer was you wouldn't I hear your voice will never to clear mumbled and jumbled slack out there this time but in my head right here Don't call me louder. Carry me down carry me down with the last one lonely roll carry me down carry me down let the fairing man take cried out for loneliness to save me. I got it tattooed across my chest last shot of everything holy and looking back I thought I knew me best carry me down carry me down where the last lonely rule carry me down carry me down with the ferry man take you on around you claim to be ragging 90 down. Or it's more like dragon to my will stretch and paper thin the better still, you play some better than me and carry me down. Carry me down with lost in the lonely role. Carry me down. Carry me down let the fairy man take his

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